IP Residential System Design w/Pictures, Time to upgrade

[EOppie 0]

Hey everyone. First of all, thanks to all of the expert knowledge here. I discovered this forum about a week ago, and have been trying to cram as much information as I wish I had a year ago into my head

 

Location is a small home in central Florida.

 

Goal of the system is primarily for exterior monitoring/recording of home. There has been an increase in minor vandalism such as egging, irrigation system damage, trash/debris being thrown, and landscapes being damaged. Ideally I would like to be able to capture vehicles and persons that are in the area of the home during both daytime and nighttime hours. As far as ambient light at night, the neighborhood has streetlights, and my porch lights stay on all night.

 

I understand that for my budget, I am not going to go with a facial recognition or license plate caliber system.

 

Currently I have been running Low End Panasonic IP Cameras, which I know will win the fisher price award on here. I have a BL-C1A in both the kitchen and living room, and are perfectly happy with them. I am not really looking for anything of quality inside.

 

For the exterior, I have a BL-C10A that is aimed out the front window. I am looking to upgrade this camera due to wanting better picture quality.

 

For recording, I have a dedicated PC running Blue Iris which I have been happy with, however have been looking into other solutions based on this forum.

 

Main concern once again is the front of the structure. I am currently debating camera locations, and I feel I may need to end up with multiple. Other homes of the same model have a single dome camera under the front porch, on the left side of the structure. This seems to work relatively well, I included a shot of what I can currently see from the window.

 

I am proposing putting a camera above the porch as others have done, as well as install another camera under the eve on the right hand side of the residence. I need to get up under the eve and look, as when the tree is in full bloom, I imagine this will be partially blocked.

 

Here are some images of the area:

 

Front of property.

 

Front of property, showing the sidewalk area, taken from the street. As you can see there are three trees that can cause some issues.

 

Current view I normally leave the front camera on.

 

Rear Garage. Proposed camera location under eve on left side of garage, aimed over the driveway towards fence.

 

Rear Garage/Backyard. Proposed camera location under furthermost eve on right side of roofline, above porch area. Camera aimed over backyard/fence towards driveway.

 

Another shot of the rear area, showing side yard as well.

 

 

Rear Garage showing opposite side yard.

 

 

For gear, I have been looking into a ACTi TCM-1231 or GeoVision MFD110 for under the eves. I also have been looking at used Axis Gear as well. I am open to recommendations, however this should give an idea on price range.

 

All will be run back to the structured wiring panel with Cat6, and will be connected to a POE switch.

 

Next door, our neighbor had a local installer put in an Axis 216FD above the porch, and elsewhere in the neighborhood a different installer put in an Axis M3204 in the same location. I find it interesting that both of these are mounted outside, however are indoor cameras. Experts correct me if I am wrong!

 

Thoughts would be appreciated. I am looking to acquire the gear within one month.

 

-Eric

[skane 0]

If the incidents are happening when you are home (i.e. night) and the punks are entering properties to vandalize, outdoor motion detectors might be a better investment. Optex makes some good wireless outdoor motion detector kits.

[EOppie 0]

Thanks for the response.

 

I travel a fair amount for work and I think that many of these are done by "drive by eggings" so a motion detector put in the street would give many false alarms.

 

For a property intrusion alarm they make sense, however I don't think that will happen in this situation. I am really looking to simply upgrade the camera system.

 

I will check into the Optex recommendation though, hey I can always use something else to tinker with

[cglaeser 0]

Optex makes some good wireless outdoor motion detector kits.

 

+1.

 

Outdoor Optex PIRs have netted six arrests thus far. I have one Optex that can detect someone coming at 100 meters. I know to check my cameras before they are even in camera range. They work day or night, rain or shine.

 

Best,

Christopher

[EOppie 0]

So I will admit, that's great, however I have about six feet between the house and the road...

 

Are people recommending that I have a PIR that monitors the road as well? This seems about a bunch of false alerts.

 

What would people say for such a small space?

 

I have no problem setting the cameras to record on motion detection and catch every car that goes by, the home is alarmed so I am not looking for the cameras to be the sole protection for burglary.

 

Still would love any thoughts on a camera system.

[Campbell 0]

If its minor vandalism from the roadside, you'll probably want to toss some IR on as I prseume its at night when it happens?

[EOppie 0]

I assume so, however I am initially going to try without an additional illuminator. There is a fair amount of light from the streetlights and porch lights. I would like a cam that can see ir.

[skane 0]

If the threat is only coming from the road, prioritize the budget to get a camera set up that can get usable evidence at that kill zone (instead of spreading the budget to less likely ingress paths).

 

If they're doing drivebys from within a vehicle you'll probably need to catch lic. plates (unless they're locals and you know the vehicle), and consistently getting a plate shot at night at distance with no choke point and no controlled lighting can be challenging. There are existing threads on this forum discussing lic. plate set ups.

[skane 0]

Optex makes some good wireless outdoor motion detector kits.

 

+1.

 

Outdoor Optex PIRs have netted six arrests thus far. I have one Optex that can detect someone coming at 100 meters. I know to check my cameras before they are even in camera range. They work day or night, rain or shine.

 

Best,

Christopher

 

Yep, Optex outdoor sensors + cameras are a great combo for punk vandals that sneak around neighborhoods at night. Make an example out of a few punks and word gets around too. About 6 months ago we caught some teens egging; they did enough damage (ruined paint on some cars) to get charged with felony vandalism; no fun for them and their parents.

[cglaeser 0]

So I will admit, that's great, however I have about six feet between the house and the road...

 

Are people recommending that I have a PIR that monitors the road as well? This seems about a bunch of false alerts.

 

What would people say for such a small space?

 

Optex makes a short, mid, and long range outdoor PIRs. You would select a model based on your requirements. Regarding the monitoring of the road, that really depends on the traffic. I live on a court. I ignore the activity during the day, but if there is activity at 2 am, I'll wake up and check. I can see all my cameras on my iPhone, so I don't have to get out of bed to check. When a PIR chimes an alert in the middle of the night, I reach over and check the phone. If you live on a busy street, you would need to set up the PIRs to cover your yard. BTW, Optex makes wireless outdoor PIRs, which are a breeze to install.

 

Regarding IR, that can be very helpful in being able to see at night, but don't expect to ID someone based on night images. It's difficult, even with IR. The best way to get an arrest is to call the police while the burglar is in the neighborhood. PIR will alert you, and cameras allow you to observe in safety.

 

Best,

Christopher

[tomcctv 190]

Thanks for the response.

 

I travel a fair amount for work and I think that many of these are done by "drive by eggings" so a motion detector put in the street would give many false alarms.

 

For a property intrusion alarm they make sense, however I don't think that will happen in this situation. I am really looking to simply upgrade the camera system.

 

I will check into the Optex recommendation though, hey I can always use something else to tinker with

 

 

 

 

hi. many ggod cameras out there. axis/sanyo all well priced for home use. you said some of your neighbours already have axix installed. it may be a good idea to find out what software there are using and get the same (if good) you could then help and protect each other property. you take a camera stream from them and they take a stream from your cameras. good protection if one or the other has the PC stolen.

 

 

there are some axis and others for sale in the sale section of the forum. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20564

[Nimrod 0]

EOppie, here is my 2 cents worth of advice.

 

“Goal of the system is primarily for exterior monitoring/recording of home. There has been an increase in minor vandalism such as egging, irrigation system damage, trash/debris being thrown, and landscapes being damaged. Ideally I would like to be able to capture vehicles and persons that are in the area of the home during both daytime and nighttime hours. As far as ambient light at night, the neighborhood has streetlights, and my porch lights stay on all night.

 

I understand that for my budget, I am not going to go with a facial recognition or license plate caliber system.”

 

Think about this, you already have a camera system that does not identify, and you are going to upgrade to another system that will not identify?

 

“Currently I have been running Low End Panasonic IP Cameras, I have a BL-C1A in both the kitchen and living room.”

 

Hopefully you have these 640x480 cameras pointed at the entrance ways of the room were you can get an id if someone does break in. Also make sure you are not looking at an area of more than 5 to 6 feet wide for good id.

 

“For the exterior, I have a BL-C10A that is aimed out the front window. I am looking to upgrade this camera due to wanting better picture quality.”

 

Another 640x480 camera and out a window, i think you already figured out it gives a poor picture.

 

“For recording, I have a dedicated PC running Blue Iris which I have been happy with, however have been looking into other solutions based on this forum.”

 

Blue iris has a lot of functionality, its problem is the front end, or getting the picture in. I found that 640x480 ip cameras worked well with it, but when i went to a 1.2mp camera the cpu jumped up 20% with 1.8 gig duel core, and could only get around 4 fps max into it.

 

“Main concern once again is the front of the structure. I am currently debating camera locations, and I feel I may need to end up with multiple. Other homes of the same model have a single dome camera under the front porch, on the left side of the structure. This seems to work relatively well, I included a shot of what I can currently see from the window.”

 

If the other houses have gotten enough identification for a conviction. Then it may be a good model to follow.

 

“I am proposing putting a camera above the porch as others have done, as well as install another camera under the eve on the right hand side of the residence. I need to get up under the eve and look, as when the tree is in full bloom, I imagine this will be partially blocked.”

 

Tree’s can be a real problem and force you to use multiple cameras, or alternate locations. Some places you may not have considered assuming you are a hands on type of guy. Looking thru a hole in the fence, hiding camera in bushes or in some ornament that looks good next to bushes. Some people have made holes in garage walls for cameras.

 

“For gear, I have been looking into a ACTi TCM-1231 or GeoVision MFD110 for under the eves. I also have been looking at used Axis Gear as well. I am open to recommendations, however this should give an idea on price range.”

 

From what you listed the acti tcm 1231 looks best spec wise.

 

“All will be run back to the structured wiring panel with Cat6, and will be connected to a POE switch.”

 

Cat6 is not needed, cat5 will work fine. Use the one you have supplies for, wire and rj45 ends.

 

“Next door, our neighbor had a local installer put in an Axis 216FD above the porch, and elsewhere in the neighborhood a different installer put in an Axis M3204 in the same location. I find it interesting that both of these are mounted outside, however are indoor cameras. Experts correct me if I am wrong!”

 

You are right they are indoor cameras.

 

http://www.axis.com/files/datasheet/ds_216fd_combo_32272_en_0809_lo.pdf

 

http://www.axis.com/files/datasheet/ds_m32_41247_en_1011_lo.pdf

 

Putting aside the indoor camera mounted outside i would cozy up to the neighbor who has the Axis M3204, it is a 1mp camera similar in resolution to the acti you like, and you can and really study the its video to see if it can ident who is doing what.

 

BTW, this looks like a very nice neighborhood. From your description it sounds like many people are having problems. Do you have any idea why random acts of vandalism are happening there.

[EOppie 0]

Nimrod thanks for all the responses!

 

I was afraid that Blue Iris may choke, I guess time will tell. I know from digging around on here there may be some other options either free or inexpensive that would work for only few cameras.

 

I understand CAT6 is overkill...however I have a bunch of it left over from networking the rest of the house.

 

To my knowledge, the neighbors are not using anything other than the camera itself for recording. I took a look at the neighbor with the M3204 and the picture is actually really nice. I am waiting to see how it looks during the night...

 

I took a better peak at it, and it is not mounted in any other dome or any other protection from the elements. I understand it is under a porch, however that is still outside in my opinion. The owner said they sealed it up with silicone caulk and when they pressure wash the house they put a plastic bag over it...creative nonetheless.

 

Thanks for the comments on the neighborhood. Most of the arrests have been on juveniles egging cars, one group actually charged with felony vandalism. There have been very few break-ins in the area, however I will admit that it seems some parenting is lacking.

 

The community is also a target for egging and landscape damage as it is much nicer than most of the surrounding area. So some groups feel it is fun to come in and damage it...

[cglaeser 0]

There's one more option you might consider, and that is an Optex outdoor wireless IR beam. Sometimes it is difficult to aim a PIR for the desired coverage, and the IR beam is an easy option to create an electronic fence. If you set the height above the average dog, you won't get false alarms on animals but detect people walking onto your property. Just one more option.

 

Best,

Christopher

[Nimrod 0]

“I was afraid that Blue Iris may choke, I guess time will tell. I know from digging around on here there may be some other options either free or inexpensive that would work for only few cameras.”

 

Let us know if you find a mp camera that works well with blue iris. Main details are fps you get, mp of camera, and cpu use with cpu used, when camera is running.

 

“I understand CAT6 is overkill...however I have a bunch of it left over from networking the rest of the house.”

 

Your right, in this case go with cat6 and just a reminder, the cable is probably not rated for outdoor use so do not run in direct sunlight or let it sit in a pool of water.

 

“To my knowledge, the neighbors are not using anything other than the camera itself for recording. I took a look at the neighbor with the M3204 and the picture is actually really nice. I am waiting to see how it looks during the night...”

 

That would be interesting, but do not forget the ACTi TCM-1231 you picked out is a better camera. It has an ir cut out filter and a 1/3“ sensor not a 1/4“ one ( i tried to find real night time lux specs but both vendors do a good job of hiding them).

[nickCR 0]

Took a quick read over this thread.

 

IMHO although upgrading and installing some nice cameras with a central DVR is a nice plan and functional I wonder if maybe this might be a perfect scenario for a Mobotix camera. It records everything to an on-board SD card. You could essentially place these cameras anywhere.

 

I would hide them in the grass in that round-about in the front of your house, in the trees or in the mailbox, between the slates on the fence in the backyard... dunno somewhere you can capture the donkeys doing the crime but so they don't see it.. They offer PoE but at 4W you could setup a battery pack or just run the wire if it's not a problem for ya.

 

With these cameras all you need to do is pull out the SD pop it in your computer check for evidence, then send to the police... let them make the arrest