mike_va 0 Posted June 12, 2011 Did indoor testing in the last post of this title. Indoors they did not appear that different, aside from the Bosch feeling like a quality unit and having 12V/24VAC capability. Camera is a Bosch LTC0355, with what is probably a non-IR corrected lens. Outdoors is where I really see a difference, the indoor case must make the light more diffuse as it bounces off things. Tree is about 10 ft from the camera, and the left side of the pic is pre-lit if you will with a 23W flood. It's light is being blocked by the roof of the porch. Illuminators were placed 8 ft to the right of the camera (as viewed from the back). The EX12 is the wide angle with 10 ft of range. With the EX12 you can clearly see both trees in the center of the pic. On the ebay unit we moved it around also, and you can clearly see the spotlight effect. The Bosch provides nice even light. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEANHAWG 1 Posted June 12, 2011 How much was the Bosch EX12? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike_va 0 Posted June 12, 2011 Same one as before, around 240-270 new google (I think it was less before somehow). Posted mainly to show the difference in coverage. Hope to get time to post some results in the next few weeks of units I've collected over the last few months, CNB MIR1000, Raytec 100. Wish you were in the neighborhood with that ebay large unit you bought. Here's the link to the old topic viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24084 The ebay unit is so much of a spotlight (and not at the center) that it might be hard to get even coverage even if more ebay units were deployed. Makes tweaking camera settings easier. Playing around with the larger units it is possible to reduce the AGC (on reason I love the Bosch 495 and even my P3344) to reduce the whiteout effect. I wonder if that is how they do it on those CNB's, looking at the histogram in software and adjust the AGC? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted June 12, 2011 I used the EX12 before, but its really only for small areas like a front door. The price new is ridiculous now though, there are so many other options for that short distance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike_va 0 Posted June 12, 2011 I used the EX12 before, but its really only for small areas like a front door.The price new is ridiculous now though, there are so many other options for that short distance. Yes, I would not pay that price. Nice little package though, and very even coverage. Does what it says for distance (maybe a bit more) which is more than some these days. The way it is built was not set up very well for manufacturing. E.g. the board inside is held on 2 standoffs under the board, so that when you loosen the screws they fall out. Also the board inside has a small heatsink to the regulator. Why? There is no airflow inside (completely sealed). The thermal path is through one of the standoffs... Take off the back panel and try to put it back on and you'll be a few minutes trying to get the photocell lined up again. Also kind of bizarre they spec as 12V/24V, which I expected to be like the Bosch cameras i.e. plug it in. Nope, internal there are two connections: one for 12VDC (through a protection diode) and one for 24VAC (through a bridge rectifier). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted June 12, 2011 Also kind of bizarre they spec as 12V/24V, which I expected to be like the Bosch cameras i.e. plug it in. Nope, internal there are two connections: one for 12VDC (through a protection diode) and one for 24VAC (through a bridge rectifier). Thats how most the Extreme CCTV products were. Maybe its because they draw more current with 12VDC than 24VAC .. not sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike_va 0 Posted June 12, 2011 Thats how most the Extreme CCTV products were.Maybe its because they draw more current with 12VDC than 24VAC .. not sure. My best guess is the circuit couldn't take the extra voltage drop in the 12V case of two diodes effectively, but they still wanted some protection for reverse hookup in the 12V case. Could've just used Schottky diodes to make a bridge but that would have added another dollar to the part cost. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted June 12, 2011 Thats how most the Extreme CCTV products were.Maybe its because they draw more current with 12VDC than 24VAC .. not sure. My best guess is the circuit couldn't take the extra voltage drop in the 12V case of two diodes effectively, but they still wanted some protection for reverse hookup in the 12V case. Could've just used Schottky diodes to make a bridge but that would have added another dollar to the part cost. Maybe they didnt have those diodes back then or they weren't stable enough at the time. I doubt a dollar would have made a diff so has to be good reason. I never had a problem with it though, Id just tie it into the appropriate input. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike_va 0 Posted June 12, 2011 Maybe they didn't have those diodes back then or they weren't stable enough at the time.I doubt a dollar would have made a diff so has to be good reason. I never had a problem with it though, Id just tie it into the appropriate input. As an engineer, I can tell you they may have gotten it to a certain point and someone said ship it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EarlT 0 Posted June 12, 2011 As an engineer, I can tell you they may have gotten it to a certain point and someone said ship it... Or like I am familiar with. Engineers say, we can make one of these if you give us two years to develop. Management says you have 6 months, and heads will roll if you don't deliver. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted June 12, 2011 Maybe they didn't have those diodes back then or they weren't stable enough at the time.I doubt a dollar would have made a diff so has to be good reason. I never had a problem with it though, Id just tie it into the appropriate input. As an engineer, I can tell you they may have gotten it to a certain point and someone said ship it... Theyve been making them for at least 10 years now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike_va 0 Posted June 12, 2011 As an engineer, I can tell you they may have gotten it to a certain point and someone said ship it... Or like I am familiar with. Engineers say, we can make one of these if you give us two years to develop. Management says you have 6 months, and heads will roll if you don't deliver. There is that too. Also they may have made for 10 years, but if something "works" you don't get do a redesign... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted June 12, 2011 There is that too. Also they may have made for 10 years, but if something "works" you don't get do a redesign... With Extreme CCTV, their EX82 10 years ago worked great, they redesigned it dozens of times since that as I had several different versions from them over the years and trust me, their first versions were the best and lasted the longest, while the newer ones died out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike_va 0 Posted June 12, 2011 With Extreme CCTV, their EX82 10 years ago worked great, they redesigned it dozens of times since that as I had several different versions from them over the years and trust me, their first versions were the best and lasted the longest, while the newer ones died out. Interesting, also part of the reason (aside from cost) that redesign/improvement is generally minimized. Sometimes redesign is finding a lower cost way, sometimes fixing problems, sometimes end of life parts they can't get. Rarely because an engineer has thought of a way to be slightly more clever though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted June 13, 2011 The EX26 LED ... now thats a great mid range IR ... after that was the UF100 but it was best to bypass that right to the UF500, that lit up a driveway like it was day light, hundreds of feet. Bosch in their idiocy have discontinued most of those now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EarlT 0 Posted June 13, 2011 Bosch in their idiocy have discontinued most of those now. I've seen that one too. Company says X division is only making a million a year. Lets merge the technology, close the division, and drop the things that don't sell in large numbers. Years later, people still talk about how stupid the move was and how they wish they had that division's profits again. Don't bother asking me how I know. It's just too painful to relive ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted June 13, 2011 Bosch in their idiocy have discontinued most of those now. I've seen that one too. Company says X division is only making a million a year. Lets merge the technology, close the division, and drop the things that don't sell in large numbers. Years later, people still talk about how stupid the move was and how they wish they had that division's profits again. Don't bother asking me how I know. It's just too painful to relive ... Yep, and with Extreme, the EX82 was their best product overall. They discontinued it but brought out an IP version called the EX82 IP. Only other non IP Extreme camera is the EX30 which has a 5-50mm lens. So I check the specs on the EX82 IP, it SAYS it has ethernet AND bnc outputs .. So im thinking great, client doesnt care its $500 more than the non IP version was, just wants it for their DVR ... but there is no way "I" am promising them its going to have that output when it costs so much and I havent used it yet, so I tell them have the Bosch Distributor they are dealing direct with out of Florida (sigh), have them confirm it - get this, the Bosh Distributor could not promise, they said they dont know. So the client ordered the narrower EX30. Sucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted June 13, 2011 So far I have been very happy with Raytec. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
