Camera placement & wires

[ljnl 0]

Hi,

 

I'm trying to figure out the best way to setup cameras (and the needed wires) for home surveillance.

 

This is a map of my house + surrounding area:

 

 

(Red lines indicate the points of interest e.g. windows & entrances.)

 

The house is surrounded by a hedge which is about 2.20m in height. The yard is as good as obstacle free (there are some small trees but nothing that can block the view of a camera). The house itself is about 9m in height.

 

It's not possible to put cables under the parking area (it's sunken in cement, so I can't reach the ground underneath it).

At the rear of the house (the 16.80m wall) there is a solid stone floor (patio), so it's not possible to let cables enter the house via that wall because they would have to go over the stone floor and be visible.

 

Cameras:

I'm going for CNB VBM-24VF cameras (with a wallmount) connected to a AVTech AVC796(B) 8 channel DVR. I don't know exactly how many cameras I'll need at this point.

On the front of the house (bottom left corner of the picture) I'm planning to mount a AVTech AVN244 IP PTZ Speed dome on the second floor (to monitor the street).

The AVN244 is only for 'looking around' not for recording. So the front of the house still needs to be covered by a camera connected to the DVR.

 

Lights:

There is a decent amount of light coming from the street, but on the rear of the house I think I need some additional lights. This can me IR or floodlights (no neighbors on that side). I have to test the VBM-24VFs to see how the perform with the current light.

 

Cables:

I've read about a lot of options to wire the cameras but I'm kinda lost. I do like the idea of 1 cable per camera (combining power + video). I guess the needed cable depends on the distance of the specific camera?

I'm not sure if I want to place the DVR in the house or in the garage. But the DVR needs to be connected to the internet and there is currently no internet connection in the garage.

 

Some other info:

- The setup is not for identification, but just to see 'whats going on'.

- I'd like to stay away from drilling holes (yes, that's right )

- I'm not a big fan of camera posts/masts

- I have no experience in any of this so any help or advice is much appreciated

- I already own the AVC796 and AVN244 so that's what I'll have to work with

 

I'd like to see how you guys think about this project.

 

Thanks in advance for any tips, info & help!

 

All the best,

LJ

[Birdman Adam 0]

Wow - that is probably the most awesome layout I've seen - the picture makes it very easy for me to think about this!!

 

Here is my suggested layout. Its definitely not perfect, but just my first thoughts...

 

 

My setup requires 13 CNB's and one license-plate camera. So it would require a 16-ch DVR. The whole thing is overkill, but you could 'trim' cameras/angles you don't want to get it down to 8. This setup would provide good identification at all the red-line areas, as well as license plates.

 

Cables: cat5 w/baluns for sure. One pair for video, I use 2 pairs for power to minimize voltage drop. Extra pair for anything. PTZ camera should be powered by separate cable, 18/2. The video down one pair, data through one pair.

 

What do you mean by wall-mount? Those pendant things? Honestly I don't think that would look good on your house. It would be more discreet if you could flush-mount the VBM-24VF's under eaves or something? If not that, then just put them right on the wall. (The camera inside can be swiveled, rotated, etc to still have a perfect picture while the camera case is sideways.)

[ljnl 0]

the picture makes it very easy for me to think about this!!

That was the idea

 

Thanks for thinking with me on this!

You setup is indeed 'all out' In the future I might get more cameras to get better identification, but for now I just need a solid 'overview' setup.

 

I've played around in the CCTV Design Tool software. This gives some more insight on what I'm trying to accomplish:

 

The camera setup:

 

The camera views:

 

I'm looking at 5 x CNB VBM-24VF (the PTZ IP cam is not in this layout).

 

You have a good point on mounting the cameras sideways. It saves on costs and would look better indeed! Flush-mounting is not an option.

 

Oh btw, a small change in layout: I forgot about a greenhouse located on the left of the house (the grey square on camera view #4).

[fa chris 0]

For ease of installation I'd try to mount all the cameras on the house. You can put a camera or two on the north east corner of your house pointing over to your garage and it should cover the entrances there. Same with a camera pointing at your driveway. Might require different lenses, but very doable.

 

Prevents you from having to do any trenching and the servicability of cameras all on your house with all the wiring ran in your attic is much easier.

[ljnl 0]

Interesting, that would save me a lot of time in the yard! The only problem is that the house has many corners, it's impossible to see (overview) everything with a few cameras mounted to the house

[Birdman Adam 0]

That is a very good point Chris! Cameras viewing the parking entrance, greenhouse, and garage red-line areas could be viewed by a box camera with varifocal lens.

 

This may help you out with that:

 

BBM-24F with this lens GL0550AV

 

Then use an enclosure like this, with a bracket to mount it to the wall..

 

I think I'll update a picture in a sec... EDIT:

 

 

3 BBM-24F's in enclosures with 5~50mm lens have overviews on the garage, the parking entrance, and the greenhouse (did you need to watch this?).

 

All entrances can be watched by VBM-24VF's, some will be set to their widest to catch 2 doors at once. This setup is a lot more "whats-up" oriented.

 

I would mount all cameras to walls, and I think your going to need to drill *small* holes to get your cat5 into the attic, then down into a room with the DVR.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Guest

[ljnl 0]

That kind of bracket + enclosure is a no-go. It stands out to much on the house

I kind of like the low profile of the CNB dome camera, especially with the new idea to mount them sideways.

 

How about the idea of placing the DVR in the garage? In the current setup there are only 2 cameras on the house, and 3 outside.

Only thing that needs to be done is put a internet cable to the garage from the house

(Plus, I think I can manage to drill some holes in the garage wall )

[Birdman Adam 0]

I think that could work - but if you use domes you're limited to 10.5mm to watch the house from a rather far distance. If its not really for identification, this ought to be fine? Maybe some calculations are needed...

 

Something like this?:

 

[ljnl 0]

That looks good! I would need one more camera on the bottom left of the picture, to cover the front of the house.

 

if you use domes you're limited to 10.5mm

That's 'zoomed in', right? Most of the cameras should be between 2,8mm and 4mm. I want the wide view so each camera covers as much ground as possible (look at the 'Views' image above).

[Birdman Adam 0]

Yes, I believe the VBM-24VF's go from 2.8-10.5mm.

[ljnl 0]

Correct, ok, I'll try that 'garage based' layout in the CCTV Design Tool!

[tomcctv 190]

we seem to be making the camera fit the need for this install. but at night that CNB is going to be usless without lighting.

 

 

i would keep cameras on your home.

[ljnl 0]

at night that CNB is going to be usless without lighting.

 

I was under the impression that the CNB VBM-24VF works very well in low light?

http://www.cctvforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26832

 

The front of the house and the parking get some light from the street (I think it's enough for the 24VF).

At the back of the house I will need lighting (although it's never completely dark), but I think some IR or a wide spreading floodlight will do the trick. I have to try this when the cameras are in place.

[tomcctv 190]

I was under the impression that the CNB VBM-24VF works very well in low light?

 

 

they are good low light cameras. but not at 70-80 ft which is the least you are looking for.

 

like your camera 2 in you photo will not see your garage at night.

 

cam 4 will not see your house at night.

 

 

the CNB VBM-24VF is good for close work. i know you say you dont need identification. but if something did happen you wish you did.

[ljnl 0]

like your camera 2 in you photo will not see your garage at night.

The garage is about 55 ft from camera #2.

I do think you are right though, I will need some lighting. But I'll have to see what cameras need lighting once they are up (#2 and #4 are probably the ones, yes).

 

i know you say you dont need identification. but if something did happen you wish you did.

It's not like we have things of great value. Besides, the 'things' that do happen around here are all done by the same black clothed, cap wearing dude. In other words there is no way you can see their faces When we are not at home, they can try their luck, the house is rigged with a fine alarm system.

 

The camera system is more for when we are at home, so we can check the property with one look on the iPad or iPhone. And if something is detected, say at night, I can respond to it.

[ljnl 0]

Ok, let's talk a bit about the cables.

Cables: cat5 w/baluns for sure. One pair for video, I use 2 pairs for power to minimize voltage drop. Extra pair for anything. PTZ camera should be powered by separate cable, 18/2. The video down one pair, data through one pair.

I like to use 1 cable combined for video and power. And of course I like to keep the best quality.

In the worst case scenario the longest cable will be around 80 meters (260 ft).

 

What I'm thinking about:

or

 

Another possible option (for the most distant camera): wireless..

Small note: some cameras in my layout have a power source near them so this product (or something like it) could be used for the video feed:

Has anyone had any good experience with a wireless connection?

[tomcctv 190]

hi. i would use CAT5 and baluns not the lead kits you have listed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Birdman Adam 0]

Yup - stay away from the wireless. It is typically more expensive than cables of any kind, and quality is usually lost in transmission with cheaper systems.

 

cat5 with baluns is quite easy to do. If you can pull cables, strip wires, tighten screws, and remember colors, you are good to go! With coax, it seems to take more practice to get the connectors on properly. Plus coax is more expensive!

 

So buy a 1000' roll of UTP cable and some baluns. Maybe buy the cable in like gray, so it doesn't stand out anywhere it is visible. You can make connections inside the enclosure at the top of the VCM-24VF. Then run them out one of the portholes and into the wall/ceiling/etc.

 

One pair is used for video, then you have 3 other pairs for whatever you want! I use brown for video, orange (both wires) for positive, green (both wires) for negative in terms of power. When I did the system at the cabin I used the blue pair as a tamper loop that was connected to a zone on the alarm system. If anyone cut the cable, the alarm would go off!

 

[Soundy 1]

Another possible option (for the most distant camera): wireless..

Small note: some cameras in my layout have a power source near them so this product (or something like it) could be used for the video feed:

Has anyone had any good experience with a wireless connection?

Hahahah, that's funny, just for the "distance" contradiction

 

Wireless like this is functional to MAYBE 100' line-of-sight... less through walls, and with steadily dropping quality the further you go (at maximum range, you may have a picture, but it will be unwatchable).

[ljnl 0]

Wireless like this is functional to MAYBE 100' line-of-sight... less through walls, and with steadily dropping quality the further you go (at maximum range, you may have a picture, but it will be unwatchable).

I'll stay away from wireless

 

hi. i would use CAT5 and baluns not the lead kits you have listed.

One pair is used for video, then you have 3 other pairs for whatever you want! I use brown for video, orange (both wires) for positive, green (both wires) for negative in terms of power.

How would I connect the power to the cat5 cable? (from the power adapter to the cable, and from the cable to the camera)

 

EDIT: Ah, like this:

[Soundy 1]

How would I connect the power to the cat5 cable? (from the power adapter to the cable, and from the cable to the camera)

 

EDIT: Ah, like this:

You can use the neat little screw connectors like in that video, if the camera is 12VDC... or you can use terminal strips, your favorite type of crimp connectors, or if you're really hardcore, twist, solder and heatshrink.

[ljnl 0]

You mean soldering the camera power wires to the cat5 power wires? That sounds like the easiest option.. And I saves me buying screw connectors

[ljnl 0]

Ok, one BNC camera + a balun set on the way for testing.

 

Next up: floodlights.

I'm thinking about solar powered floodlights (to avoid more cables). Has anyone any experience on those kind of lights?

[Birdman Adam 0]

I have a solar floodlight at the beginning of my driveway. It has a lead-acid battery in it (12VDC, probably 5Ah), and a ~10"x10" solar panel above it. The light is incandescent. It has a motion detector that runs for 1, 3, or 5 minutes after motion. It works great!

 

I would step it up to LEDs, so you don't need to worry about runtime when the solar panel and battery gets old.

[shockwave199 0]

The only negative I encountered with solar is that the panel doesn't last very long. Couple of years or so getting beaten down by weather- especially winter- takes it toll on the solor panel itself. Moisture ruins them too, over time. If it's at all possible, I'd run a wired one and not have the worry. The very best, long lasting I've put in place is the simplest rig- a two bulb fixture with engery saving floods @ 90 watts each of light, using 70 watts each of power. I put it on dusk/dawn, but I have it set to be on low bright until it trips, and then it goes full bright. Even modest light helps with security and camera picture. Stay away from halogen bulb fixtures. You know the ones- they have that thin bulb that you shouldn't get finger grease on when installing or it will shorten the life of the bulb. They blow out much too frequently not matter what and the bulbs are pricey. My regular energy saving floods last for years and years. Good luck.

 

Dan