16 channel dvr help

[fedup 0]

Hey all

 

I have a 3500 sq ft commercial building in lets call it a challenged neighborhood. Currently I have a rather high incident rate and am currently using vhs systems (stop laughing).OK so it's time now to update to digital and I really only want or need the actual dvr at the moment. Problem is I'm rather inept at knowing or understanding all the tek talk about these things (I'm old like the VHS stuff so also computer challenged to a degree). I can wire virtually anything and worked in the analog electronics field when younger (long ago), the digital stuff is always a struggle for me to absorb.

 

I have seen a lot of these units on ebay and various sites all with magical claims and then read various message board horror stories where Merlin failed to perform.

 

So basically I need something that can handle up to 16 cameras ,lets say a terrabite for starters and dvd burner so I can make party favors for the boys in blue--- post problems. I need something dependable but not outrageous in cost. Probably would be nice to have simple net monitoring remotely but no I phone or that sort of frills is needed. Just the basic relive their moments with kodack and me being able to check up from afar on occasion would be peachy. What is a reasonable/realistic cost investment and dependable brand and model? I'd like to keep the dvr alone cost under 1500 if that's realistic. Probably a system that can later have memory expanded or additional drives added.

 

I notice many of these systems say "x" amount of hours recording time but they aren't exactly clear on if that means with one or all camera's .Is the time rating for one camera and then you divide the time proportionate for each additional or do they usually mean for all 16 camera images you get the full hour rating? From what I am reading I should also be looking for D1 resolution?

 

Tried an 8 channel q-see piece of garbage from Costco and sent it right back,one of their unusual functions was if you used the remote to power off the image you had to unplug the dvr to get it to restore image (no power switch at all except the remote which was designed to not restore image according to tek support ) , not to mention the quality was not far from tape...well new tape. Plus it had warning stickers all over it not to depower it without going though the correct shut down procedure (guess they never have power outages where q-see land is.

 

So guys help a damsel in distress please from the proverbial street urchins of the world.and please give me some solid advise here as to what to buy,hopefully not a home owner piece of doo doo,perhaps some not too crazy cost commercial unit???

 

I'll probably upgrade some cameras later but for now I just need better recording quality with a longer time span. These days my local constabularies are having trouble finding vintage gear to play my tapes on. I run 12 time lapse vcr's all dedicated per camera outputs also run to a multiplexer for monitoring on large screen, I did the original install. OK who wants to buy property on my block.

[CCTV_Suppliers 0]

Welcome to the forum...

 

Well, looks like you need a decent 16-channel DVR that is easy to operate and works well... I am sure others will jump in and make their own recommendations, but for your price range, I can make a strong case with the model below...

 

CBC America HD series DVR - http://computarganz.com/product_series.cfm?series_id=48

 

This product comes with full three years warranty, no questions asked. Their replacement warranty is excellent and technical support that is exceptional. We have been working with them for over 20+ years.

 

This DVR comes with most of the bells and whistles (of course feature that most people do not use), but extremely easy to operate - and based on Linux. Even though their specs state that you can take this system to maximum 3TB storage , in real world, you can take them up to 6TB - and the fourth bay is reserved for DVD burner.

 

One of the options when considering this box is that you can buy it without storage drives - gives you capability to install whatever storage you need. Since the prices for hard drives has come down a lot, it makes sense to consider this option.

 

Let me know what you think.

[fedup 0]

Ok well I'm interested but again not sure about what I am reading with it's specs.What sort of hour time using all 16 cameras does a 1TB translate to in the DI resolution? Is this a commercial use machine or a home intended unit? I have no problem with popping a drive in but what sort of cost difference is there with or without a drive since drives for a tb these days are under 100$ .My main concern is having something dependable as if I go away a week and am on the road I can't just run back to fiddle with a machine easily. The DVD burner is a must for me.I also have a 40 inch TV someone gave me since they went flat screen and I would love to be able to use it for a monitor since 16 cameras on smaller screens you practically need a magnifier or a load of monitors to see what's going on.

 

It really is depressing to see how society has changed so much since I was young. We use to never lock our doors and I'll tell ya now it's almost as if you need a body guard escort to walk to the local store. I have to do something asap to get better results then tape,it's just too much fuss and poor image capture. Biggest problem now is when single frame watching tape it deteriorates the tape itself in the process so I really need to go digital.

 

If you deal these things how do I speak with you direct?

[CraigVM62 0]

Being an old fart, I fully understand how things have changed regarding the need for security measures these days. Luckily technology has also changed to make providing those measures much easier.

 

I have recently starting installing the VMAX series of DVR's by Digital Watchdog which, like many other DVR Manufacturers, make setup very simple. They have a feature where you set how many days of recording you would like. The DVR then sets all cameras at the highest frame rate and resolution which will provide the number of days you requested. You still have the option of setting each cameras frame rate and resolution individually if desired. That way you can set priority cameras at a higher resolution and frame rate than others. You can set some or all cameras to only record when "video motion" is detected. I have found that it is best to use video motion detection for interior cameras. Even if you have not set up a DVR before, it will not take much reading from the manual to understand how Video Motion Detection works and how you can customize it to accommodate different situations. If the only concern is recording during non business hours, that can also easily be set up.

Best thing yet are resources like this forum where questions can be answered. I have learned as much from reading posts and asking questions here as I have from many installation manuals.

 

One last thing is when you decide what DVR you want to go with, don't just search the cheapest source you can find on the internet. As an example, Digital Watchdog offers a 5 year warranty if purchased through an authorized distributor. This excludes sources like Amazon and other major retailers found on the internet. So best to confirm via the manufactures website that your source won't exclude you from their warranty.

[shankarsha 0]

you can try DAHUA dvr for instance. You have a budget limitation so you have to forget D1 resolution which is is really a heck to achieve cos you may need a chain of devices to get it. So take some D1 cameras of your choice and a 16 ch dahua dvr LE-T series. You can record at D1 resolution but at 6 FPS. I hope the quality won't disappoint you. More quality video = more recording space. Rules don't change. Atleast in this case. So put 2TB HDD. (That's the max for this dvr)

[fedup 0]

Hi Craig and Shankar and thank you both for the responses.

 

Craig Thanks so much,

I looked at digital Watchdogs site and from what I see they only offer a 2 year limited warentee, unless I am looking at the wrong thing, here's the page I accessed:

http://www.dwcc.tv/product_Dvrs/product_list.asp?category=Hybrid%20PC%20Based

 

Am I looking at the correct company and units??? They do appear to be more a pro unit but no prices are listed beside the different warentee issue. I do grasp what you are saying about what camera you select for high res and it's time used is proportionate to drive size but again I'm still scratching my head to get some approximate idea of just how many days 16 cameras can record 24/7 footage. I also understand the motion aspect,but wonder if bugs flying or leaves blowing, wind in tree branches or grass or the wind moving something is going to be interpreted as video movement. Right now I have motion lights on the place and a slight wind will rattle my gate enough sometimes to click the lights on. I could with the lights lower the sensitivity but then the field coverage seems to diminish as well. The biggest problem I have is with either mischievous kids trashing things or transients,with the kids it;s often a quick hit and run. Things like someone on a bicycle throwing a rock to brake glass or someone running past and kicking out a cement form and other idiotic stuff of that sort. The transients pose a greater problem as they look for drug money and anything to steal. With tape often the captured image is such short duration and poor quality it then becomes hard to search frames for a good captured image and why I am hoping for D1.

 

Shankar thanks so much , I intend in the future to upgrade all the camera's etc, but at present I would leave that gear in place and upgrade it one item at a time as money permits. I'd really like to aim for D1 even if it means additional gear.It's just the initial purchase for me I want to spend what I can afford on the best DVR possible for me and probably then change critical cameras right after that in sequence as money permits until the entire system is where I would like it. This is not to say what you recommend is a bad unit but I am hoping for something a with a bit more workhorse like dependability and resolution. The DVR is the heart of the system and if I replace all 12 tape units it means that one unit then becomes critical not to fail. I would prefer if I can to buy something more in a commercial grade if possible.

 

Thank you both so so much and as you guys point out the forum is becoming a quick education. The point made about whom one buys from effecting the warentee is invaluable information.

 

Ava

[CraigVM62 0]

Ava,

 

The 16 channel DVR I was suggesting is their Stand Alone DW-VMAX480D. I believe they just recently changed their warranties for the Stand Alones to 5 years and have not completely updated their website. I have their 2011 print catalog inhand which states 5 years as it is also stated under "features" from the product page found here:

 

http://www.dwcc.tv/product_dvrs/dvrs_main.asp?id=96

 

I don't know of any major manufactures that give prices from their websites. The majority of their products will be purchased and installed by professional contractors who rather the end customers not know what they payed for them. I do not know which, if any online retailers are considered to be Authorized by Digital Watchdog.

 

You are correct in the video motion easily being fooled with exterior cameras. In programming you can mask off areas so things like tree branches blowing in the wind will not cause needless recordings. Bugs, Birds and object in the wind that might fall near the camera will still be an issue. Like motion lights, you can set the sensitivity of the video motion. Problem is if you reduce the sensitivity to try to reduce false recordings, people and vehicles well in the background of the image will most likely not activate the recording. The only time that I utilize video motion recording for exterior cameras are if they are focused specifically on a door or entrance where there is nothing in the background.

 

There are several programs on the internet which allow you to calculate needed hardrive size for DVR's This one might be worth trying to get an idea of what you would need.

 

https://www.aventuracctv.com/calculator/default.asp?

 

hope that helps

[Soundy 1]

Keep in mind that storage retention times will vary WIDELY depending on a large number of factors, many of which aren't included in most of these storage calculators. The calculators (and there are lots of them out there) can give you a rough estimate, but there are so many things that affect the amount of data that can only be guessed at. For example:

 

Regular video (like you see on TV, DVD, etc.) is 30fps. This gives you nice, smooth motion, but eats a lot of data. Dropping to 15fps will still give smooth motion, virtually indistinguishable from 30fps on all but fast-moving objects, but use approximately half the space. Most people wouldn't even know the difference at 7.5-10fps, but you save even more space dropping to that level. Depending on the specific camera's coverage and requirements of that view, you can often get away with 1-3fps. See the following for examples: http://www.panasonic.com/business/security/demos/PSS-recording-rates.html

 

Codec makes a big difference: at high frame rates, H.264 can save a lot of space over MJPEG and MPEG-4, with relatively minimal loss of quality. At lower framerates, the benefit diminishes, where you might want to use a higher-quality codec with less impact (percentage-wise) on storage.

 

All codecs have various "quality" options - ie. higher compression vs. image quality. You can often save space without noticeable image degradation by tweaking this setting. Many standalones use options like "Normal", "Fine" and "Superfine" to define these different levels.

 

High-contrast scenes with sharp edges are less "compressible" than low-contrast scenes, or those with smoother, softer edges and transitions; calculators don't know what type of scene you'll have, so they can't take this into account.

 

B&W video takes substantially less space than color video (typically on the order of a 5:1 to 10:1 ratio).

 

On the whole, if you can run motion-detect with properly tweaked sensitivity and/or mask areas, at <10fps,

 

As suggested, using motion activation can save you a TON of space. There's no sense recording, say, an entry door while nobody's coming or going.

[rory 0]

They have a feature where you set how many days of recording you would like. The DVR then sets all cameras at the highest frame rate and resolution which will provide the number of days you requested.

There is no way for them to know this.

Even if they were to take snapshots of each connected camera and then calculate it based on those image sizes, Image size gets larger and smaller from motion in the video. Additionally if one did this at night and all the cameras are in BW, the image size would be much greater when it switches to color in the day. In addition to that, the image size also depends on the quality of the image, the camera used. As mentioned, storage calculators can only give rough estimates, most of which are generally too unreliable to warrant using.

[garyswine 0]

I am the loss prevention manager at Gary's Wine & Marketplace in NJ. We have three stores with our flagship store in Wayne, NJ at 24,000 sq ft.

 

In that store I have 4 servers manufactured by I3dvr out of Canada. In the Wayne store I have 64 cameras inside and out with a mix of fixed and PTZ's; with room for several more IP cameras. I find the I3dvr's to be of very high quality. I installed several 1tb drives in each and can go back two months at least. The software is easy to use and has many features like object search which allows you to block an area and set up search times and just walk away. Software will provide thumbnails every time something passes through the block.

 

I also have a total of five more I3dvr servers in our other stores.

 

I can monitor from any location including my home.

 

http://www.i3international.com/en/default.htm

 

Garyswine

[CraigVM62 0]

They have a feature where you set how many days of recording you would like. The DVR then sets all cameras at the highest frame rate and resolution which will provide the number of days you requested.

There is no way for them to know this.

Even if they were to take snapshots of each connected camera and then calculate it based on those image sizes, Image size gets larger and smaller from motion in the video. Additionally if one did this at night and all the cameras are in BW, the image size would be much greater when it switches to color in the day. In addition to that, the image size also depends on the quality of the image, the camera used. As mentioned, storage calculators can only give rough estimates, most of which are generally too unreliable to warrant using.

 

And yet they do have that feature ....

 

Page 65 http://publiclibrary.dwcc.tv/DVR/VMAX480/UserManual_VMAX480.pdf

 

I am not saying it will best best utilize the DVR's rescources based on each cameras capability, but it is a nice feature for those looking for an "EASY BUTTON" when setting up their DVR and have an idea of how may days of recording is needed.

I am also not suggesting that a Digital Watchdog DVR would be the best solution for the original posters needs, but using it as an example of how manufactures have made great strides in making todays DVR's more setup and user friendly.

[rory 0]

And yet they do have that feature ....

 

Page 65 http://publiclibrary.dwcc.tv/DVR/VMAX480/UserManual_VMAX480.pdf

 

I am not saying it will best best utilize the DVR's rescources based on each cameras capability, but it is a nice feature for those looking for an "EASY BUTTON" when setting up their DVR and have an idea of how may days of recording is needed.

I am also not suggesting that a Digital Watchdog DVR would be the best solution for the original posters needs, but using it as an example of how manufactures have made great strides in making todays DVR's more setup and user friendly.

Just cause they have a feature doesnt mean it works

But yes most DVRs have an easy setup wizard now when you first turn them on.

[rory 0]

So basically I need something that can handle up to 16 cameras ,lets say a terrabite for starters and dvd burner so I can make party favors for the boys in blue--- post problems. I need something dependable but not outrageous in cost. Probably would be nice to have simple net monitoring remotely but no I phone or that sort of frills is needed. Just the basic relive their moments with kodack and me being able to check up from afar on occasion would be peachy. What is a reasonable/realistic cost investment and dependable brand and model? I'd like to keep the dvr alone cost under 1500 if that's realistic. Probably a system that can later have memory expanded or additional drives added.

Check out the Dahua DVRs .. in fact if you could raise the price a couple hundred you could probably land the 32 channel which takes up to 8 x 2TB Sata Drives - I have a couple in the field, one with 6x 2TB WD Black drives. Plug the DVR in and its recording. anyway the normal 16 channel dahua is much less and holds 1x2TB Sata. Ofcourse there are alot of other good DVRs out there, Dahua is just one of the cheaper ones that have good features and works.

[fedup 0]

First off I want to thank all you guys for lending assistance and opinions. It is becoming a true education and I can see I'm going to have to immerse myself in this quite a bit even after purchasing the dvr.

 

Thus far my gut instinct leans towards the digitalwatchdog type Craig recommends. They have a distributor in my area so I plan a trip there and see what sort of sales demo or info they might be able to provide.

 

I'm a bit uneasy with dahau being made overseas and the delivery time and warranty potentials of shipping it back overseas .My regular business involved quantity purchase from overseas and I have had some rather nasty experiences dealing with certain countries.Not to say this company is disreputable but I am gunshy at this point with it's source. Perhaps that's unreasonable logic but I'm afraid to test those waters again.

 

I want to research this 13international Gary recommends so I'll do some reading on it's specifics. I've sort of set myself on needing loop outputs,reason being is I can send it to the old tape machines for back ,plus locate the tape units in a more visual spot so if someone gets in and trashes the tape decks they'll assume they trashed any video. Maybe that's stupid???

 

It's unfortunate that I haven't thus far found a store that sells several brands in my area like a stereo store would sell selections of amplifiers. Perhaps the watchdog distributor in my area sells more then one brand.I'm going to see if I can set something up monday to wander there.

 

My thinking on these calculators is maybe an arcane method sort of akin to how we use to build old tube gear, double the tolerances and one shouldn't have problems.So the number I come upwith I'll double and keep fingers crossed for the best,so again thanks for the link to the calculator and everyone's input.

 

As for cameras and motion, all my cameras are outside units,the building is fairly secure for an actual penetration but the damage externally is persistent and really annoying.Breaking a 1000 window is just as bad as someone getting in and stealing 1000 dollars of merchandise. product I have has little if any proverbial street value,but again idiots often don't know what's insode until they are floundering around saying man is this what we broke in for,still what's broken getting in costs me.

 

I've found many of the cameras that are day night with infrared led emission if put behind glass reflect back the led image exuding them from internally mounted for outside viewing with my existent gear. So basically everything is outside. Not sure what sort of glass is used on the dome cameras that are like a mirror but perhaps identifying that material might make it feasible to change a couple of glass panels to act the same and allow the infrared to function better. I have also contemplated mounting an infared high output flood to cover the yard area.there are some on ebay like 400.00 that claim up to 1000 ft illumination with a 150ftwide spread that can be softened in for closer range.If that works then it might solve motion lights.

 

Some of the technical info in Soundy's response I'mgoing to have to spend time deciphering.The terminology is a little off my radar so Ineed look upa few terms there.Again I'm an old broad and somewhat out of my element with digital.

 

Lot of bruhaha about windows based systems and linux embedded,is there really that much hack isk difference?

 

My many thanks again for all your efforts to help me, I appreciate it more then you know.maybe when allis said and done and I get this blasted thing up and running I'll do a bar-b-que and send open invite.

 

best wishes Ava

[rory 0]

I'm a bit uneasy with dahau being made overseas and the delivery time and warranty potentials of shipping it back overseas .My regular business involved quantity purchase from overseas and I have had some rather nasty experiences dealing with certain countries.Not to say this company is disreputable but I am gunshy at this point with it's source. Perhaps that's unreasonable logic but I'm afraid to test those waters again.

Literally everything is made overseas. As with other manufacturers Dahua has distributors that rebadge it and resell it under their name in the US, UK and other countries. Its hard to find something these days that isnt made in china or another country, even something as popular as a cellphone. FYI most US brands use products made overseas - if anything they customize the software in the US. Just a heads up, as there is ALOT of marketing hype out there these days, they all claim they are manufacturers.

 

I get my Dahua DVRs from a Miami DVR "Manufacturer"

Yet I get my updates from the real manufacturer in China

 

Here is just a small sample of the brands that use Dahua DVRs:

Q-See, XTS Video, EDGE, IC Realtime, MACE, GEN IV / Intellicam, AData

 

There are also alot of good Korean DVRs being sold in the US under various popular brand names.