Pelco Coaxitron distance

[tlavite 0]

Hi next week I am starting on a new project at work. The housing authority in my town is Gavin trouble with about 40% of there Pelco Spectra 3 cameras loosing there programmed pattern and just looking at the ground or at the side of a house. The whole system is a Pelco system. About 25 Spectra 3's 12 at each location and two DX8100 Hybrid DVR's. The PTZ are controlled from the DVR through Coaxitron.

 

The owner of the system said he will set the patterns then come in the next day and some of the cameras are just sitting dead in there tracks stairing at the sidewalk or a gasmeter. Have any of you witnessed this problem before?

 

I'll be fixing a couple of issues while at the site but this one is by far the worst one. They want this fixed bad. Any ideas as to what could cause this to happen?

[Soundy 1]

Do they resume their patterns after a power-cycle? Can you still enter the menus and steer them manually? I would assume they're set to resume pattern after a set time after being accessed manually - do they do that?

[survtech 0]

Has the owner "rewound" the video to see the sequence of events? That would be a great clue.

 

If this only happens at night, how cold does the temperature get? Cold enough for any heaters to kick on? I've seen instances where PTZs' power cables and/or power supplies were underspec'd, causing too much voltage drop when the thermostats turned on the heaters. You would be able to see that as a total loss of video for a relatively long period at night, followed by the typical on-screen startup sequence (Pelco Logo - Dome Drive data - "CONFIGURING" - a series of movements - "CONFIGURATION COMPLETE").

 

If power is not an issue, possibly the cooling fans are bad??? Also, Spectra III's are known for failing power supplies. Pelco makes a "kit" for that:

 

DD53KIT

Power Supply Kit, Pelco Spectra III

[tlavite 0]

Sorry for the late reply guys been pretty buys with work the last week (dealing with these cameras) so far I have found out that the people who installed the system was a bunch of brain dead morons (more about that later this is a quick update before i have to leave) anyway none of the cameras where set to auto resume the pattern after power failure so I programmed that in to them. Here is the problem though the cameras will slowly start to drift away from what I programmed the pattern to be looking at. They slowly start to pan to far or tilt to high and zoom to close and then eventually they are completely off track. At the other site the cameras loose the pattern within about 5 minutes they start messing up. Two of the cameras even randomly start zooming into the ground and panning around. Then they refuse to start the pattern after that unless you re-program the pattern.

 

 

More info tonight when I get back home. But I have to get this working before the 4th of july since last year the people went nuts and attacked the police with fireworks (over 100 people) and the people who installed the system set the 12 PTZ's to record at 1 flipping frame per second!!! so the footage was worthless... anyway as I said before more tonight I got to go!

[tlavite 0]

Do they resume their patterns after a power-cycle? Can you still enter the menus and steer them manually? I would assume they're set to resume pattern after a set time after being accessed manually - do they do that?

 

I forgot to answer your question (first off I am typing from my iPhone while at a restaraunt. So sorry for some spelling mistakes and stuff)

 

Ok so yes now they are set to restate the pattern after a power cycle. Who ever set up the system literally hooked it all up turned it on and walked away. They did not set nothing up on the DVR or cameras.

 

Yes I can still enter the menus and steer them. The whole system actuat works great besides this pattern issue. If user it to do preset tour it works fine it never messes up. But when they do patterns they all (12 at each site) end up getting off track and doing stupid stuff like random zooms into gas meters and stuff.

 

If you guys could only imagine some of the stuff I have seen in the way this system was hooked up. The ptz are all on utility poles in a not so friendly area. For one when I first got to the site one camera was all weirdosh red I mean weird so I had the other guy with me go reboot the cam up at the pole. That caused it to come back on but was all choppy and popped in and out and would not listen to anything I did. It literally did as it pleased. Looong story short the guy Hooked up the video/power surge protector backwards... And it had been like this for the last two years!

 

Idk if I can't come up with anything by Monday I'm gonna restore the whole pelco dvr (it's a DX8100 Hybrid DVR) it has the restore disk. So I think I am going to start over from scratch because god only knows what the last people who installed it did during the system setup. But I have sat and played with this system for the past 4 days! And still have no clue why they mess up there patterns.

 

I have a video of what the cameras do that I will post when I get home tonight.

 

Also they are all controlled through coaxitron... Here is the video

 

(in the video when he mentioned something with the modem we were talking about a whole different issue)

[Soundy 1]

Patterns are generally stored in the cameras themselves, so rebuilding/restoring the DVR should have no effect, unless it's sending different programming on its own. A quick way to test this is to simply disable the PTZ options for a couple of the more troublesome cameras, and see if the behavior continues (if it wasn't using coaxitron, I'd say just unplug the PTZ wires).

 

You could also go into the cameras' menus (or even just pick one of the worst ones to test it on first) and perform a factory reset on it, to remove any existing programming... then reprogram the pattern, and disable its PTZ options in the DVR (so the DVR thinks it's just another fixed camera). In theory, the camera should continue running its pattern on its own, even after a power cycle.

 

There's a very slight chance, after all this, that the camera is still getting extraneous data from the DVR.... the only sure way to test that would be to disconnect it from the DVR completely, and just plug it into a monitor, then leave it for a while and see if it starts freaking out. This SHOULD ultimately confirm or disprove that the DVR has anything to do with the issue. Again, best place to start is with one or two cameras that are the worst, so you don't have to wait too long to see the results of the tweaking...

[survtech 0]

I agree with Soundy. The Pelcos store patterns, presets, etc. in internal memory. In my experience (using RS422/485 control), properly functioning Spectras are quite accurate in retaining their memory. For that reason, I would suspect internal issues, most likely the Power Supply or the Receiver/Driver circuits. I would give Time Lapse Supply a call. They are very helpful and can assist you in troubleshooting the problem(s).

 

From their website (http://www.tlselectronics.com/customer_service.shtml) "Please call (888-590-9923), fax (415-380-9088), or e-mail (info@timelapsesupply.com) us if you have any questions."

 

You could also call Pelco Tech Support at (800) 289-9100 (U.S.) (+1 (559) 292-1981 International) or see this web page: http://www.pelco.com/sites/global/en/sales-and-support/contact/feedback-form.page

 

NOTE: Pelco's customer support quality has deteriorated greatly since Schneider Electric bought them (as expected). I think TLS would be more helpful.

[tomcctv 190]

same here hard reset on PTZ heads see what that does.

 

had a problem 2 years ago only on 1 ptz. did everything reset same thing. looked in event log and it showed PTZ commands from remote.

 

last company who installed the system had CMS commands external tour. if you are on a network for remote viewing change DVR passwords

[tlavite 0]

Thanks guys for the reply's! I will try some of your suggestions today. Ill remote into the DVR and reset some of the cameras and then keep and eye on them. Also can any one explain where the log would be on a Pelco DX series DVR? I'm sure I can find it if I look hard enough. And about user accounts... there are about 5-6 different power user accounts on each DVR including the local police station.

 

If worst comes to worst ill give TLS a call.

 

Thanks guys! I'll keep you posted.

[tomcctv 190]

there are about 5-6 different power user accounts

 

 

hi not shure about log records on your dvr.

 

5-6 accounts -- do you know who has control ...... if not change passwords and give the new one to only the operators that should have remote log in

[tlavite 0]

there are about 5-6 different power user accounts

 

 

hi not shure about log records on your dvr.

 

5-6 accounts -- do you know who has control ...... if not change passwords and give the new one to only the operators that should have remote log in

 

By who has control do you mean like overall? for the whole system?... Then yes I do. In my opinion there really are only two people who need "power user" accounts and they are the head of operations and the other big head honcho who runs the place.

 

I don't think every tom dick and harry in the office needs to be able to go and play with the PTZ's and move them and change settings, but that is how it is set up right now.

[tlavite 0]

Okay so I did what you guys mentioned. I went in and reset the PTZ's to factory defaults. I reprogramed patterns on all 12 cameras and then turned off dver PTZ control to one camera so the DVR saw it as a stationary cam. The camera kept its pattern for about 12 hours before just stopping. Even 4 of the other PTZ cams that the DVR still see's as a PTZ cam also just stopped at different times. And the other ones are getting off track again and zooming into the wrong stuff.

 

I think tomorrow I am going to take my coaxitron PTZ controller in hook it up and a camera program a new pattern then just have the cam on a monitor and see if the camera its self messes up.

[survtech 0]

Is there any accompanying loss of video when the patterns start degrading?

[tlavite 0]

Is there any accompanying loss of video when the patterns start degrading?

 

 

Nope no loss of video.

[survtech 0]

It could be the slip rings. Try panning one of the problem cameras at turbo speed numerous rotations one way, then the other, then see what it does afterwards.

[tlavite 0]

Okay quick question about Pelco Coaxitron. what exactly are the instalation specs on using coaxitron. How far can you run some of the cameras away from the pelco DVR. I heard that 750 feet would be around the max over RG59 is that true? and if so would pattern degration be a side effect? I am working a job that the 12 pelco PTZ's keep loosing the patterns. All the cams are on a pelco dx8100 DVR and controlled over coax through RG59. And some of the runs are well over 750 feet. Would we have to re run all rg6 or is there some sort of amplifier for this?

[Soundy 1]

Patterns are stored in the camera itself, so cable length should not be an issue with that.

 

Is this the same issue as in your other thread? viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25890

[tlavite 0]

Patterns are stored in the camera itself, so cable length should not be an issue with that.

 

Is this the same issue as in your other thread? viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25890

 

 

Yeah same issue still trouble shooting. We got some looooooong runs but I didn't know nor can I find any specs on coaxitron control. Such as distance limit and stuff like that. The problem with the pattern is just not constant to one cam.

[fa chris 0]

I use 650 feet to play it safe but the Pelco says 750 feet for RG59.

 

Took the info from the data sheet for the Pelco MPT9000:

 

http://www.pelco.com/sites/global/en/products/analog-systems-controls/range-presentation.page?c_filepath=/templatedata/Offer_Presentation/3_Range_Datasheet/data/en/shared/analog_systems_and_controls/mpt9000_series_control.xml

[tlavite 0]

I use 650 feet to play it safe but the Pelco says 750 feet for RG59.

 

Took the info from the data sheet for the Pelco MPT9000:

 

http://www.pelco.com/sites/global/en/products/analog-systems-controls/range-presentation.page?c_filepath=/templatedata/Offer_Presentation/3_Range_Datasheet/data/en/shared/analog_systems_and_controls/mpt9000_series_control.xml

 

 

Yeah most our runs are at about 3-500 feet. Now what about connections. The people who installed the system has quite a few splices in the lines up on the poles. Where the cut crimped and added a barrel... Could that be causing some problems with coaxitron. (I am starting to think all the cameras at this site might be bad)

[fa chris 0]

If it's happening to all the cameras, hook up a camera you know that works on one end of the cable and a monitor at the other end BEFORE it goes into any head end equipment (dvr, splitter, encoder, matrix, etc.). Ruling out the cable installation should be easy.

[tlavite 0]

If it's happening to all the cameras, hook up a camera you know that works on one end of the cable and a monitor at the other end BEFORE it goes into any head end equipment (dvr, splitter, encoder, matrix, etc.). Ruling out the cable installation should be easy.

 

That's what I told my boss but we don't have any other spectra cameras to test with. The thing is we are working on two separate sites (both installe by the same company) but each site has 12 spectra III and IV cams and each site they are messing up. I find it hard to bileve that 24 PTZ's went bad since they have had this problem since the system was installed. I took a camera to my house and wired it up and it ran fine for me, hooked it back up at the site it was fine for two days then starred messing up again. I'm thinking of eliminating the coaxitron and going to rs-485 for each cam.

[Soundy 1]

Were you using coaxitron for your home test as well?

 

I forget, was distance to power considered? Is the power supply sufficient? I know Pelco recommends at least 75VA *per camera*, with fairly substantial power wire needed for any significant distance (16/2 up to 12/2 depending on the length). The timing of it suggests things may be working fine until the heater/blower kicks in and causes a voltage drop... have you measured the voltage AT the camera? (Sorry, too lazy to look up the other thread right now... actually, maybe I'll combine them to keep things tidy...)

[tlavite 0]

Were you using coaxitron for your home test as well?

 

I forget, was distance to power considered? Is the power supply sufficient? I know Pelco recommends at least 75VA *per camera*, with fairly substantial power wire needed for any significant distance (16/2 up to 12/2 depending on the length). The timing of it suggests things may be working fine until the heater/blower kicks in and causes a voltage drop... have you measured the voltage AT the camera? (Sorry, too lazy to look up the other thread right now... actually, maybe I'll combine them to keep things tidy...)

 

Yes I used coaxitron at my house. And the cameras all have there own pelco outdoor powersupply up ontop of each utility pole. Each supplying 26VAC