Can't see facial details

[vmgtlexi 0]

Hi Folks,

 

I know the location of my camera makes this a challenge. But, due to the bright light out in the yard, people on my porch appear as mostly black silhouettes. The camera is adjusting to the distant bright light and, accordingly, people on the porch are effectively underexposed, sometimes faces totally blacked out.

 

I turned on the SSDR (Samsung's version of "wide dynamic range") and it helps only a little bit. Given the porch photo attached herein, I am asking for suggestion on how to best see people's faces, clothing, etc. in the brightness of daytime.

 

I am open to all suggestions - camera relocation, new camera in this spot (maybe a pinhole/door camera, etc.).

 

I'd hate to take this current camera and simply point it at the door b/c it's got longer-range capability. I can always move this camera somewhere else where it can serve a purpose; perhaps that will allow me to install a camera that will do a better job of seeing faces in the daytime.

 

The floor is yours -- please advise at will.

 

[chaz 0]

Try a camera with a pixim chip in it. i've found them to better than some of the so called wdr cameras. the pixim web site will tell you which cams have the chips

[Birdman Adam 0]

Well a true double-scan WDR camera would certainly handle this a lot better. I'd bet this camera has digital WDR, which can help some but is not nearly as effective as true WDR.

 

If this camera has any other settings like BLC this may help the situation. really the problem is this camera is adjusting for the brightness. If you were to aim it mainly away from the bright yard, it would perform much better.

[nDAlk90 0]

Its funny isn't that a Samsung camera? The picture is not that great for a brand name like that. It probably does not have a mechanical WDR function.

[Birdman Adam 0]

I'd say its got a good picture, although I dunno what it costed. Its just not good with lots of brightness differences.

 

The more I think about it, I'd probably turn the camera to the left some.

[nDAlk90 0]

I have seen better picture from cheaper cameras.

 

I'd say its got a good picture, although I dunno what it costed. Its just not good with lots of brightness differences.

 

The more I think about it, I'd probably turn the camera to the left some.

[rory 0]

SSDR is just a basic dynamic range, this is an example of their true WDR cameras:

http://www.samsungcctvusa.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=285

[rory 0]

Its funny isn't that a Samsung camera? The picture is not that great for a brand name like that. It probably does not have a mechanical WDR function.

Yep they have TDN.

But have to remember, alot of things factor into the quality we are seeing, the compression and evidence sharing of the DVR, and even the focusing of the camera and settings of other features.

 

I used 13 CNB Box cameras side by side with several year old Samsung Box cameras, and the Samsungs blew the CNBs away literally. And 2 of the CNBs were the CNBs best WDR, in fact the monalisa box cameras turned out to be better with backlighting than the WDRs. BUT, every camera is different, and these are just small board cameras in bullet housings, with cheap Microvarifocal lenses.

[vmgtlexi 0]

I think I may move this camera to the other end of the porch (above the rocking chairs). I will point it back at the front door (the area where this camera is currently mounted). That way, I will still have a clean image of the front windows, as well as solve the "blacked out" problem of people's faces.

 

Then, I'll add another camera looking at the driveway.

 

Thoughts? Criticisms? Suggestions?

[nDAlk90 0]

This might work better during the day since you will be pointing in the same direction as the sun and not against it like now. However when the sun begins to set your image may be not so great. I would put a second camera closer to the door also to get better shots of faces.

 

I think I may move this camera to the other end of the porch (above the rocking chairs). I will point it back at the front door (the area where this camera is currently mounted). That way, I will still have a clean image of the front windows, as well as solve the "blacked out" problem of people's faces.

 

Then, I'll add another camera looking at the driveway.

 

Thoughts? Criticisms? Suggestions?

[vmgtlexi 0]

Thanks. That's an idea too. What kind of camera does one buy for outdoor color closeups of faces? Something like this (not necessarily Samsung, but along the lines of this size/design)?

 

http://www.samsung-security.com/products/security-cameras/analog-cameras/box-cameras/SCB-3020.aspx

[nDAlk90 0]

http://www.seco-larm.com/pdfs/Pi-EV-5105-N1SQ.pdf

[vmgtlexi 0]

Wow, that is sweet!! But, I can't fish wires behind these walls. I have to get something that can be ceiling mounted or surface mounted with wires going up the wall.

[nDAlk90 0]

Put a single gang box on the wall and run conduit to it. Mount the camera in the surface mount box.

 

Wow, that is sweet!! But, I can't fish wires behind these walls. I have to get something that can be ceiling mounted or surface mounted with wires going up the wall.

[vmgtlexi 0]

Like this...?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-R04-42777-00W-Single-Gang-Surface-Wiring/dp/B000VTRMD8

[nDAlk90 0]

That's fine.

 

Like this...?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-R04-42777-00W-Single-Gang-Surface-Wiring/dp/B000VTRMD8

[rory 0]

Like this...?

 

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-R04-42777-00W-Single-Gang-Surface-Wiring/dp/B000VTRMD8

Except get a weatherproof one if its going outside.

Local electrical store would have them.

[vmgtlexi 0]

Thanks a million everyone. I may end up leaving the existing Samsung camera as is for driveway work. Then, add a new camera at the far end of the porch zoomed in to the door area for facial/clothing ID purposes; it won't have the sunlight issue.

 

That solution would keep all wires hidden up in the attic as opposed to the Seco-larm which would force me to have conduit on our front porch (wife will NOT approve).

 

And, since I will now be going over 4 cameras, I'll just have to get a new DVR (don't tell my wife).

[shockwave199 0]

I think the far end of the porch would be a mistake. You have only a quick shot of someone coming up those steps and it looks like it'll only be a profile. And you'll have to be lucky to get that as I would guess most people walk on an angle of sorts heading up those stairs while looking towards the door. The rest of that whole shot is shooting people in the back. If anything, do a temporary install on the far side, maybe just putting it out the window there and have someone hold it in place just to see if that shot yields anything better. I would be surprised if it does.

 

Do you have an exterior light at that door? Could be the easiest thing is to put a CFL bulb in there for big energy savings and keep it on full time. Looks kind of dark anyway there at that door. Nothing can really be suggested without pictures of the door way and where the camera is now. How can we guess what that wall is all about without a picture or two of what you have to deal with and how everything is situated there? More pics needed.

 

Keep in mind that even dumb criminals know enough to wear hats and hoodies to obscure and hide their faces, so most of the effort goes largley nowhere. If you want to see yourself and the missus rocking in those chairs or the mailman and delivery people fine- they have nothing to hide. But crooks know better. You're likely to only see a better shot of a face that's mostly hidden. But I get it- you have to at least try. More pics needed please- not from the cctv cam, but pics of the space. And I tell you what, my cameras handle extremes like that much better than that samsung is doing. Could be a different, and not always more expensive, camera would do better.

 

Dan

[nDAlk90 0]

I agree that Samsung model seems to be a pretty poor camera. I have seen $50.00 cameras handle wide dynamic range better then that. I think that camera should be returned if possible and another camera can be bought with an actual mechanical cut filter and real WDR feature.

 

I don't know about you but I would strongly consider the Secolarm camera. Look at where your doorbell button is, sometimes the wire the builder uses has more then 1 pair and you have an extra pair which you can use.

 

And I tell you what, my cameras handle extremes like that much better than that samsung is doing. Could be a different, and not always more expensive, camera would do better.

[rory 0]

The floor is yours -- please advise at will.

 

[attachment=0]porch.jpg[/attachment]

 

2 cameras, 1 looking out mounted either partially outside or outside, 1 looking in.

That bullet should go somewhere outside and get a couple domes instead.

[vmgtlexi 0]

Thanks Rory. Do you mean moving the bullet Samsung out towards the edge of the overhang so that it serves the "yard/driveway" area. And, then use a dome facing in to watch the door area?

 

This is tricky b/c I also want to be able to see the windows along the front porch wall. I guess with a wide angle dome, I could face it inward (ie, facing the wall area as opposed to facing out into the lawn/sun). That would presumably eliminate the problem of too much backlight, giving me good facial and the ability to see my windows.

 

I turn on the BLC and am testing today to see if it helps. As expected, it seems to help a bit but of course makes the distant outdoor area more whitewashed. Anyway, that "distant" area is not of real concern. As long as I can clearly see cars in driveway and faces on the porch during daylight bright hours, I'll be happy.

[rory 0]

BLC will help see faces as they walk into the area, also should see things like cars or other moving objects on the outside, otherwise whiteout when there is nothing there. depends on the camera though.

 

Maybe put a dome on the opposite side of this camera (looking towards where it is now), and yes the bullet on the actual outside of the building, or at the edge of the overhang.

[vmgtlexi 0]

So, yes, the BLC does help see faces and coloration of clothing, etc. on the porch.

 

However, for the life of me, I cannot get the camera to find a happy middle ground (ie, see faces reasonably well on the porch and see the driveway at all clearly).

 

I have tried every setting multiple times. The camera I replaced (a Nuvico) was far and away better in this location than this Samsung (that is, until the Nuvico died). This Samsung is DISAPPOINTING!

[vmgtlexi 0]

Even if I move this Samsung to the very outer edge of the porch looking out, it is still going to be blinded by the sunlight. This camera just SUCKS!