1/2 Mile Run

[Bob La Londe 0]

1/2 Mile Run

I am looking at having to run several high res color cameras a little over a half mile. 3000' apx. Fiber would work I am sure, as would Trango wireless.

 

We all know how expensive Trango wireless is, and when I started looking at fiber translators I went WOW! not to mention the cost of the fiber.

 

From a purely cost perspective there are realtively reasonably priced powered balun type systems that claim to run as far as 6000' over twisted pair. Also, direct burial telco very is reasonably priced compared to fiber.

 

(6-8 cameras with spares for expansion and/or redundancy)

 

This needs to be very reliable.

 

Here are my questions.

 

Can I run 3000'+ foot with high res color with powered twisted pair baluns type systems? Reliably?

 

Is direct burial telco adequate for this application? Telco is twisted pair, but often the degree of twist is much less than cat 3. It may take severl inches per full twist.

 

Has any body specificaly installed an application like this?

 

What kind of results have you had?

[Doug 0]

I've used active NVT baluns over existing PBX telco cable between a golf clubhouse and a hotel, the distance was about 3/4 mile. The picture quality was very good, but they were only b/w cameras. If I recall the cable was cat 3 but if I was laying new cable I would use direct burial cat 5.

 

Doug

 

 

1/2 Mile Run

I am looking at having to run several high res color cameras a little over a half mile. 3000' apx. Fiber would work I am sure, as would Trango wireless.

 

We all know how expensive Trango wireless is, and when I started looking at fiber translators I went WOW! not to mention the cost of the fiber.

 

From a purely cost perspective there are realtively reasonably priced powered balun type systems that claim to run as far as 6000' over twisted pair. Also, direct burial telco very is reasonably priced compared to fiber.

 

(6-8 cameras with spares for expansion and/or redundancy)

 

This needs to be very reliable.

 

Here are my questions.

 

Can I run 3000'+ foot with high res color with powered twisted pair baluns type systems? Reliably?

 

Is direct burial telco adequate for this application? Telco is twisted pair, but often the degree of twist is much less than cat 3. It may take severl inches per full twist.

 

Has any body specificaly installed an application like this?

 

What kind of results have you had?

[rory 0]

was the cable twisted pair or just regular telco wire?

[MetzLyov 0]

1/2 mile should be no problem for running cat5e using active hubs and baluns. I'd keep away from NVT though - issues concerning their support on the products and many restrictions on their hardware. Rather, I will recommend American Fibertek equipment, which we have been using more than 10 years and works exceptionally...

 

Have not used any Telco equipment for similar application, but transfering video is not a problem. You will have excellent picture quality at the end of the run as at the begining of the run regardless the number of cameras that you transfer.. Of course, you will requre to use active hubs and active baluns to accomplish this, but then cost will justify the mean... unless if you go to fiber run and then the cost will shoot off the roof...

 

Levon

[Doug 0]

If I recall correctly it was cat 3 twisted pair cable

 

Doug

 

was the cable twisted pair or just regular telco wire?

[rory 0]

ok cause i was looking at a direct bury telco wire here, but its very old probably 10 years, anyway, its not twisted pair, so looks like we need to run new cable, its around 2000'. It was originally installed by the telco company. They have since discarded it and ran fiber.

[Bob La Londe 0]

Ok, I took a quick look at the American Fibertek website and all I see is fiber technology stuff., Nothing for twisted pair.

 

I have a couple reasons for preferring twisted pair technology, price and capability.

 

I know I can get twisted pair fairly reasonabley. Even for direct burial. I do not have the tools to terminate fiber. I also have a fair amount of experience with twisted pair installation having done i as a contractor and in the past as a phone company employee. I also have all the right tools, and know how to properly use underground splice kits etc for future applications.

 

In reading up on this several peole refference UTP. The U in UTP stands for unshielded. With any decent direct burial cable it will be shielded by its very nature. Usually there is a copper or in some cases an aluminum armor/shield between the outer jack and the pairs inside. Is this a problem?

 

Gophers are a problem in this area. I wouldn't even consider installing a non-gopher proof cable.

[rory 0]

Ok then, direct bury multi twisted pair cable ...

[Bob La Londe 0]

Just got off the phone with NVT. American Fiber Tek is closed already. NVT says I should have no problems with an overall shield such as direct burial telco cat 3 cable.

[CSG 0]

Did you check with your CCTV supplier like ADI to see what other wireless options are available. I don't have my ADI catalog with me now. They aren't that expensive,and you save all the labor of a cable installation.

[rory 0]

VideoComm - http://www.videocommtech.com/

 

Best to run cable if you can though. I still prefer NVT as i know their products. But i will look into Fibertech at a later date.

 

Rory

[cctv_down_under 0]

I am not sure how many Meters there are to a Mile, however with the Bosch XF camera you can run RG59 cable 1000MTR 1KM without loss, this is inbuilt into the camera, what you need to consider is the ability to read the impedance, and this is done via the camera so that all cams on the screen of your machine will have the same visual response.

 

Sorry to sound like a sales rep, (been trying not to do that as much) but this is a good feature.

[rory 0]

I am not sure how many Meters there are to a Mile, however with the Bosch XF camera you can run RG59 cable 1000MTR 1KM without loss, this is inbuilt into the camera, what you need to consider is the ability to read the impedance, and this is done via the camera so that all cams on the screen of your machine will have the same visual response.

 

Sorry to sound like a sales rep, (been trying not to do that as much) but this is a good feature.

 

HHHhhhhmmmmmmm

 

1000 meter = 3,280.839895 feet

 

So really its like got something like an NVT TX Built in ..

Extra $150 from NVT on any brand camera 1.5 miles .. 1.5 mile = 7,920 feet

[MetzLyov 0]

Actually, I will concur with our friend from Australia. I beleive 1,000 meters is roughly 3,000' or more... We have tested this camera with cat5e connection and with passive baluns over 2,500' (not quite 3,000') (no amplification of any sort) and the results were exceptional... with Bilinx, made our jobs even easier.... SensUp actuall does work fairly good...

 

Just make sure you have an excellent 1/2" lens, otherwise the results will not be as good...

 

Levon

[rory 0]

Dont see how it is possible, even with coax, at that distance without using an amplifier, not to get video "quality" loss, just isnt possible. Even NVT will admit there is video quality loss with passive at 3000', in fact, they admit it is similar loss as coax at any distance, and we all know coax looses quality as low as 100'..

[cctv_down_under 0]

the camera has it inbuilt into it, you can choose the cable you use and it will balance the signal, not sure if it is actually an amp or anything

[MetzLyov 0]

This is correct again and it works excellent... but I am surprised that our friend in Australia doesn't know how this happens?

 

Unlike most of the cameras out there, this series and most of the domes from Bosch (high end that is) come with a very special feature (mostly programmable via Blinx) to program the camera with its necessitiies, i.e. specially with type of cable that you may want to use, i.e. Coax, etc...

 

Well, this feature automatically corrects the impedance missmatch at both end of the cables, thus allowing to transfer the video without any loss. As you know, increase of any cable length increases resistance, thus increases overall impedance, therefore effects the picture quality over 1,000' for most cameras. However, in this case with this built in feature, it automatically "measures" such impedance and the compensates such losses by increasing or decreasing automatic gain control and matches the impedence levels at both ends...

 

Bosch does not like to say how they do it, but I know this works and we have used its features in quite of few large warehouse applications. We did not use any video amplifiers or any doublers, rather streight run to the domes and cameras.. IT WORKS!

 

Levon

[rory 0]

it has a n amp built in is all.

[MetzLyov 0]

Yes and no... It actually a impedence matching circuitry, rather amplificagtion.. I know that it does amplify the signal (all the cameras do), but in this case, they have a very unique circuitry that measure the impedence and compensates for it...

 

Levon

[rory 0]

ok .. equaliser?

 

only for coax right?

 

Ofcourse you can buy the GE and Extreme cameras with NVT modules built it, then just add your receiver end ..

[MetzLyov 0]

Kind of, sort of, but with this camera you do not need those extras.. Just comes with built in and IT WORKS!

 

Levon

[cctv_down_under 0]

The modules wont auto adjust your impedance. least I think not... as for on;ly for Coax, not really.. it has several different options of cabling type to choose from

[rory 0]

The Hubs do all the work, the modules are just passive, the NVT hubs have interference rejection, ground loop protection, transient protection, and the active hubs are amplified, with equaliser. Course they cost an arm and a leg, but do work, for twisted pair that is.

[cctv_down_under 0]

I think I would still rather, not have to have extras, just nice to have it there if needed

[rory 0]

Sure would, but Bosch Doesnt make the cameras I use