Questions for you PRO CCTV Intallers..?? Pay? Misc? Q n A?

[johnny916 0]

Hi, I've been installing simple 4-8 Camera DVR Systems here and there but want to take it to the next level now.

 

 

For all you pros out there I would appreciate any feedback you can give on any of the following questions:

 

1. How much do you charge to install simple 4-8 camera DVR systems? How much $ per cable run?

 

2. I've got a few requests to run cable inside walls and had to decline because I didn't want to mess up their wall and not even find the damn cable. What are your thoughts, prices, and labor challenges of running CCTV cables through residential walls?

 

3. What are you MUST HAVE tools/equipment when doing an average CCTV install?

 

4. What steps do you take (and in which order) when installing a system?

 

5. What type of CCTV installations should I as a fairly new installer pass or get help on? I am highly trained in electrical trouble shooting, and computers/internet not so much on CCTV systems but know the basics.

 

6. Any other advice or educational material I can look into?

[Birdman Adam 0]

I'm a DIYer, but got some answers that I think still apply :

 

1. If I was to do this for a living, I'd mark up the equipment a certain percentage, then add on an hourly rate.

 

2. I have avoided running through finished walls. I always try to run in attics/unfinished basements. There are supposedly some magnetic tools which will help you pull stuff.

 

3. So many things I don't know where to start. I'd get a truck to drive around in to hold all my crap.

 

4. First thing I've done is scope everything out. In terms of exactly what we want to see, and how well we want to see it. Then I match that to equipment. Think about the price some, negotiate that if necessary. Then I think about how to run wires. Then install! Probably pull wires first, then mount equipment. DVR setup last. Then final testing and showing the client how to work it all easily.

 

6. I've heard of a good book on CCTV. Can't remember the name...

 

Do you guys need to be licensed and/or insured to install CCTV? I've always wondered this...

[Soundy 1]

Hi, I've been installing simple 4-8 Camera DVR Systems here and there but want to take it to the next level now.

 

 

For all you pros out there I would appreciate any feedback you can give on any of the following questions:

 

1. How much do you charge to install simple 4-8 camera DVR systems? How much $ per cable run?

We usually do the install on a per-hour labour basis (hourly labour rate, estimate the time it will take to install), plus estimated materials. Don't forget to factor in parts like connectors, power supplies, shop supplies (wire loom, zip-ties, etc.), conduit if necessary, etc.

 

2. I've got a few requests to run cable inside walls and had to decline because I didn't want to mess up their wall and not even find the damn cable. What are your thoughts, prices, and labor challenges of running CCTV cables through residential walls?

It would be the same labour rate, of course... main challenge with residential walls is insulation stuffed in walls, although that's usually only a factor on outside walls. In commercial situations, you more likely have insulation in some interior walls, firestops in walls, etc.

 

3. What are you MUST HAVE tools/equipment when doing an average CCTV install?

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4. What steps do you take (and in which order) when installing a system?

Depends somewhat on the specific installation - I usually like to get the worst part out of the way first, which usually means pulling in the wiring.

 

5. What type of CCTV installations should I as a fairly new installer pass or get help on? I am highly trained in electrical trouble shooting, and computers/internet not so much on CCTV systems but know the basics.

Anything you feel particularly uncomfortable with. If you feel a LITTLE BIT uncomfortable, go for it - we learn best by pushing our boundaries Just be prepared, if you're working from a quoted price, to eat a little profit if things take longer than you expected Consider it cheaper than the cost of schooling

 

Do you guys need to be licensed and/or insured to install CCTV? I've always wondered this...

Depends on the location. Some jurisdictions have strict licensing/certification requirements... others have none. Insurance is probably a good idea even if it's not required. If you're doing it as a business, you'll probably need the appropriate business license(s), especially if you're going to do any work that requires building permits.

[johnny916 0]

Wow thanks! I have many more questions so hope to see you soon.

[bigcatbobcat 0]

Yeah Johnny, I was in the same boat as you about a year ago. I learn by doing. If you're good at troubleshooting, thinking things through rationally and whatnot, definitely just do your best and clean up along the way and keep track of "Oh man, won't do that again" or "Man, there must be a tool for this" or "That worked out well, I'll try that again."

 

Tools, I've found, you just need a cordless drill, something to hold your spool of cable, fish sticks, electrical tape (I LOVE ELECTRICAL TAPE), the usual handy man type tools, hand tools and whatnot. When you think about it, the installs are easy, it's the building you're putting them in that are often the issue, so you need tools and stuff to deal with that. Our largest job that I took on by myself was a car dealership in a renovated old house that has some serious additions and the only thing I didn't have were assorted wood screws and whatnot. You know crimpers, strippers and all those specialty tools for this business, but like I said, making our stuff go in weird places is where you get creative.

 

As for pay, you make whatever you think is fair and what will get your name out there but not so low that you can't turn a profit. In our case, we thought we'd sell these jobs and have installers come in. Pro guys who do banks and the CCTV is a side deal. Well, we got in a negotiation with a guy in a C-Store and figured we'd given away all our profit if we were going to pay an installer. So, we figured it out and did it ourselves. It wasn't pretty, an 8 camera system shouldnt take 2 guys 3 days to do but we did it, we got great pictures too (did i mention we used premade cable back then?). So we started to think of our time as free, and that's simply not the case.

 

The Way I'd like to price out jobs, is a slight mark up on the equipment and then what we'd be charged by the contractors we used in the beginning, which was $75 a camera and $0.25/foot for cable. I don't know how they came up with those numbers and not hourly, but that's what they charge.

 

We now bang out 8 camera systems in about 5-6 hours...thank goodness.

 

I feel like I could go on and on about it, because it's so far outside of what I thought I'd be doing and I'm kind proud of myself for learning it.

[bigcatbobcat 0]

Something I didn't think of in my original post, just thought of it when I was emptying my pockets, SCREWS! I use dry wall screws where ever I can, especially in ceiling tiles and of course, drywall but in other things like wood and stuff, they've got deep threads which I like. But you'll need an assortment, and lengths vary as well. I never ever use the anchors or screws that come with the cameras, just think the drywall screws usually work perfectly. Tapcons, dry wall screws, sheetmetal screws are the main ones.

[rory 0]

some handy tools and supplies for CCTV service

 

small cutters

orange wire nuts and yellow wire nuts

electric tape (white/other colors, and black for covering photocells to test)

tie straps

phillips and straight screwdrivers

small screwdriver kit

assortment of alan and security keys

bnc connectors

bnc male and female with short lead (eg. cut off from old DVR pigtails and or from DIY cables)

rca-bnc and bnc-rca connectors male and female

sheetrock screws

12vdc plug in power supplies (eg. 1x 500ma and 1x3.5A+-)

24VAC transformer (50VA)

RCA cable with ends

RG59 coax (eg. 10-20')

18 awg power cable (eg. 10-20')

Terminated cat5 cable

Power jacks both ways (eg. screw or push in / cut off from old cameras and or power supplies)

Meter

Portable Monitor

Focus Monitor

Netbook

USB Flash / hard drive with software

Glass cleaner

Rubbing Alcohol/Alcohol wipes

Eyeglass cleaner cloth (for lens cleaning and some sensitive poly-carbonate domes)

Microfiber Cloth (for most cameras)

Black T-shirt/towel for cover when using monitor in sun

 

And .. a hat and multiple shirts for the summer months.

Hopefully you can fit this all in one laptop bag or backpack or toolbag - i use an old 10" portable DVD case for the smaller essential tools.

 

Dont forget the self defense tools for the Ghetto jobs!

 

But there is always something that you will need and you will never have but will remember seeing it somewhere

 

for installation/larger jobs add things like cordless drill, drill bits, stainless steel screws, wall plugs, staples/wire nail clips, ladders, snake, etc.

[johnny916 0]

Great info! What about conduit? Do you run your cables through or just run the cables? For both indoor and outdoor..

[thewireguys 3]

Check to see if you need a license to sell and install CCTV in your state.

[rory 0]

Great info! What about conduit? Do you run your cables through or just run the cables? For both indoor and outdoor..

Personally I dont run any conduit, I outsource to an electrician.

Indoor apps though I normally run all the cable.

[Birdman Adam 0]

I'd only run conduit if the cable is either outside or in risk of being tampered with. Inside it typically goes in walls...

[rory 0]

Inside it typically goes in walls...

Here we cant as most interior walls are brick

So wire mold becomes your best friend.

[johnny916 0]

Is it really necessary to run conduit outdoors? The cable is already going to be pretty high, is it solely for protection from people trying to cut the lines?

[rory 0]

Water, heat, rats, etc.

Will it work without conduit outside? Sure maybe for years.

Is it recommended? No.

[nDAlk90 0]

PVC Conduit is so cheap that putting it makes sense if the wire is to be run on the outside of a building.

EMT Conduit can be used if you are worried about vandals.

GRC Conduit if you are really worried.

 

Water, heat, rats, etc.

Will it work without conduit outside? Sure maybe for years.

Is it recommended? No.

[Birdman Adam 0]

Yea, plus most coax and cat5 is not rated to be exposed to the sun constantly. So over the years the insulation will deteriorate. May or may not be a problem, but I'd rather just use some PVC conduit.

[johnny916 0]

Thanks, I think I'll choose PVC.. But what's the best technique for getting it through the conduit and across a 400' building? Do I string one pipe at a time?

[nDAlk90 0]

Do you mean how to get the wire through the pipe?

 

I would put a pull string in it and then pull the wire. But at 400ft, you will need 40 pieces of 10ft long conduit. For this reason keep the bends and turns in the conduit at a absolute minimum.

 

Thanks, I think I'll choose PVC.. But what's the best technique for getting it through the conduit and across a 400' building? Do I string one pipe at a time?

[rory 0]

PVC Conduit is so cheap that putting it makes sense if the wire is to be run on the outside of a building.

EMT Conduit can be used if you are worried about vandals.

GRC Conduit if you are really worried.

 

Water, heat, rats, etc.

Will it work without conduit outside? Sure maybe for years.

Is it recommended? No.

 

its cheap but not that cheap.

$10 a strip, labour to trench yard, join and bend the conduit etc .. all adds up.

[rory 0]

Thanks, I think I'll choose PVC.. But what's the best technique for getting it through the conduit and across a 400' building? Do I string one pipe at a time?

hire an electrician. You need PVC glue and a torch to bend them.

[nDAlk90 0]

Its not $10.00 in the U.S rory. Its much cheaper then that. Closer to $2.00

 

its cheap but not that cheap.

$10 a strip, labour to trench yard, join and bend the conduit etc .. all adds up.

[Birdman Adam 0]

Well anyone can glue PVC together... Don't sniff the glue or the cleaner too much!! Pull a pull string through first, then use the to pull another string (for possible future use) and your wire.

 

If you've got a heat gun and something to smoothly bend the PVC with, then you can bend it. There is a tool electrician use, cannot remember the name of it! Even without heat, if you bend PVC more than the angle you want, it will bend back to a certain angle.

 

Otherwise buy pre-bent pieces if you want...

[HTElectrical 0]

You can't use PVC above ground, only use EMT.

[rory 0]

Well anyone can glue PVC together... Don't sniff the glue or the cleaner too much!! Pull a pull string through first, then use the to pull another string (for possible future use) and your wire.

 

If you've got a heat gun and something to smoothly bend the PVC with, then you can bend it. There is a tool electrician use, cannot remember the name of it! Even without heat, if you bend PVC more than the angle you want, it will bend back to a certain angle.

 

Otherwise buy pre-bent pieces if you want...

Anyone can mount and point a camera plug in a DVR write software too and change toilets and clean pools and .... but do they?

 

Why spend a week in someones yard inhaling glue getting heat and sun stroke getting bitten to pieces by viral mosquitoes for little pay ... when one can just hire a team of labourers to do that in a couple hours - eg the electrician

 

Also you are forgetting a drill and drill bits large enough to make a hole the size of the fat conduit, trenching up their landscaping, burying the conduit, possibly cutting across cement path or asphalt, and then some ....

[nDAlk90 0]

The PVC I have seen always is rated and can be used above ground with direct sunlight. What PVC do you use?

 

You can't use PVC above ground, only use EMT.