Daskew78 0 Posted September 20, 2011 Hi everyone, I'm having a lot of trouble finding a camera that works well in very low lighting conditions. I've even purchased a Raymax type industrial IR illuminator and still not getting good results from the two previous cameras I've tried. Please could someone suggest a REALLY good day and night vision camera that is actually good enough to identify someone at night rather than just being able to make out it's a human? My budget is about £500 per camera (I need 2) and they need to have IR built in (good for 20 meters or more) as the second camera won't have it's own independent IR illuminator. My wish list is as follows: 3 Megapixel or more 2048x1536 (1536P) (due to the area I would like to cover) POE (Power Over Ethernet) Auto focus (essential) Auto brightness, contrast.... etc (desirable) h.264 Support - yes iPhone \ iPad access Onvif compatible Can set different profiles for day and night, and can auto switch between them. Can turn off infra-red in night mode (for the camera that has it's own illuminator) WDR (kinda essential) XDNR (Extremely desirable) Sorry for the long list, most cameras can do most these things but the most important is the night vision, it really needs to be nothing short of excellent. Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted September 20, 2011 So what cameras have you used and that model Raytec did use? Also what is the distance to target and FOV? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Korgoth Of Barbaria 0 Posted September 20, 2011 How about new ACTi KCM-5211? Its 4 Mpixel with 18x optical zoom and autofocus. Rly good image at night, clear at day. Fast focus and easy installation. There is DNR, but no WDR or 2 profiles for day and night :/ here is sample at day that we made. Distance ~1400m If You don't need zoom try new IQeye SENTINEL cameras with auto focus (IQ86x Models). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daskew78 0 Posted September 20, 2011 Hi Guys, @ thewireguys - I've used Vivotek IP8332 before but not very good at night and not enough area that I want to cover, I need 3MP for the area. I've also used Surveon CAM3365 which gives an amazing picture during the day but not at night. And I cannot set day / night time profiles, so what's right for day time is not for night time and vice versa. I'm using this as my IR illuminator: http://www.advanced-led-technology.com/ir1.php (second one down IR312) and it's been set at 100 degrees. The max distance i'm trying to cover is about 30 meters, nothing major and the illuminator should easily handle that. We can tell it's working because we can see car plates reflecting from around 30 meters away, but it's not lighting up everything else as it should. Lastly I'm not sure what you mean when you say "FOV"? @ Korgoth Of Barbaria - Funny you should mention them because I've been speaking to that company about that exact camera. The problem is that yes they look good with an 18x zoom but I don't need that, I need excellent night vision. I've seen night time demo's of that camera which does look good but it's done where there is lots of street lighting, I'm in a much darker environment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daskew78 0 Posted September 20, 2011 This is the area I'm looking to cover front and back. The front is where I use the illuminator, the back (main road side) isn't as bad as the front because there is a small amount of light from a nearby street lighting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dec88 0 Posted September 21, 2011 Hi Daskew, I have to tell you that that isn't a RAYMAX illuminator from Raytec. You may get better results with a real Raytec illuminator. Good night time performance with IP cameras is getting much easier. Lots of the big manufacturers, Axis, Arecont, Sony, Mobotix etc, can all provide cameras with good low light performance now. See an example of a good 5MP camera here www.raytectapp.com It is a password protected site but enter: username = arecont password = tappav then click on the resource centre to see the 5MP camera We've tested all the major brands and they all have a good low light camera, this is just an example. Hope this helps... it's always better to see the results that can be achieved rather than read a spec sheet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted September 21, 2011 Yes the IR unit that you are using is a rebranded Iluminar unit see here> http://www.iluminarinc.com/ Also not sure a 3MP camera will give you the results you are looking for you might night want to go to 5MP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daskew78 0 Posted September 21, 2011 Hi guys, I already know the device iluminator i'm using isn't a RAYTEC / RayMax, I said it's that "type" of device. The one I'm using isn't a re-branded Iluminar.... The Iluminar is a re-branded one from Advanced LED technology where I bought it. Iluminar are their distributor over in the US, he makes them himself and claims they are better than the Raymax ones because he used to work for Raymax and develop them before setting up on his own. So knows all about them and apparently they are better. In regards to the camera I've decided to try the Sony SNC-CH280, this has a 1/2.8 Exmor sensor which is the latest and greatest (apparently) and as it's just night vision that i'm having the problem with I hope it will fix my problems (but break my bank balance). Anyone with any experience with these cameras please do let me know if I've made a good/bad choice? Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dec88 0 Posted September 21, 2011 (edited) We recently tested the SNC-CH280. But the footage is raw. Send me your e-mail and I'll show you the footage. (the footage was for testing only and is no good for marketing - cameras FOV was wider than the IR for example as we were testing multiple cameras at once). We recently held a Sony Test night in the UK. A closed doors test night between Raytec and Sony. The units we tested were: SNC-EP580 SNC-CH180 SNC-CH280 SNC-DH180 SNC-EP550 One of those cameras isn't released yet... .but don't ask me which one. Edited September 23, 2011 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daskew78 0 Posted September 21, 2011 I think i'd be embarassed asking that but for anyone in the future reading this please bear in mind it might not be him. I've pm'd you pal, looking forward to seeing these. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pavel1883 0 Posted September 21, 2011 Here is the Panasonic wv-SP306. http://videobits.net/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike_va 0 Posted September 21, 2011 Hi Guys, I'm using this as my IR illuminator: http://www.advanced-led-technology.com/ir1.php (second one down IR312) and it's been set at 100 degrees. The max distance i'm trying to cover is about 30 meters, nothing major and the illuminator should easily handle that. We can tell it's working because we can see car plates reflecting from around 30 meters away, but it's not lighting up everything else as it should. Lighting up a plate which is reflective is MUCH easier than a person. It does not appear that IR you've got is rated to that distance, you should probably cut in half any stated rating and then realize that MP cameras need even more light than analog at decent shutter speeds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HTElectrical 0 Posted September 21, 2011 Hi Daskew,I have to tell you that that isn't a RAYMAX illuminator from Raytec. You may get better results with a real Raytec illuminator. Good night time performance with IP cameras is getting much easier. Lots of the big manufacturers, Axis, Arecont, Sony, Mobotix etc, can all provide cameras with good low light performance now. See an example of a good 5MP camera here www.raytectapp.com It is a password protected site but enter: username = arecont password = tappav then click on the resource centre to see the 5MP camera We've tested all the major brands and they all have a good low light camera, this is just an example. Hope this helps... it's always better to see the results that can be achieved rather than read a spec sheet. Those videos are basically useless IMO. The FPS looks to be around 2 or 3, which is pretty sad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daskew78 0 Posted September 22, 2011 Can someone please tell me what HOV and FOV is please? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HTElectrical 0 Posted September 22, 2011 I know FOV is Field of View Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HTElectrical 0 Posted September 22, 2011 High Occupancy Video Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HTElectrical 0 Posted September 22, 2011 ** HOV Heavy Occupancy Vehicle ** HOV Heartbreak on Vinyl (Blake Lewis album) * HOV Hamburger Omnibus Verein eV (Germany) * HOV Hydraulically Operated Valve * HOV Hand of Virtue (Everquest gaming) * HOV Haunch of Venison * HOV Heat Of Vaporization * HOV Heckscher-Ohlin-Vanek (trade model) * HOV High Occupancy Vehicle * HOV High Octane Vehicle (racecar) * HoV Hill of Vision * HOV Hoogwaardig Openbaar Vervoer (Dutch: High Quality Public Transport) * HOV Hospital Outpatient Visit * HOV Hover Possible Meanings Rank Hartija Od Vrijednosti ***** HIGH OCCUPANCY VEHICLES **** Hospice of the Valley **** Hands Off Venezuela *** High Order Virtual *** Heads of Veterinary *** Healing Our Village *** Handbook of Vastu *** Human Occupied Vehicle *** Heart of the Valley *** Helderse Ondernemers Vereniging ** Hands on Virtual ** High Occupancy Vechicle ** Hybrid Only Vehicles ** Higher Occupancy Vehicles * High Ocean View * High Occupancy Video * High Occupancy Vagina * Hydraulic Operated Valve * Hand Operated Valve * However in Virginia * Hawaii Our Visit * History Of Violations * Hollywood Online Video * Hurricane Opal Video * Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike_va 0 Posted September 22, 2011 See an example of a good 5MP camera here http://www.raytectapp.comIt is a password protected site but enter: username = arecont password = tappav then click on the resource centre to see the 5MP camera We've tested all the major brands and they all have a good low light camera, this is just an example. Hope this helps... it's always better to see the results that can be achieved rather than read a spec sheet. Those videos are basically useless IMO. The FPS looks to be around 2 or 3, which is pretty sad. Perhaps a sign that they are using a very slow shutter speed...it would be nice if the "results" achieved specified the shutter speed... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HTElectrical 0 Posted September 22, 2011 Yeah, after I wrote that I thought that it might be more like the shutter speed, but basically it has the same result. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daskew78 0 Posted September 22, 2011 I know FOV is Field of View Thanks, I'm guessing HOV is hight of view then? (edit), didn't realise this had gone onto 2 pages and explain on this page.... cheers(/edit) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dec88 0 Posted September 22, 2011 agreed. those videos look like a very slow shutter speed. All our recent videos are at least 1/30 shutter speed. Take a look at our Axis mini site www.raytectapp.com username: axis password: tappax As I say, we've tested a bunch of cameras from different manufacturers. These are not intended as full technical tests, but more as a practical approach to show what is possible. You might all be interested in our White Paper for lighting with Network Cameras. Found on this page http://www.rayteccctv.com/education-centre.aspx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daskew78 0 Posted September 22, 2011 Have got my new cameras up and running now (Sony SNC-CH280) and my problem is solved. Finally a decent night time image. Im using it with the IR Illuminator from advanced LED tech and its nothing short of an amazing night time image. Will post an image soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daskew78 0 Posted September 23, 2011 Well here's the final results, I'm no expert but I'm very happy with the results (serious dent in my bank balance though)..... No IR With IR from Advanced LED Tech Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nDAlk90 0 Posted September 23, 2011 I don't understand why you installed the camera so high. You will never see anyone's face with that height!? Well here's the final results, I'm no expert but I'm very happy with the results (serious dent in my bank balance though)..... No IR With IR from Advanced LED Tech Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted September 23, 2011 I don't understand why you installed the camera so high. You will never see anyone's face with that height!? but with megapixel you can zoom in on their bald spot and ID them from that. nice crisp shots of the cars though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites