Please help a newbie start a system

[Famester 0]

Hi all, I am in sunny south Florida and recently I redid my home alarm system with an IP panel with AlarmNet and everything works great.

I used to install burglar alarms professionally about 25 years ago, so wiring is not difficult for me.

While I was doing the alarm system I decided to run Siamese wiring (coax and power) for 10 outdoor and 3 indoor cameras for the future.

Well, the future came sooner than I thought. I would like to start building a system and slowly adding cameras and components.

 

Now I decided that due to improved MP picture quality, I should have a video hybrid system, or if I work it $$$slowly, a full IP Video Surveillance system.

I want to begin with one or two mid/high end IP cameras, I am fairly convinced on the Vivotek FD8361 and/or the Vivotek IP 8362 (other camera recommendations are gladly accepted). That way I can cover the front entry and the main rear part of the house. I have motion activated flood lights all around the house but there are some dark areas on the sides that the floods do not reach.

Questions are:

Other than the IP cameras, (I also have a spare computer and two monitors that I am not currently using), what else would I need to record directly from the video cameras to the computer's 1TB hard drive via IP?

I am assuming the software will enable me to view the video feed through a browser on my computer? Or is there something else that I need?

I already have the Siamese Coax/power wires run to each camera box location, I think would either need a power supply or a Network Switch to run PoE power to the cameras.

I have ATT Uverse internet with a Uverse wireless router which I believe would recognize the cameras wireless signal directly. Then I should be able to connect through the camera's IP address? Or would I be better off running Cat5 from the cameras to a switch and then connecting the switch to the router?

 

I know a Hybrid NVR would help the system come together, but I am trying to avoid spending on that item right now.

Also, I would appreciate recommendations for a NVR, since I am looking at Vivotek cameras, I assume the Vivotek NVR 8301 (8 channel) would be a compatible starting point. For the NVR an Individual Video Loop Out would be needed since I want to isolate the front door outside camera with a separate monitor by the inside of the front door entrance.

I hope I correctly explained what I am trying to accomplish here, I do not want to spend on low end cameras now and more sooner than later have to upgrade again.

All suggestions and ideas are greatly appreciated. " title="Applause" /> " title="Applause" />

Thanks, Fred

[skane 0]

Run CAT5 to the cams, connect to PoE switch, connect switch to LAN behind router. If the spare PC meets requirements for NVR SW of your choice, use the spare PC and add necessary storage.

 

If you use a Vivotek 8xxx, you can also view live feed and do recording on-demand at client level (without connecting to "server").

 

If you are set on running hybrid, then someone else can advise

[Numb-nuts 1]

I am sorry to tell you, but Coax and DC power siamese cable is purely for analogue CCTV.

(There are hybrid IP cameras and servers but I am not up on those)

 

IP cameras work on Cat5 or Cat6 cables. with RJ45s at either end either into a server or direct into your router. I am not aware of the market in the USA so I won't advise you what is available and your options, but should you decide to rewire with Cat5 or 6 then you could use the siamese as a pull through. Cat5/6 is always the best option now because of the convergence of networking and video surveillance.

 

If you want to go analogue and use a DVR as video server you can connect to your network that way. There are also hybrid recording devices aswell as IP servers and NVR/servers.

[ak357 0]

While I was doing the alarm system I decided to run Siamese wiring (coax and power) for 10 outdoor and 3 indoor cameras for the future.

Well, the future came sooner than I thought. I would like to start building a system and slowly adding cameras and components.

 

I already have the Siamese Coax/power wires run to each camera box location, I think would either need a power supply or a Network Switch to run PoE power to the cameras.

 

I know a Hybrid NVR would help the system come together, but I am trying to avoid spending on that item right now.

All suggestions and ideas are greatly appreciated. " title="Applause" /> " title="Applause" />

Thanks, Fred

 

Lots of Ethernet over coax adapters available

just Google it

[Famester 0]

While I was doing the alarm system I decided to run Siamese wiring (coax and power) for 10 outdoor and 3 indoor cameras for the future.

Well, the future came sooner than I thought. I would like to start building a system and slowly adding cameras and components.

 

I already have the Siamese Coax/power wires run to each camera box location, I think would either need a power supply or a Network Switch to run PoE power to the cameras.

 

I know a Hybrid NVR would help the system come together, but I am trying to avoid spending on that item right now.

All suggestions and ideas are greatly appreciated. " title="Applause" /> " title="Applause" />

Thanks, Fred

 

Lots of Ethernet over coax adapters available

just Google it

While I was doing the alarm system I decided to run Siamese wiring (coax and power) for 10 outdoor and 3 indoor cameras for the future.

Well, the future came sooner than I thought. I would like to start building a system and slowly adding cameras and components.

 

I already have the Siamese Coax/power wires run to each camera box location, I think would either need a power supply or a Network Switch to run PoE power to the cameras.

 

I know a Hybrid NVR would help the system come together, but I am trying to avoid spending on that item right now.

All suggestions and ideas are greatly appreciated. " title="Applause" /> " title="Applause" />

Thanks, Fred

 

Lots of Ethernet over coax adapters available

just Google it

 

I do not mind running a couple Cat 5/6 cables for now, the weather has cooled off a bit, but thanks for the info.

I will Google it.

[Famester 0]

Run CAT5 to the cams, connect to PoE switch, connect switch to LAN behind router. If the spare PC meets requirements for NVR SW of your choice, use the spare PC and add necessary storage.

 

If you use a Vivotek 8xxx, you can also view live feed and do recording on-demand at client level (without connecting to "server").

 

If you are set on running hybrid, then someone else can advise

 

Sounds like I am "good to go" Thanks!

 

Vivotek says the cameras need 15 watts each from the PoE switch?

I am assuming that is 12 volts DC

[bike_rider 0]

Run CAT5 to the cams, connect to PoE switch, connect switch to LAN behind router. If the spare PC meets requirements for NVR SW of your choice, use the spare PC and add necessary storage.

 

If you use a Vivotek 8xxx, you can also view live feed and do recording on-demand at client level (without connecting to "server").

 

If you are set on running hybrid, then someone else can advise

 

Sounds like I am "good to go" Thanks!

 

Vivotek says the cameras need 15 watts each from the PoE switch?

I am assuming that is 12 volts DC

 

Actually POE is about 45 -55v at the source. If those cameras really do pull 15W, you will need to be a little selective on which POE switch you use. Some of them may have something like 4 POE ports, with a max of 40W across all 4 ports. You won't have a problem with the power in individual ports (15W is the spec standard I think), but you might have a problem with the total power across all ports. Just something to watch for.

[Famester 0]

Run CAT5 to the cams, connect to PoE switch, connect switch to LAN behind router. If the spare PC meets requirements for NVR SW of your choice, use the spare PC and add necessary storage.

 

If you use a Vivotek 8xxx, you can also view live feed and do recording on-demand at client level (without connecting to "server").

 

If you are set on running hybrid, then someone else can advise

 

Sounds like I am "good to go" Thanks!

 

Vivotek says the cameras need 15 watts each from the PoE switch?

I am assuming that is 12 volts DC

 

Actually POE is about 45 -55v at the source. If those cameras really do pull 15W, you will need to be a little selective on which POE switch you use. Some of them may have something like 4 POE ports, with a max of 40W across all 4 ports. You won't have a problem with the power in individual ports (15W is the spec standard I think), but you might have a problem with the total power across all ports. Just something to watch for.

 

I looked through a few and it looks like the best bang for the buck is Netgear ProSafe 16-Port 10/100 Switch with 8-Port PoE

But I am also considering the Cisco SF302-08P

 

For some dumb a55d reason I thought those cameras were wireless, except for the power.

I don't know why I had that stuck in my mind. I do have to run Cat5/6 to these cameras. The coax adapters are more expensive.

I had remembered some that had the wireless antenna to them (Honeywell), that is why I was confused.

I should have looked at the manuals on line first (I did now)!

[skane 0]

Vivotek spec for the cams you mentioned show these max. power draws

IP8362 - Max. 9.6 W

FD8361 - Max. 9.9 W

 

If you don't need features of a managed switch for the install, a Trendnet TPE-S44 or Netgear FS108P should be fine. As other poster stated, just be sure total power draw of the connected PoE devices doesn't exceed rated capacity of the switch; doesn't hurt to always leave some headroom as well.

[Famester 0]

Thanks for all the help. I am going to order the cameras and the switch today.

I have to ask, if anyone has a recommendation on a good NVR other than the Vivotek NR 8301, (which would seem the way to go, since it is compatible with the Vivotek cameras).

I think I should be able to get a decent quality and features NVR somewhere in the $1000 to $1500 range.

 

Also, any recommendations for a fisheye or wide angle Camera, IP and/or regular?

I saw the Geovision GV-IPCAM and the Vivotek FD 7141V but they are pricey, good stuff tho....

[mike_va 0]

For that kind of money you could buy an I7 and run milestone...I think ZT systems has an I7 around $700 draws about 100W. The ZT quad core I bought had a MSI motherboard. I bought a Dell XPS I7 for my main recording unit, it is amazing (on sale at Costco for $1000 with a widescreen monitor).

 

Milestone has a free version called Xprotect go, you can upgrade to Essential pretty inexpensively. If you're trying to keep it real low cost check out Blue Iris.

 

I run Xprotect for recording, 4 channels of Axis Camera Station (which won't work for you) and VitaminD which I still think is the best program for a house where you just want to know what is going on.

 

Vitamin D can be somewhat processor intensive, but I can run 16 cameras (4 of them 1.3M) and use around 25% processor. Truly a glorious machine. I just VNC into it or tunnel for remote access, there is no client. Xprotect you also have to go to the paid version to get a remote client. I will also say this: VitaminD and Blue Iris also have great email support!

 

I can run 8 channels of Milestone on the quad core and not take up that much. Some day I'm going to get all three programs going on the I7, I think it can do it (not on one hard disk though). Just get a real computer you'll be a lot happier with the responsiveness of the system. Depends how much you will use it also, because you'll pay an added ~$100/yr electricity. Kind of a rambling response but still working on that first cup of coffee.

[Flicks 0]

For that kind of money you could buy an I7 and run milestone...I think ZT systems has an I7 around $700 draws about 100W. The ZT quad core I bought had a MSI motherboard. I bought a Dell XPS I7 for my main recording unit, it is amazing (on sale at Costco for $1000 with a widescreen monitor).

 

Milestone has a free version called Xprotect go, you can upgrade to Essential pretty inexpensively. If you're trying to keep it real low cost check out Blue Iris.

 

I run Xprotect for recording, 4 channels of Axis Camera Station (which won't work for you) and VitaminD which I still think is the best program for a house where you just want to know what is going on.

 

Vitamin D can be somewhat processor intensive, but I can run 16 cameras (4 of them 1.3M) and use around 25% processor. Truly a glorious machine. I just VNC into it or tunnel for remote access, there is no client. Xprotect you also have to go to the paid version to get a remote client. I will also say this: VitaminD and Blue Iris also have great email support!

 

I can run 8 channels of Milestone on the quad core and not take up that much. Some day I'm going to get all three programs going on the I7, I think it can do it (not on one hard disk though). Just get a real computer you'll be a lot happier with the responsiveness of the system. Depends how much you will use it also, because you'll pay an added ~$100/yr electricity. Kind of a rambling response but still working on that first cup of coffee.

 

I am using 7 IP cameras, 5 of them are Geovision 1.3 MP (various ones) and 2 are Areconts. I currently use the Geovision (free) NVR on an I7 machine. I paid for 2 licenses to use the Areconts and the Geos are free to use with their NVR. My question to you is: Is there any other software I can try with this setup to compare with the Geo NVR? I am happy with the current one but wonder if there is something better? I would prefer one that doesn't cost a lot or better, a free one. I am reasonably good with computer hardware and am willing to learn so please recommend me your best.

 

Thanks and Cheers!

[Famester 0]

For that kind of money you could buy an I7 and run milestone...I think ZT systems has an I7 around $700 draws about 100W. The ZT quad core I bought had a MSI motherboard. I bought a Dell XPS I7 for my main recording unit, it is amazing (on sale at Costco for $1000 with a widescreen monitor).

 

Milestone has a free version called Xprotect go, you can upgrade to Essential pretty inexpensively. If you're trying to keep it real low cost check out Blue Iris.

 

I run Xprotect for recording, 4 channels of Axis Camera Station (which won't work for you) and VitaminD which I still think is the best program for a house where you just want to know what is going on.

 

Vitamin D can be somewhat processor intensive, but I can run 16 cameras (4 of them 1.3M) and use around 25% processor. Truly a glorious machine. I just VNC into it or tunnel for remote access, there is no client. Xprotect you also have to go to the paid version to get a remote client. I will also say this: VitaminD and Blue Iris also have great email support!

 

I can run 8 channels of Milestone on the quad core and not take up that much. Some day I'm going to get all three programs going on the I7, I think it can do it (not on one hard disk though). Just get a real computer you'll be a lot happier with the responsiveness of the system. Depends how much you will use it also, because you'll pay an added ~$100/yr electricity. Kind of a rambling response but still working on that first cup of coffee.

 

I have a Dell Workstation 490 running Win XP Pro, Intel Xeon CPU 5150 @ 2.66Ghz with 3.25 GB Ram

I was hoping that would be enough to start out running with a couple IP cams and later add a good NVR to use hybrid with IP and Analog cameras.

I need to see how well of an area I can cover (and afford) using the IP cameras first and then add a few more analog cameras (like CNB VBM24VF or similar) to fill in the hidden areas and save a few dollars.

 

This unit is a bit higher than what I wanted to spend, but I think it has all the good stuff you mentioned:

NVR-IP1632 Price: $2,099.99

PC-Based NVR Specifications

*This NVR works with VIVOTEK Cameras ONLY. Other brands not supported.

Storage: 500 GB HDD OS Drive & 2 TB HDD

Recommended Number of IP Cameras: 16-32 VivoTek Cameras

Internet: Multiple simultaneous logins supported.

Secondary Storage: DVD Burner

Video Card: DDR3 Dual Port Video Card

Recording Mode: Schedule / Sensor Triggered

Case Type: Tower Case

Operating System: Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit

Processor: Intel Core i7 CPU

RAM: 6 GB DDR3 1600MHz

Motherboard: Asus

Software Version: VIVOTEK Central Management ST7501

 

Or I also found this one:

AXIUM 16 CHANNEL AX-NVRe-16 NVR w/ 480fps RECORDING AT 1080i w/ 1TB HD

Our Price : $1,495.50

Surveillance Video Part Number # ax-nvre-16-1t

 

On the I7 computer, would I have to add a DVR card to hook up the analog cameras?

If so, which DVR card?

[tomcctv 190]

This unit is a bit higher than what I wanted to spend, but I think it has all the good stuff you mentioned:

NVR-IP1632 Price: $2,099.99

PC-Based NVR Specifications

 

 

 

thats alot of money just to be able to run 1 brand of IP. and with no option to buy a licence to use others. plus you cant run your analog cameras.

 

 

for a little less money go for a hybrid. http://surveillance.aver.com/product/embedded-hybrid-DVR-IWH3216-Touch

 

http://surveillance.aver.com/product/embedded-hybrid-DVR-EH6216H-Series

[Famester 0]

This unit is a bit higher than what I wanted to spend, but I think it has all the good stuff you mentioned:

NVR-IP1632 Price: $2,099.99

PC-Based NVR Specifications

 

 

 

thats alot of money just to be able to run 1 brand of IP. and with no option to buy a licence to use others. plus you cant run your analog cameras.

 

 

for a little less money go for a hybrid. http://surveillance.aver.com/product/embedded-hybrid-DVR-IWH3216-Touch

 

http://surveillance.aver.com/product/embedded-hybrid-DVR-EH6216H-Series

 

I had already gone to the AVER website and did not see those models listed, I am sure they change model numbers quite often.

http://www.averusa.com/surveillance/userfiles/image/files/HardwareComparisonChart.pdf

I will research those models you suggested and compare the features.

Thanks, I am just looking for the best bang for the buck, without going overboard.

[Flicks 0]

Fred,

If you have a spare computer with reasonable power (I5 or so) with a TB or so of HDD then research Geovision to get you started on a budget hybrid system. You would need a Geovision capture card to connect the analog cameras but the DVR/NVR is free for Geo IP cameras (up to 32 cams...I believe).

 

You really don't need POE switches (expensive) to connect IP cams since you have already run power wires, however you do need to run cat5/cat6 wires to the cameras. Each Geo camera comes with its own power supply but you can use a central power supply box to connect many cameras to one outlet. Additionally, you would need a good Gigabit router along with one or more gigabit switch (preferred and depends on number of IP cams). I bought cat5/cat6 wires and the central power supply boxes at very reasonable prices from monoprice.com....research it.

 

Finally, don't forget to look at back-up power for each power location. Geo IP cams come with SDHC slots to store recordings locally. However, if you want, you can look into a second remote computer for continuous back-up of recording for tertiary storage. This way you will be well prepared if the main computer "disappears" with the event

 

Good luck with your project.

 

Cheers.