WirelessEye 0 Posted August 1, 2005 SP2 better and faster than SP1? Sorry. Perhaps it's better for security (except it's unintelligent blocking of safe controls), but my experience is that SP2 not only slows TCP performance (which has been proven), but also overall system performance. That experience is based on over 100 systems that have been upgraded from SP1 to SP2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob the b 0 Posted August 1, 2005 SP2 better and faster than SP1? Sorry. Perhaps it's better for security (except it's unintelligent blocking of safe controls), but my experience is that SP2 not only slows TCP performance (which has been proven), but also overall system performance. That experience is based on over 100 systems that have been upgraded from SP1 to SP2. I'd go along with that,it puts a load of security crap on that slows it for sure. Dont get me started on messenger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MetzLyov 0 Posted August 1, 2005 Data, why do you think Linux is not ready for "prime time?? Did you actually ever used it or even try using it?? Your response about Linux is the same as majority of the people who actually never used it or even followed its progress... I may understand that people may be hesitating to change and change is always difficult, but give me one good reason why someone should stay with Micro****.. Is it because their "stable" and bulet proof OS or is it the applications??? Or, people being lazy and all they do is complain regardless what you put on the table regardless how good it may be... I am not asking people to change and I really do not care what they do.. Rather, explore the best and most cost effective options available in OS world... In case of Linux, yes it is a different OS, yes it is somehow may look "difficult" to install and may be difficult to operate, but is it?? Here are basic questions that will help to understand why Linux vs. Microshaft: How often to you have crashes caused by your OS? What exactly do you do when it happens and how easy is it to recover? How often in the middle of your work, you get blue death of screen and can not explain what happened? When you are getting updates (not service packs), do you use them because you fear that your system may be hijacked or because?? How many times you had viruses causing your system crash or unstable? How often you have spyware causing your system go to ..... How about the costs of such OS and specially the applicatoins?? And many more... Look at the website in this thread and someone figured out to sell something that does not belog to them. In case of Linux, the whole community is writing and fixing any issues that ever come up and this is world wide assistance... You do not pay for the OS or pay for any of its applications and I am not sure if you can get any better deal.. In my case, I make contributions to any of the distros that I use at home or at work... I do not have to do it, but if a piece of software that I got that is free and available to anyone and such software increases my productivity, then least I can do is make such contributions... Well, I can tell you that it is virtually impossible to have virus attack or spyware to cause any problems on any Linux distro.. With over 20,000 stable and approved applications in the market, you have a replacement for any windows based apps that you want... How about stability? If for whatever reason your system gets stuck, you just restart the GUI and not the entire system... No defragmentation or scandisk needed ever, as it maps and make best use of your hard drives. I understand hardware failure and I do not understand in case of hardware, the questions is not if, rather when... but in case of Linux, you replace the defective hardware and then kernel takes over without any issues.. Ok, lets say you like to use some of your windows apps, you can run them on Linux using WINE feature, which is again makes your life simpler and with less problems... Data, all I am suggesting to you is that instead of being part of Microstaff followers, try something new and I will tell you once you do it and observe the results, you will never go back to them anymore.... It is your and everyone's call to decide to have a easier or difficult life with your OS... Choice is yours and coming from someone who has been using for over 10 years, I can tell you that Linux has been ready for "Prime Time"... Levon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted August 1, 2005 SP2 better and faster than SP1? Sorry. Perhaps it's better for security (except it's unintelligent blocking of safe controls), but my experience is that SP2 not only slows TCP performance (which has been proven), but also overall system performance. That experience is based on over 100 systems that have been upgraded from SP1 to SP2. the only reason id use windows Xp is for SP2 as its faster .. im a spead freak and i turn everything off totally, plus SP2 is more secure for your clients, SP1 just asks to be hacked by default. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VJD 0 Posted August 1, 2005 VJD, can you sell the product for less than its cost and still make profit??Levon Levon, I guess you didn't notice the in my post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VJD 0 Posted August 1, 2005 If you don't have a spare PC Rory, then try Knoppix. It's a live CD based distro (meaning it runs from the CD rather then the hard drive.) No install needed. Knoppix is Kewl. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas 0 Posted August 1, 2005 There are some things that are legitamately keeping Linux from the desktop. 1. Software installs. Installing software can be a massive pain. Too many installer types that don't play well together. Too many depenancys. 2. Drivers. Also a general pain in the rear. There are some other minor things, but these two are the major killers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DataAve 0 Posted August 1, 2005 MetzLyov I like Linux. It is just not ready to be installed on Joe, Jane, and Juniors computers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MetzLyov 0 Posted August 2, 2005 VJD, sorry, I did not see it... Levon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MetzLyov 0 Posted August 2, 2005 Thomas, I will concur with you only if you are using the latest and greatest PC hardware. Otherwise any PC hardware that is over 3 months or older, drivers are available... When you state software install can be a pain, it is only if you do not follow simple instructions.. Dependencies are great, as Linux will not allow you to install anything if the dependencies either not installed or not available... In case of Yast (installer for Suse), if you are installing any software or updating any part of any software, it automatically will download or delete any dependencies and give you a complete and clean install. There is no guessing or surprises if you follow very simple instructions.... Dependencies and the clean code is what protects this OS against any virus attacks or even spyware... I again concur the issue with drivers only if your hardware is the latest and greatest... At the time of the installation, it will give you what available on CD or DVD, but then when you are updating the system, it can give you latest available driver in any of the mirror sites... Chances are the distro manufacturer may not have or may not post such drivers, but there are quite of many other mirror sites that will and they do everyday. Thomas, I am not trying to convince you to change to Linux, but lets get the information streight... It is simpler to install and maintain Linux than any version of Windows, unless if you do not want to change and then no matter what we say and how we say it, will not make any difference... Levon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MetzLyov 0 Posted August 2, 2005 Data, that is fine... I know that my kids and family members all are on it and it works... Please do not misunderstand that I am trying to convince you, because I am not... Just relaying the reality from my stand point... Levon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas 0 Posted August 2, 2005 I'm not refering to the lastest greatest gear. There is still alot of trouble with wi-fi cards, USB devices, TV out on video cards, winmodems, ect. 95% of it is the manufacturers but the end user really doesn't care why his web cam doesn't work, all he cares about is that it doesn't work. Some of it will get better, but it won't be in the next year. I understand why dependancies can be good, but all the end user sees is I need to go spend X hours installing Y other programs to make foo work. And Yast, and Gentroo portage varient can make life easier for installs. (In fact that is why my fileserver/Samba/AD replacement/NAT box is Gentroo.) But they break down when I try to install something not thier repository. If I download a front-end for X program from freshmeat for some obscure program also from freshmeat or sourceforge, then things start breaking down. But there is a deeper issue from a software industry stand point. How do I get my closed source software to the end user? If I use .rpms then I exlcude Slack/Gentroo/Debian users. I use .debs then I exclude the Slack/Red Hat/Gentroo world. With a closed source product, then a source based install is out period. Window's has many issues with it from an design standpoint. Too many open ports on a default install. Active X. But Linux has it's issues. No binary compatabilty between verisons. Lack of manufacture support. Too much elitism in some of the support communities. (RTFM is a bad answer to give in a support channel.) I'm not attacking Linux, I use it. I would install it for someone who was going to have a very static system. But it is not ready for the mainstream desktop. It's a question of having the right tools for the job. There are times when Windows is the right tool, times when the Mac is the right tool, times where Linux is the right tool, times when *BSD is the right tool. And one last point, any OS is only as secure as the user makes it. Generally most Linux installs are more secure out of the box, but a dumb user can screw that up. Social Engineering can still get a root kit on your system. An error in a listening service can still get you ownned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MetzLyov 0 Posted August 2, 2005 Thomas, your points are well taken... Do you prefer Windows or Linux and why? You are stressing basics on what does make Linux "difficult", however are you really following the trend? Have you seen the latest Suse 9.3 or even 9.2 distros and ease in which it works with well known hardware? What you are descibing is real only if you are not up to date on what is going on.. I will quite using computers or even Internet if I have to go back to Micro...f. You are relaying some known issues with Linux, most of which are very manageable now than ever before and it is getting better and better everyday... I am not trying to have people to convert from their favorite OS, rather puting my two cents on why to use Linux. If you do not belive in it, then that is fine... But I will still argue that Linux offers more stability and better solutions than any favorite os based apps. If I want to design graphics, I use Mac and besides that, everything else I do is with Linux and it did not cause me any problems that I could not fix in 10 minutes vs. Windows related problems that are unmeasurable... Levon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas 0 Posted August 2, 2005 Which OS I use depends on what I'm doing. Windows for Gaming, Linux for Network based stuff and Mac OS X for when I have to use Office (I know we have some Mac haters but you really need to try office for OS X...it's actully usable!) . I don't belive in the "One true OS". I've tried the newer verisons of SUSE and it's pretty good, but I still ran into dependancy issues. Before I settled on Gentroo I tried out Mandrake (before they changed thier name) Suse, Red Hat, and Ubnuntu (Debain just scares me). All of them mostly work, all had minor issues but where fixable for me. For an average user they would have presented signifgant obsticals. The X config file for instance is not a good place to send an average user. (Side note here. The machine I use for Linux is a P3 with a Matrox Millenium II graphics card. Not high end obscure gear that is bleeding edge.) I think Linux is good on the desktop for something like a company, or somewhere where you have an admin situation. I don't think Linux is going to work for the average user. Too many choices, too much knowage needed. Dumbing it down leads to things like Linspire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted August 2, 2005 Which OS I use depends on what I'm doing. Windows for Gaming, Linux for Network based stuff and Mac OS X for when I have to use Office thats alot of work all that switching .. VB, Front Page, Word, Acrobat, Photochop and PSP all work fine on all my windows ... never had any issues .. (maybe its those corporation CDs i get) but i still want to mess with linux anyways Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas 0 Posted August 2, 2005 That is why the good lord invented the KVM switch. The windows box sits on my left, the linux fits on the right. The Mac is a laptop that is actully my wife's. But the Mac mini is tempting me. Honestly I don't use the Mac that much, I generally work in LaTeX for small documents, I only use office for Excel and large documents. All I have to do is double tap scroll lock twice and up and I'm in the next machine. If I go more then that then I will do double tap scroll lock and the machine number (1-. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted August 2, 2005 wouldnt it be nice to just have 1 computer though ... 1 back up, less power and less heat Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thomas 0 Posted August 2, 2005 I have a spare machine. The power draw for both machines is around $10 a month, including the excess heat generated. Considering I'm in Texas and my wife likes the AC cold....it's a really minor part of our electric bill. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted August 2, 2005 got a spare room ? my ac done died on me its melting hot in my appt this summer . ..... and my jeep got AC but its in the shop so cant even go in there for a break . . the beach, that water is hot too! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MetzLyov 0 Posted August 3, 2005 Thomas, you are rocking man... Three machines?? Wow! Well, I use (2) only and none of them have Micro...f The first one is based on AMD 64-bit processessor, SATA hard Drives, Double Capacity DVD R/W, 256M Video Card, etc and complete Suse Linux 9.2 64-bit version with all the latest and greatest updates and apps, OpenOffice (1.9 version), all the stable graphics software for video, pictures, vectors, the Audio and Video software to hear or view everything I need, etc... and tons of games that available (not that I have time to play them)... - I use this machine 95% at the time... Second one is a Mac G4 - do not ask me why, it is just because of their OS X ... Just wanted to find out what is going on in their world... Mainly using for graphics design purposes and reading or modifying CAD files for my projects... Of course, kvm switch to juggle between them... along with 19" LCD from Bosch... Third, fourth and the fifth machines (for my family members) all are based on Linux and I have not had any complaints specially from my kids on any limitations on games or anything else they need... At work, nothing but linux based workstations and notebooks. Servers are based on FreeBSD and running some (1) Shmindows app (one of the engineer needs it), but 99% Linux or FreeBSD apps... I think one of our engineers still using a notebook that came with XP, but it is matter of time until he changes as well.. Well, I will concur with some of your assessment and they are very vaild and it all depends what you really want to do... In my case, Microswift does not have any chance now or ever to be part of what I do! Levon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
