DVR- back from the dead?!

[shockwave199 0]

Weird thing, this q-see dvr of mine. We had a power outage the other night. I have the dvr on a ups, of course. The estimated time for the electric to come back on is 1 1/2 hours- long past the ups range. So like a good moron, I decide I'll power the ups down for some reason- I thought maybe I'd save the battery from running out. Who knows what I was thinking. Anyway, this dvr has a soft shut down feature, meaning it has on power switch on the back, but also a power button on the front. Ideally, you should push the front button first to power down, which puts it into a standby mode and then you shut down from the back. Well moron me steps in and turns off the dvr from the ups- a 'hard' shut down. Well the dvr just goes off. And I mean off man- nothing for two days. I figured I fried the thing. But not giving up, I keep trying it- nothing doing. I leave it on before I went to work tonight and wouldn't you know, I get home and the thing is back on! Yay! But what the hell?! Anyone ever heard of this before? I'll have to ask the manufacturer if there's a built in shut down timmer- like if someone makes off with the dvr and they think it's dead? Who knows. I'm happy it's back!

 

Q-see gets a bad rap mostly but this 408- it doesn't die....for good, anyway!

 

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Dan

[rory 0]

Sounds like a bad UPS.

What make and model?

And does it have AVR?

 

With stand alone DVRs in most cases one doesnt even need a UPS, unless they have a Generator and its just to keep it on until the Generator switches over - otherwise just get an AVR. I've had some of the best UPS that never power the devices back up, it happens. On the other hand, never had an AVR that didn't power the devices back up. By the way, I've seen both of them catch fire.

[ljarrald 0]

one thing i don't like is whn people use UPSs when they are not needed. for example...

my DVR takes 12V, 5A. i COULD have the plug go into a ups, then into the dvr psu, then go into the DVR. but, this is pointless!

it would be doing this: (wall)240v>(ups in)12v>(ups out)240v>(dvr psu in)240v>(dvr psu out)12v>dvr.

and in power outage it'd be: (ups battery)12v>(ups out)240v>(dvr psu in)240v>(dvr psu out)12v>dvr.

 

all that insufficiency is why the ups only lasts a couple of minutes. do what i do which is use a 12v battery backed up PSU. (mains)240v>(psu)12v>(dvr) 12v. depending on your battery capacity and how power hungry your dvr is, you could get more than 5 hours with the mains off!

 

of course, if your DVR uses a PC CPU then you need to give it 240v so a UPS is the only option (google 'UPS car battery upgrade')

[rory 0]

depending on your battery capacity and how power hungry your dvr is, you could get more than 5 hours with the mains off!

15 minutes if you're lucky on this side of the globe.

Using the average consumer UPS.

[tomcctv 190]

use a 12v battery backed up PSU. (mains)240v>(psu)12v>(dvr) 12v. depending on your battery capacity and how power hungry your dvr is, you could get more than 5 hours with the mains off!

 

 

 

then another 10 hrs for the discharged battery to charge up. but its all pointless if you have no camera power.

[ljarrald 0]

use a 12v battery backed up PSU. (mains)240v>(psu)12v>(dvr) 12v. depending on your battery capacity and how power hungry your dvr is, you could get more than 5 hours with the mains off!

 

 

 

then another 10 hrs for the discharged battery to charge up. but its all pointless if you have no camera power.

 

yeah but the dvr is powered whilst the battery is charging, if you have power cuts that regularly then you should look into a backup generator.

all my main cameras have battery backed up PSUs. the less important ones don't, all my alarm boxes have battery backed up PSUs, all my relay boxes have battery backup, pretty much everything is backed up and we only have mains outages like once every 5 years. the main reason for our backup is because we turn out C/U off monthly when doing rewiring or whatever. i still need to do a test of my system with the mains off and see how long each PSU lasts.

[ljarrald 0]

depending on your battery capacity and how power hungry your dvr is, you could get more than 5 hours with the mains off!

15 minutes if you're lucky on this side of the globe.

Using the average consumer UPS.

 

read again i meant with a battery backed up PSU (without a UPS)

[rory 0]

read again i meant with a battery backed up PSU (without a UPS)

So a battery per camera?

Sounds good but where are these batteries going (eg. enclosures?) and what are you charging them with?

Doesnt sound like something one really wants to do for a client.

[ljarrald 0]

read again i meant with a battery backed up PSU (without a UPS)

So a battery per camera?

Sounds good but where are these batteries going (eg. enclosures?) and what are you charging them with?

Doesnt sound like something one really wants to do for a client.

 

no, i have about one battery for 4 cameras. i could use about 2 batts for all 16 but then they would not last long (unless i used a huge AH one, like a car battery)

the batterys are standard SLAs (like in intruder alarm panels) they go in the power supply, its just a standard CCTV psu with space for a battery at the bottom.

i use a couple of access control PSUs for the cameras and i use the PSU from an old fire alarm panel for the DVR in the enclosure of the fire alarm (with a new front so it looks like a metal box, not a fire alarm.

 

[rory 0]

What do you use for a 24VAC power supply?

Eg. 24VAC cameras.

 

Also I havent seen many professional PSUs that have room for a battery.

[ljarrald 0]

What do you use for a 24VAC power supply?

Eg. 24VAC cameras.

you use a 24vAC PSU and it is hard to backup. all my cameras are dual voltage. 24VAC or 12VDC. i use the DC option but if you were to use AC you could have a setup where mains on is 24vAC but in powerloss it switches to 12VDC. that would be the most efficient way to do it if you wanted AC with mains power.

[rory 0]

Whats the point powering the cameras by 12VDC battery when the DVR is dead?

If you can power the DVR, then the cameras can be powered off the same power.

[ljarrald 0]

Whats the point powering the cameras by 12VDC battery when the DVR is dead?

If you can power the DVR, then the cameras can be powered off the same power.

 

not being rude but did you read by comment, or was it not clear?

my dvr takes 12v at 5 amps. it has its own psu with battery backup, as do the cameras. the reason they are not all on one PSU is because i used what i had. it also works better this way. if i had a 10 amp battery backed up PSU then it would probably only have space for two SLAs (less AH's)

[shockwave199 0]

I plugged the dvr into another outlet and it still wouldn't come back on. It wasn't the ups- other stuff plugged into it worked fine. It wasn't the dvr power supply because that worked when checking it too. If I get an answer as to why there is a delay to the dvr powering back up, I'll let you know. There is definitely a delay. There are some other electronics that have a delay to power up when they overheat. I can't remember what they are, but I've seen this before. Just not with a dvr. I'm just glad it's back.

 

As for a UPS, it has a surge protector as well, which I like. Probably not top of the line surge protection, but some is better than nothing. I'd like a power conditioner too. But beyond that, remember that the most useful benefit if UPS is not really to keep things up and running while the power is off. It's nice if it outlasts the power outage, yes. Great for the short term outages. But it's really to allow you to power down whatever is connected to it properly, so you don't lose critical work. Most often, computers are what you put on a ups for this very reason. Since a dvr is recording and storing info on a hard drive, I view it as a computer and feel it's absolutely necessary to have it on a UPS. It could be in the middle of writing to the hard drive when the power is cut and then you could lose the hard drive, which is what I was worried about as well. When we have a power outage, it allows me to turn the dvr off properly. Unless I'm an idiot like this time and do the very thing I shouldn't have. Luckily, the dvr was spared.

 

Dan

[ljarrald 0]

my DVR has no power buttons or switches at all

[rory 0]

It could be in the middle of writing to the hard drive when the power is cut and then you could lose the hard drive, which is what I was worried about as well. When we have a power outage, it allows me to turn the dvr off properly. Unless I'm an idiot like this time and do the very thing I shouldn't have. Luckily, the dvr was spared.

Nope, wont happen. It could damage a Windows file system or not properly close the data file thats open but thats it. Voltage Regulator is the ONLY thing that will physically protect your hard drive, UPS is only for battery backup unless it has AVR built in. I live in the land of loosing hard drives, Voltage Regulator is the saviour.

[shockwave199 0]

Well that's good. This dvr you power up and down with more than just plugging it in or pulling the plug. Better or worse? I don't know if it matters. Just the way it is.

 

Dan

[tomcctv 190]

Anyone ever heard of this before? I'll have to ask the manufacturer if there's a built in shut down timmer- like if someone makes off with the dvr and they think it's dead? Who knows.

 

 

 

i think q-see will tell you that you have a problem with your dvr.

 

if q-see says it is a feature then it is a stupid one that thay need to remove. just because of a power outtage the dvr stays off for a few days (good security)

[rory 0]

Ive been pulling the plug from my Windows PC for the past decade .. no issue.

Power outages several times a week with no UPS.

Major brownouts galore .. only time I lost a hard drive, was when I unplugged my PC from the Voltage Regulator and plugged it into a Surge Protector, literally happened within an hour, and we were lucky enough to get a brownout at the time.

With the DVRs I just pull the plug thats a given.

[shockwave199 0]

Nope, wont happen. It could damage a Windows file system or not properly close the data file thats open but thats it. Voltage Regulator is the ONLY thing that will physically protect your hard drive, UPS is only for battery backup unless it has AVR built in. I live in the land of loosing hard drives, Voltage Regulator is the saviour.

So this scenario- interrupting writing to a hard drive and creating a bad sector, wouldn't cause further problems to hard drive? Especially in this instance, where you write over the drive again and again? NEVER? Or you just haven't run into it yet?

[shockwave199 0]

Anyone ever heard of this before? I'll have to ask the manufacturer if there's a built in shut down timmer- like if someone makes off with the dvr and they think it's dead? Who knows.

 

 

 

i think q-see will tell you that you have a problem with your dvr.

 

if q-see says it is a feature then it is a stupid one that thay need to remove. just because of a power outtage the dvr stays off for a few days (good security)

I think so too. But it's what I bought and I'll tell you, I'm happy it's still alive. I want to upgrade my dvr for sure, but I don't have a budget to do so at the moment. This would have been warranty work too, but it's alive, so I roll on.

[rory 0]

So this scenario- interrupting writing to a hard drive and creating a bad sector, wouldn't cause further problems to hard drive? Especially in this instance, where you write over the drive again and again? NEVER? Or you just haven't run into it yet?

You interrupt writing to a hard drive when you stop writing to it.

Yes with the billions of power outages over the years while writing to a hard drive I have never run into it.

File corruption with some open software, certainly.

Loss of data with open files, ofcourse.

Physical damage? Zero.

 

Thats because I use a voltage regulator.

Have been doing so from 1996.

 

Everyone with hard drive problems I have come across, are ones without Voltage Regulators.

Although the PSU is the most common thing to go first.

Basically if someone has a hardware problem and they are not using AVR, then I am not surprised.

 

So like I said, its just been my experience.

[shockwave199 0]

Fair enough. I'll keep it on the ups for sure though, espeically given this behavior.

 

Dan