Need help with a home system after two break-ins

[brasskey 0]

I need some help designing a system. This is for my parents house that just got broken into for the second time in the past few months. I have a small screenshot below showing the house. It is in a cul-de-sac with an alley to the west and an alley to the north. I marked the picture up a little bit to better visualize the setup. Each red dash represents a house door. The front door to the house is on the east side. Blue dashes represent gates, yellow dashes represent garage doors, and white lines represent fence. The previous break-ins have happened from the alley to west where the criminals came up the driveway. The first time, they kicked in the side door to the garage and made their way inside (marked 1). The second time, they went through the southwest gate and broke through the southwest back patio door (marked 2).

 

The driveway has motion lights that cover pretty much all of the driveway. Occasionally they burn out and my parents don't always replace them promptly, so maybe that's something to mention for the camera selection. They generally do not leave any lights around the house on at night (occasionally the front door light), so the cameras will need to be good in the dark.

 

Any help with a setup would be appreciated. I just do not know much about cameras. I would feel comfortable setting everything up, but I just want to make sure I get the right cameras. I know a budget is probably needed as the cameras will just get more expensive as they get better. At this point, I'll say $2000. Below is what I'm thinking for a setup.

 

1. Camera on southwest corner of house that covers west part of driveway and also the alley.

2. Another camera on southwest corner pointing more east covering east part of driveway, garage doors and southeast gate.

2. Camera at side door to garage where first break-in took place

3. Camera at southwest back patio door where second break-in took place.

4. A couple of cameras to cover northwest back patio doors.

5. Camera at front door.

 

 

[bike_rider 0]

I think of cameras a 3rd on the list of things to add to improve security.

 

Monitored alarm system? If you don't have an alarm system the bad guy is free to roam around your house for hours, making sure the camera system goes into his bag.

 

Outside lights? Like it or not, outside lights are a deterrent AND most cameras are happier with some white light. Change the switch on the outside lights to an automatic timer and then you don't have to remember to turn them on. Landscape lighting can be helpful and now that LED lights are available in low voltage landscape lights, the reliability for DIY setups is much better.

 

The map is a good start. For non-megapixel cameras, you can either cover a wide area and see what is happening, or you can cover a choke point (like a gate) and see faces. The problem with faces is that unless it is your neighbors, that's often not valuable to the police. License plates are useful, but unless they drive into your drive way, it isn't going to be easy to get.

 

I think that your budget is too low for good cameras all around. Prioritize your locations. Front door is a must. Back of the garage is also important. If you cover the close gates and front door, then you just have to deal with people approaching the house from that far gate. That might be a good case for a megapixel camera so that you can cover a wide area and get a lot of detail.

 

Don't forget a few signs just in case they don't notice the cameras.

[nDAlk90 0]

This is a big house. Here is what I would recommend.

 

1. Install door and window contacts on every accessible window / door (first floor and basement windows are of highest priority)

2. Install glass break detectors and motion sensors for alarm in large rooms and hallways.

3. Install sirens at following locations:

 

- Front Door

- Back Door

- Garage Doors (With Strobe)

- Interior of house

 

4. Install exterior perimeter motion lights.

5. Install Security Cameras at following locations:

 

- Front Door at eye level (doorbell) and second camera right above door frame (for overview shot)

- Underneath Garage Door frames (for good facial identification)

- By all other doors and large windows.

- Cameras looking at driveway

- Cameras looking at gate entrances

- Camera inside garage

 

These are just what I would recommend doing. The alarm should be monitored and the security equipment should be kept in a locked closet also protected by a secure steel door.

[brasskey 0]

Monitored alarm system? If you don't have an alarm system the bad guy is free to roam around your house for hours, making sure the camera system goes into his bag.

Yes, they have an alarm system.

 

Outside lights? Like it or not, outside lights are a deterrent AND most cameras are happier with some white light. Change the switch on the outside lights to an automatic timer and then you don't have to remember to turn them on. Landscape lighting can be helpful and now that LED lights are available in low voltage landscape lights, the reliability for DIY setups is much better.

They do have outside lights (with the driveway on a timer) but none of the lights on the back porch are on a timer.

 

I think that your budget is too low for good cameras all around. Prioritize your locations. Front door is a must. Back of the garage is also important. If you cover the close gates and front door, then you just have to deal with people approaching the house from that far gate. That might be a good case for a megapixel camera so that you can cover a wide area and get a lot of detail.

 

Don't forget a few signs just in case they don't notice the cameras.

I just threw the price out there. I don't know anything about cameras so I'd just like to get some ideas going. As far at the front door, is truly a must since they break-in through the dark alley and not the front door off the lighted cul-de-sac? Thanks for all the ideas, any suggestions on cameras?

Edited September 28, 2011 by Guest

[brasskey 0]

This is a big house. Here is what I would recommend.

 

1. Install door and window contacts on every accessible window / door (first floor and basement windows are of highest priority)

2. Install glass break detectors and motion sensors for alarm in large rooms and hallways.

3. Install sirens at following locations:

 

- Front Door

- Back Door

- Garage Doors (With Strobe)

- Interior of house

 

4. Install exterior perimeter motion lights.

5. Install Security Cameras at following locations:

 

- Front Door at eye level (doorbell) and second camera right above door frame (for overview shot)

- Underneath Garage Door frames (for good facial identification)

- By all other doors and large windows.

- Cameras looking at driveway

- Cameras looking at gate entrances

- Camera inside garage

 

These are just what I would recommend doing. The alarm should be monitored and the security equipment should be kept in a locked closet also protected by a secure steel door.

 

 

Thank you for all the suggestions. They do have door/windows contacts and glass breaks at every location. This was a suspected quick smash and grab burglary (in and out in minutes). Would a fog deterrent system be something worth looking into?

 

Can you point me to some camera suggestions? If I need to go over the budget to get decent cameras, that's fine. I just want to get some plans together.

[shockwave199 0]

Two times robbed- they are a mark. Spend a fortune on equipment that may or may not deter and ID them, or buy a good guard dog for the house. One that barks ferociously to put the fear of god into them, and will also rip them to shreds if they do enter. Problem solved.

 

Dan

[ljarrald 0]

i setup my home system from scratch and i'm only 14 so it is not hard to do!

 

i have 2 cameras in our alley, one in the bike shed, one in the porch, one looking at the front gate, two looking at the road (incase anyone gets run over again, its a busy road and there have been a couple of incidents), one looking at the back gate, one looking at the back door and two monitoring the garden.

 

i also have two ptz's on the roof, one is so we can zoom in on the car when its parked, the other is to zoom in on the park next to us because kids always set fireworks off (this is probabky not legal but the police asked for footage, not for us to take it down)

i also have a pir and sounder in the shed, door contacts on all doors, glass smash sensors on all windows, pirs in all hallways, sounders at doors and main hallway and some vibration sensors inside some cameras (like the ones in the alley)

oh, and a sounder on the side of the shed.

if the shed gets broken into, the alarm goes off in the house and shed and alley, an auto texter (made by me) texts me and my dad that the shed alarms have activated, the cctv camera in the shed goes from recording at 0.5fps to 10fps.

the cable comes back to the house in a metal conduit pipe. if somehow it got cut, the videoloss/tamper alarm would sound all the sounders in the house, the shed would not have a hold off signal so the sounders in there would activate too! (and we get a text)

if someone throws a brick at a camera again during the day all the alarms go off and the camera that has been hit goes into alarm. if its hit during the night, only the alley sounder activates. (but we get a text)

 

its a pretty complex system and i am proud of it. most of the stuff in it is from ebay. most of the cameras, sounders, pirs, etc are all second hand! my cameras cost me between £20 and £45 each so second hand is what i'd reccomend!

 

i documented my whole system and put it on youtube but my account got terminated because someone flagged every single one of my vids. i have a new one but it needs time to grow. you can find it here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/flamesecureUK

[ljarrald 0]

i s'pose with systems like mine, if we are out and someone wants to break in, they just need to wear a mask. i mainly did it as a hobby system but if you really want to catch them, put discrete hidden cams in. you can get cameras that look like PIRs, if they don't know they are being watched, they are less likely to cover up!

[gaz1 0]

heres another suggestion that you may not think of

 

use surround sound speakers that you can fasten high up but on one speaker take out the speaker drill a hole the size of the camera been used and insert it into the hole

 

with black fronted speakers it looks like a tweeter speaker so most ignore it

 

the house is marked as an easy target the fact its been done twice is more like the robbers comming back for replaced items from the insurance claim

 

also anyone entering from the street will not cover up as it causes too much interest it may be worth considering some street path way cameras to catch the faces of the intruders

[Numb-nuts 1]

I agree, it sounds like the thieves returned for replaced items. This apparently is quite common as victims feel they are less likely to be targeted again.

 

A couple of nasty dogs would help. This may or may not be practical.

 

Of course I would get a proper survey from a local CCTV supplier. Make sure it's a no obligation survey or at least a low cost survey. Get a proposal. You may decide to buy equipment from that company and fit it yourself or maybe you will buy the full installed package.

 

Review the alarm system for weaknesses and make improvements where needed.

 

Best of luck, hope your parents are recovering from their ordeal.

[shockwave199 0]

I recommended earlier in this thread to get a good dog. I know that's not always feasible. But just the other day there was a report on our local news that in a certain upscale area there were multiple breakin targets getting hit, as well as just overall breakins in the area. It was determined that not ONE of the houses broken into had a dog. Neighbors to the right and left- dogs. Thieves avoid dogs. They are a difficult obsticle better skipped. If at all possible, especially considering it was multiple breakins, consider getting a dog. Very best of luck stopping the problem.

[Numb-nuts 1]

If your parents like animals I can highly recommend Giant Schnauzers as being very protective and affectionate by nature and relatively quick to train to voice commands.

I have kept Giant Schnauzers most of my life and if I were a burglar I would avoid these dogs as the sight of them is enough to make anyone think twice.

 

Their motto ? "we bite first and ask questions later".

 

The ideal age for security training is about 2 years with this breed, they are rather boisterous up to age 2 years but are very clever and easily trained to their handlers after that.

They are particularly gentle with children and the more frail, they seem to have an intuition.

 

[shockwave199 0]

What really gets me is the newbies that ask for help, they get suggestions, but they've long since disappeared. I don't know how many times I find myself simply not bothering to respond to newbies anymore. For my effort, I'd rather not talk to a wall.

[Soundy 1]

If your parents like animals I can highly recommend Giant Schnauzers as being very protective and affectionate by nature and relatively quick to train to voice commands.

I have kept Giant Schnauzers most of my life and if I were a burglar I would avoid these dogs as the sight of them is enough to make anyone think twice.

 

Their motto ? "we bite first and ask questions later".

And people are scared of pitbulls!

 

 

I met a guy at our dog park a while back that had two giant schnauzers... gorgeous animals!

 

These are my guys Not much of a threat, but they might smother you with kisses.

 

[Numb-nuts 1]

In terms of accurate intuition, I have never known a breed like the Giant Schnauzer.

 

I am not sure what it is about burglars and dogs, not sure if they don't like the idea

of being ripped limb from limb or that dogs draw attention to the scene of the crime or both?

 

Those little fellas are great, and ready for their dinner by the looks of it.

[Soundy 1]

Those little fellas are great, and ready for their dinner by the looks of it.

Those are their St. John Ambulance Therapy Dogs scarves - their uniforms! They're working dogs too

[shockwave199 0]

If your parents like animals I can highly recommend Giant Schnauzers as being very protective and affectionate by nature and relatively quick to train to voice commands.

I have kept Giant Schnauzers most of my life and if I were a burglar I would avoid these dogs as the sight of them is enough to make anyone think twice.

 

Their motto ? "we bite first and ask questions later".

And people are scared of pitbulls!

 

 

I met a guy at our dog park a while back that had two giant schnauzers... gorgeous animals!

 

These are my guys Not much of a threat, but they might smother you with kisses.

 

As long as they bark up a storm, that's probably enough. In home burglary, I have to believe that quiet is more preferred.

[Numb-nuts 1]

Sorry didn't mean to hijack your thread, once dog lovers get going though...

[brasskey 0]

Thanks for all the tips. Dogs are not an option as my parents don't want one. What I'd like initially is a good outdoor camera that would detect motion and move with the motion. Also, be able to tie this into to a PVR or video feed. Is there a setup I can do where they are notified when the motion on the camera has been detected (by calling, texting, or emailing) and they could then look on the TV to see if anyone is out there?

[brasskey 0]

What about the Axis 215 PTZ-E? Would that be a good outdoor camera?

 

http://www.axis.com/products/cam_215e/

[bike_rider 0]

Virtually any system today will send a notice on motion detection. Many (but not all) will include an image in the email. A few will sound a tone as an alert. I don't like PTZs for home use because while they are looking over here ->, something interesting could be happening over there --------------->. Autotracking is available on better PTZs.

 

 

I also don't like motion detection as the basis for sending alerts because there will be false positives. IR motion sensors are a better solution.

 

Axis is a very, very good company. They have demo cameras on their web site (Somewhere). Download the manual to see how specific features work. It probably has autotracking (I'm guessing here), but check the manual. That camera is standard definition, so not hi rez by today's standard. For similar money, I'd look at a couple of Acti ACM-123 or Vivotek 8832s. Not saying I'd get them, but that is where my research would start.

 

Output to a TV can be hard to easy, depending on the solution you pick.

 

A simple PC (or laptop) with HDMI out, running Blue Iris software would do what you ask.

[brasskey 0]

Virtually any system today will send a notice on motion detection. Many (but not all) will include an image in the email. A few will sound a tone as an alert. I don't like PTZs for home use because while they are looking over here ->, something interesting could be happening over there --------------->. Autotracking is available on better PTZs.

 

 

I also don't like motion detection as the basis for sending alerts because there will be false positives. IR motion sensors are a better solution.

 

Axis is a very, very good company. They have demo cameras on their web site (Somewhere). Download the manual to see how specific features work. It probably has autotracking (I'm guessing here), but check the manual. That camera is standard definition, so not hi rez by today's standard. For similar money, I'd look at a couple of Acti ACM-123 or Vivotek 8832s. Not saying I'd get them, but that is where my research would start.

 

Output to a TV can be hard to easy, depending on the solution you pick.

 

A simple PC (or laptop) with HDMI out, running Blue Iris software would do what you ask.

 

 

Thanks. I'll check out the axis manual on that camera and look at the other two you suggested.

[dvarapala 0]

What really gets me is the newbies that ask for help, they get suggestions, but they've long since disappeared. I don't know how many times I find myself simply not bothering to respond to newbies anymore. For my effort, I'd rather not talk to a wall.

 

I understand your concern, but remember there are new people coming on board all the time, and some of them actually do a search before asking questions , so you're not necessarily talking to a wall. I myself have learned a tremendous amount from old threads on this forum, and I'll occasionally make responses to older threads specifically to help future explorers find their way.

[bike_rider 0]

I definitely see shockwave's point. For the OP (and all future newbies), I decided to answer this thread because the OP provided a good over view of the situation (not a generic i-need-4-cameras thread) and had some idea of what was needed. Plus, he did not ask "what's the cheapest ...." - I never have an answer for that question. Not that I think money is no object, but I look for value rather than cheap. Frankly, few people have the budget for what they want (I certainly don't), but starting a discussion with "cheap" isn't interesting to me.

[brasskey 0]

Sorry for the late responses everyone. Don't want to make you all think I wasn't still interested. I should have posted something saying I would be out of pocket for a while. I really do appreciate the help.

 

bike_rider - I can't fine the Vivotek 8832. Is it a current model? I might be missing something but I can't find it on their site or a google search. Also, what about the Axis Q1755-E? It's HD quality.

 

http://www.axis.com/products/cam_q1755e/