jdowning 0 Posted June 27, 2011 Hi guys, I'm setting up a camera system and want to insert all the wiring for my cameras first of all and then get the cameras. One question first however - why do most businesses use housed body cameras on the outside of their buildings if they are not infrared? What I'd be looking for: 1) 1 x Body Housed Camera 2) 1 x PTZ Camera 3) 3 x Vandal Dome Cameras with wall mount. So, what I'd need altogether is: 1) External CAT5 cable 2) What type of power should I put to these cameras? What cable should I use? I can't use the CAT5 as they are infrared cameras and won't support it. 3) 5 Pairs of Video Baluns 4) 8 channel DVR 5) Brackets for cameras Can you guys elaborate on what power I should put and which CAT5 cable please? Thanks for all your help! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted June 28, 2011 One question first however - why do most businesses use housed body cameras on the outside of their buildings if they are not infrared? What do you mean by "housed body cameras"? News flash: most professional-grade cameras are not infrared because built-in IR is most often a cheap workaround for cheap cameras that have poor low-light performance. Businesses also often have exterior lighting anyway, so a quality camera doesn't require additional IR illumination. 1) 1 x Body Housed Camera Not sure what this is... No, what I'd need altogether is: 1) External CAT5 cable Use standard Cat5e and put it in conduit of some sort. 2) What type of power should I put to these cameras? What cable should I use? I can't use the CAT5 as they are infrared cameras and won't support it. Nonsense. Even basic cheap 12VDC-powered IR cameras will work fine over Cat5e, depending on the distance. Can you guys elaborate on what power I should put Depends on what the cameras require. Suggestion: CNB VBM-24VF or VCM-24VF. Work on 12V or 24VAC, work great in low light (no IR required), vandal-resistant weatherproof domes. and which CAT5 cable please? Red. Not blue. Maybe grey if you can't find the red. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 28, 2011 hi it may be best if you can give some sort of budget first. listing cameras and DVRs is easy but if you have a small budget it can be a lot of work for nothing. another is to list each distance from DVR to camera (cable runs) but for your install dont buy from the likes of ebay. full body camera. looks like this. this is a complete camera from CNB. is this what you ment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 28, 2011 are you installing on a licenced premisess Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birdman Adam 0 Posted June 28, 2011 Soundy just wondering, but why not blue cat5? If you have high-power IR cameras/PTZs/other high-amp loads, it would be good to run 18/2 (or 16/2) power cable along with the cat5 runs. With doubled up wires using 24VAC, cat5 can power a lot however. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted June 28, 2011 hi it may be best if you can give some sort of budget first. listing cameras and DVRs is easy but if you have a small budget it can be a lot of work for nothing. Yes, good point too. full body camera. looks like this. this is a complete camera from CNB. is this what you ment. Never heard that term for it. Only camera I've ever seen that came like this was on a Pelco Esprit PTZ. Normally when you see something like this, it's a standard box camera inside a separate housing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdowning 0 Posted June 28, 2011 Hi guys, thanks for all your replies. I'd like to be spending no more than £250 per camera - any less would be good however I don't want to do a mickey mouse job. Sorry for my explanation of 'body housed cameras'. I was talking about body cameras with a housing. Would you recommend them rather than the dome? Would these body ones require much light at night to get a good, clear picture? What sort of camera would I be looking at? And do all these body cameras fit into most of the housings? For the UK, if I go into a cable supplier, what type of cable should I be asking for the power... I think I want to wire it out of CAT5 incase I need to use more pairs in the future. What work would be required to the power cable to get the cameras going? Thanks very much for all your help, really appreciate it. Jack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 28, 2011 £250 per camera £250 is a very good price. you will get most (except PTZ) for under that. cat5 is the cable you need to ask for comes in 305m reels (dont go with cheap stuf) mostly comes in gray or black in the UK. your local city electrical factors will be best. (CEF) what type of budget do you have for your DVR. having good cameras and then using a bad dvr is a waste of money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdowning 0 Posted June 28, 2011 £250 per camera £250 is a very good price. you will get most (except PTZ) for under that. cat5 is the cable you need to ask for comes in 305m reels (dont go with cheap stuf) mostly comes in gray or black in the UK. your local city electrical factors will be best. (CEF) what type of budget do you have for your DVR. having good cameras and then using a bad dvr is a waste of money. Well that all depends, I don't want to go overboard if you get what I mean. Would I have to be looking at a full D1 camera for all cameras? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 28, 2011 it is better to go D1. because you are a restaurant / hotel you do come under the DPA act. which means your system has to be fit for purpose. doing your system yourself is not a problem and is a good way of saving money. do you have a DVR in mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdowning 0 Posted June 28, 2011 it is better to go D1. because you are a restaurant / hotel you do come under the DPA act. which means your system has to be fit for purpose. doing your system yourself is not a problem and is a good way of saving money. do you have a DVR in mind. I have absolutely none in mind - wouldn't I be better buying a non-D1 DVR and then waiting about a year until the prices go down? Jack Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 28, 2011 it is better to go D1. because you are a restaurant / hotel you do come under the DPA act. which means your system has to be fit for purpose. doing your system yourself is not a problem and is a good way of saving money. do you have a DVR in mind. I have absolutely none in mind - wouldn't I be better buying a non-D1 DVR and then waiting about a year until the prices go down? Jack Hi. D1 is not that expensive. pm me your total budget. if you install a system that does not conform to DPA standards you can loose alot of money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nimrod 0 Posted June 28, 2011 D1 DVR’s can be had fairly inexpensively. Search ebay for “Dahua dvr” they have a good reputation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdowning 0 Posted June 28, 2011 D1 DVR’s can be had fairly inexpensively. Search ebay for “Dahua dvr” they have a good reputation. These DVRs all seem to run at 6/7FPS - not the full 25/30fps. Will that still be sufficient? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 28, 2011 D1 DVR’s can be had fairly inexpensively. Search ebay for “Dahua dvr” they have a good reputation. These DVRs all seem to run at 6/7FPS - not the full 25/30fps. Will that still be sufficient? hi you wont find Dahua DVRs being sold in the UK on ebay .co.uk only old models from china. they get removed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nimrod 0 Posted June 29, 2011 “hi you wont find Dahua DVRs being sold in the UK on ebay .co.uk only old models from china. they get removed.“ I think i saw that about CNB cameras also, why are these items removed in the UK? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted June 29, 2011 D1 DVR’s can be had fairly inexpensively. Search ebay for “Dahua dvr” they have a good reputation. These DVRs all seem to run at 6/7FPS - not the full 25/30fps. Will that still be sufficient? Full framerate is overrated (pardon the pun) in about 95% of cases. Most people won't even notice the difference between 30 and 15, and most would notice that there IS a difference, but not really click on what it is at 7-10. Check this demo: http://www.panasonic.com/business/security/demos/PSS-recording-rates.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Campbell 0 Posted June 29, 2011 Soundy just wondering, but why not blue cat5? Red cable is fire designated here so you don't use that. I've used yellow for all mine... but now people are starting to use yellow as well so I might change to another colour... Blue is the generic colour for all data and when cabling for cameras, I prefer to know which cables are mine easily, hence the reason for using a different colour. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted June 29, 2011 Soundy just wondering, but why not blue cat5? Red cable is fire designated here so you don't use that. I've used yellow for all mine... but now people are starting to use yellow as well so I might change to another colour... Blue is the generic colour for all data and when cabling for cameras, I prefer to know which cables are mine easily, hence the reason for using a different colour. I was being silly. There's red cable that's not fire-rated - UTP comes in a range of colors. We actually use black most often, as it's easier to blend in most cases. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fa chris 0 Posted June 29, 2011 and which CAT5 cable please? Red. Not blue. Maybe grey if you can't find the red. Red is typically for fire alarm. Green jacketed is more common for security. Although any color will work. to the OP, for cctv power I always use 2 conductor stranded 18 guage cable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted June 29, 2011 Red is typically for fire alarm. Green jacketed is more common for security dont think anyone would use red cat5 for fire alarms. would not be covered by any regs. cat5 comes in many colours and its only for identification. this is fire detection data cable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fa chris 0 Posted June 29, 2011 Red jacketed cable in general is fire alarm. Completely depends on the fire alarm panel, although I can't think of any fire alarm panels that use Ethernet for their networks. I'm sure a few are out there though and more will be going that direction. Our detection loops use an 18 gauge 2 conductor cable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bpzle 0 Posted June 30, 2011 Can you guys elaborate on what power I should put Depends on what the cameras require. Suggestion: CNB VBM-24VF or VCM-24VF. Work on 12V or 24VAC, work great in low light (no IR required), vandal-resistant weatherproof domes. VBM-24VF straddled between 2 street lamps, both 75 feet from target. All factory default settings. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6103627/CNB%20vbm24vf.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birdman Adam 0 Posted June 30, 2011 Thought I'd put in another pic for the 24VF series... VCM-24VF, defaults, probably about 4mm. Recorded on a Samsung SRD-870DC, D1, maximum quality. This is a screencap of a small video test-backup. Distance like 15'-20'. Video sent through ~60' cat5 with baluns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
