shockwave199 0 Posted August 5, 2011 Is there no easy solution to be able to turn on a siren remotely from the internet and then turn it off again? I remotely monitor my home overnight via an eight channel CCTV system and it's great. But I wish that if I spotted someone on my property at 3am, I could give a quick siren hit on & off to scare them off. I've seen some crumby home automation software and I've seen a power strip of sorts that you can control via remote commands, but it was pricey. And I don't want to call into a module to do it via a phone call. Anyone have any ideas? I can't believe there isn't some simple IP siren these days. Oh well. Any help would be great. Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted August 5, 2011 Most DVRs have relay outputs of some sort... one of those could easily be used to trigger a basic 12VDC siren. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted August 5, 2011 Is there no easy solution to be able to turn on a siren remotely from the internet and then turn it off again? I remotely monitor my home overnight via an eight channel CCTV system and it's great. But I wish that if I spotted someone on my property at 3am, I could give a quick siren hit on & off to scare them off. I've seen some crumby home automation software and I've seen a power strip of sorts that you can control via remote commands, but it was pricey. And I don't want to call into a module to do it via a phone call. Anyone have any ideas? I can't believe there isn't some simple IP siren these days. Oh well. Any help would be great. Dan Google web relay for start Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted August 5, 2011 Most DVRs have relay outputs of some sort... one of those could easily be used to trigger a basic 12VDC siren. My dvr has 8 i/o alarm inputs and i/o output alarm, as stated in my manual. I never understood what the heck to do with this block, only that it's the alarm and ptz stuff. You mean to say that I could manually trigger a siren hooking up to one of those spots? I have to read up how to do that in the alarm page, which is available in remote view. But it's kind of vague about the settings and how I might trigger an alarm [siren] manually. Hmmm. But I THOUGHT maybe the capability could be right there on the dvr. Any further suggestions soundy? Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted August 5, 2011 use one of the alarm outputs on the DVR, to a relay connected to the siren then you trigger that alarm output using the DVR remote software. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birdman Adam 0 Posted August 5, 2011 (edited) For example, the Samsung I installed, it has 4 outputs. They put out 30VDC, with a maximum of 1.5A total. Get a nice big siren. So I would get a 30V normally open relay, hook it up to output 1. Then connect one side of the relay to a 12VDC source, and the other side to the positive connection of the siren. Negative connection of the siren goes to GND on the 12VDC source. IMPORTANT: Depending on your DVR, you may want to place a reverse-biased diode between the relay connections that the DVR will turn on. If your DVR uses transistors to switch these outputs, they may not like the high voltage spikes the coil in a relay puts out when it is switched off. I say that because I have fried some transistors before. That is a common practice when you are driving an inductive load from transistors. Now, I can open up my viewing software, connect from anywhere, and click on alarm output 1, and turn it ON. Freak out the loiterers, then shut it off. Maybe I will make a schematic to visualize this... EDIT: Edited August 5, 2011 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted August 5, 2011 Most DVRs have relay outputs of some sort... one of those could easily be used to trigger a basic 12VDC siren. My dvr has 8 i/o alarm inputs and i/o output alarm, as stated in my manual. I never understood what the heck to do with this block, only that it's the alarm and ptz stuff. You mean to say that I could manually trigger a siren hooking up to one of those spots? That's the idea! I have to read up how to do that in the alarm page, which is available in remote view. But it's kind of vague about the settings and how I might trigger an alarm [siren] manually. Hmmm. But I THOUGHT maybe the capability could be right there on the dvr. Any further suggestions soundy? Dan Check our aviary member's suggestions above. Note that you'll need to find out what voltage the alarm outputs provide, if any (some outputs are just switched contacts) and what current it's capable of, as not all are the same. The vast majority of alarm sirens you'll find will take 12VDC at probably well under 1A. As for how to trigger it manually, that too will depend on the DVR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted August 5, 2011 For example, the Samsung I installed, it has 4 outputs. They put out 30VDC, with a maximum of 1.5A total. Get a nice big siren. So I would get a 30V normally open relay, hook it up to output 1. Then connect one side of the relay to a 12VDC source, and the other side to the positive connection of the siren. Negative connection of the siren goes to GND on the 12VDC source. IMPORTANT: Depending on your DVR, you may want to place a reverse-biased diode between the relay connections that the DVR will turn on. If your DVR uses transistors to switch these outputs, they may not like the high voltage spikes the coil in a relay puts out when it is switched off. I say that because I have fried some transistors before. That is a common practice when you are driving an inductive load from transistors. Now, I can open up my viewing software, connect from anywhere, and click on alarm output 1, and turn it ON. Freak out the loiterers, then shut it off. Maybe I will make a schematic to visualize this... EDIT: That is exactly what I would LOVE to have in line, but the eletronics and the hookup is beyond me. That diagram alone loses me. I hate being ignorant to something that's probably so simple. I gotta first check my manual and hopefully it'll have a schematic to at least tell me what voltage I'm dealing with. But after confirming the numbers, I'm still lost. I'll have to keep reading up on this. I really appreciate all the info guys. There is a dim light at the end of this tunnel now. Birdman- do you find a 'latency' in turning the siren on/off remotely? As much as I want to do this, I have neighbors all around that would probably strangle me if I lost control over turning a siren off, or if my three second hit turns out to be a thirty second hit! Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birdman Adam 0 Posted August 5, 2011 Well, I have not actually implemented my schematic with the alarm outputs on my friend's DVR, but I would speculate that the lag between the button-press, and switching would be around 1-5 seconds. This includes network lag, computer lag, lag for the DVR to comprehend and turn on/off the output, etc, etc. So really, not a big deal. Basically, we need the model of your DVR, or a manual for your DVR, so that we can tell how to hook it up. as Soundy mentioned, each DVR may do switching a little different... I'm sure we'll be able to help you figure it out! BTW, here is an example of a relay you could use in my schematic: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Song-Chuan/833H-1C-C-24VDC/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtSzCF3XBhmW4FnUX%252bQIJUKjw8ell6ZwZI%3d Datasheet: http://www.songchuanusa.com/system/pdfs/20/original/833h.pdf?1254413815 Scroll to the third page, look at 1C schematic. The two points between that coil is what you would connect to the DVR output, and GND. Now there is a switched point, as well as two other points the switch touches. The switched point (one that can flip up or down), would be connected to the positive terminal of the siren. Then, the NO (normally open) point, (the one the switch is not touching by default), would be connected to 12VDC. Then you just connect the negative terminal of the siren to GND, and you're good to go. Hey, its my 500'th post! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted August 5, 2011 Congrats on your 500th! Here's the manual- http://q-see.com/files/manuals/QS-Manual_web.pdf I have the 408. I hate combined product manuals, I really do. Such as it is... Page 8 for the specs of the block on my dvr Page 23 for the alarm settings in the dvr Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birdman Adam 0 Posted August 5, 2011 Mmkay... The manual says yours has one alarm output, and 8 inputs. They have made this more way confusing than it needs to be... There is a NO, COM, and GND. Seems like maybe there is a small relay already inside. COM is the center of the relay (the part that flips), also called the pole. Then there is a NO contact that the pole, by default, does NOT touch. Now I don't know how big the relay is in there, so I would use it to drive a second relay we know can handle the load. So I would buy a 12VDC SPDT relay. Connect 12V terminal to COM terminal. Connect the coil connections of our second relay to NO and GND. Then connect a separate 12V supply (that can handle the siren, so probably 1A supply) to the center pole of our second relay. Connect the positive terminal of your siren to NO on our second relay, and connect the negative to the bigger 12V power supplies' GND. This is all a bit funkier than they had to make it... Before you do anything, take a digital multimeter, and set it to resistance measuring: -Measure between NO and COM with the alarm output OFF. It should read infinity, or at least a megaohm... -Measure between NO and COM with the alarm output ON. It should read less than 1 ohm. You may hear a small *click* when it turns on/off. Let me know what you find. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Numb-nuts 1 Posted August 6, 2011 I like this thread Fred ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted August 6, 2011 Mmkay... The manual says yours has one alarm output, and 8 inputs. They have made this more way confusing than it needs to be... There is a NO, COM, and GND. Seems like maybe there is a small relay already inside. COM is the center of the relay (the part that flips), also called the pole. Then there is a NO contact that the pole, by default, does NOT touch. Now I don't know how big the relay is in there, so I would use it to drive a second relay we know can handle the load. So I would buy a 12VDC SPDT relay. Connect 12V terminal to COM terminal. Connect the coil connections of our second relay to NO and GND. Then connect a separate 12V supply (that can handle the siren, so probably 1A supply) to the center pole of our second relay. Connect the positive terminal of your siren to NO on our second relay, and connect the negative to the bigger 12V power supplies' GND. This is all a bit funkier than they had to make it... Before you do anything, take a digital multimeter, and set it to resistance measuring: -Measure between NO and COM with the alarm output OFF. It should read infinity, or at least a megaohm... -Measure between NO and COM with the alarm output ON. It should read less than 1 ohm. You may hear a small *click* when it turns on/off. Let me know what you find. I really appreciate the help, but the chances of me doing that are slim. Oh well. If I get my act together I'll bump this thread sometime. An electrician I'm not and I don't wish to hose the dvr trying. But thanks a bunch anway! Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted August 8, 2011 According to the manual towards the end- ALARM I/O VOLTAGE 0-2V, low voltage, 5-30V high voltage In looking at my alarm settings in the dvr, I don't think the 408 supports manual triggering in this kind of setup. Darn. Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted August 8, 2011 Is there no easy solution to be able to turn on a siren remotely from the internet and then turn it off again? I remotely monitor my home overnight via an eight channel CCTV system and it's great. But I wish that if I spotted someone on my property at 3am, I could give a quick siren hit on & off to scare them off. I've seen some crumby home automation software and I've seen a power strip of sorts that you can control via remote commands, but it was pricey. And I don't want to call into a module to do it via a phone call. Anyone have any ideas? I can't believe there isn't some simple IP siren these days. Oh well. Any help would be great. Dan Hi shockwave. along with the DVR the remote software also needs to support voice. q.see pci cards have the option but not the standalone. but you do have a second option. you could use a pre recorded speech siren/ speaker. or record your own message. and run it along with a PIR sensor in the area you want to target. then on the q-see you can schedule the times you want the alarm to be active i.e 1am to 3am. optex beams do a speech. i have over 30 pre recordings if you want any. sample below. http://www.optex.co.uk/Site/downloads/3.mp3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Birdman Adam 0 Posted August 8, 2011 Dunno why but that voice cracks me up! That is another option though... Have a PIR motion detector sense movement, and trigger a voice or (short) siren. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted August 8, 2011 No, don't want voice at all. I don't want a PIR to trip anything either- much too risky tripping off an alarm I can't hear remotely. I simply [i had hoped] wanted to hook up a siren to the dvr that I could, remotely through the software, engage for a moment if need be. Turn on/off manually, remotely. Not sure my dvr can do this considering the settings I have in the alarm page. I see the newer model q-see dvr supports manual alarm triggering- it has a spearate software control button that turns it on/off and also has a spot for an IP address. Mine doesn't have a manual trigger button in the software. Only NO/NC/OFF. I thought maybe just switching to the oppposite- either NO or NC could trigger it manually, if something was hooked up. Seems like I may have to spend even more bucks for a web switch if I really want to do this. I was hopeful my dvr could somehow accomodate manually triggering a siren on and off, but if it ain't so, oh well. Adam- thanks so much for your help in trying. Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike_va 0 Posted August 9, 2011 If you can't get the DVR to work, I think you can do it with an Axis 241S (used around $100 ea). Here is a diagram from the manual, and I've added one of the four switches to the livepage in the second pic (upper left "output 1"). Disclaimer: I've not tried it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike_va 0 Posted August 9, 2011 Another way (if you like tinkering) is something like this: http://www.arcfn.com/2009/11/controlling-your-stereo-over-web-with.html I've done this (before I had any Axis 241S) and then used a IR relay board (around $50) which I've interfaced with the house lighting (Lutron RadioRa). Lastly, if you search around there are also other recommendation for IP based relay boards that have been mentioned on the forum in the past. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted August 10, 2011 Thanks for those suggestions Mike. Short of being easy with the dvr, I'll probably go with something like this- Either that or I'll just upgrade to a dvr that supports the function. I'm not much of a tinkerer. Plug & play all the way! Or, I might cheap out and go with something just as effective, only my remote switch would be a human- Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted August 20, 2011 Assuming I have everything hooked up, my alarm output options are off, NO, NC. If I just switch to the opposite of what is set for the siren, would that trigger it? Say it's all setup to NO. Would just switching to NC trigger it, and switching back to NO turn it off? Or perhaps choosing off would turn it off, and then back to NO to rest it. I don't have a simple trigger on/off in this dvr. I can't tell you how my head is hurting over this thing. I'm not sure whether to just get a 12VDC SPDT relay and hook it up as per it's directions to my dvr, or spend another 100 bucks or so on a separate web relay power strip, where you plug in appliances, such as maybe a siren if I can find one with a typical ac plug for power outlets, and trigger the outlets remotely. These web power strips look cool actually, but it's a LOT more money to invest if my dvr and a simple 12VDC SPDT relay can do the job. I so wish I knew this stuff. Any further insights are helpful. On page one of this thread I link to the manual and it's power specs for the alarm i/o and 12v slot for this. Anything further in extremely simple terms would be helpful. Thanks a ton. Another pdf for my dvr covering this- http://qsee.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/51/1307972717/redirect/1/filename/how%20to%20setup%20Alarm%20Recording%20-%20QS.pdf This is the siren I'm interested in- 6 to 12 volt DC combination speaker and siren driver Dual tone - warble or steady Enclosed wires, easily tampered 30 watt power rating Protective cabinet available (743BE) Built-in Tamper Plate protects wires from attack Could that be wired up to a typical wall wart power adapter in the event I get the web power strip? For the realy, this pdf- which would be the right scheme for my dvr? http://download.homesecuritystore.com/downloadmanual.aspx?FileName=ELK-912_Install.pdf Sorry for all the questions. Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
