Looking for info on IP camera system, pretty large.

[Razer_SE 0]

Hello first of all, and I'll try to make this quick. New to this forum and I will read more around here as I'm sure a lot of this could be answered if I read for a couple of weeks but I'm looking for a starting place to at least start looking.

 

We have existing analog camera systems are remote locations that are working now. These are remote locations with no people on site so reliability is a must. Several hundred cameras in use now. While I understand you should not go cheap, on the other hand cost is a big factor when you are looking at the number of cameras and systems we are looking at.

 

I'd love for cameras to be at $500 or less (way less unless they have a crazy warranty as we replace them too often currently!), we use bullet cams almost exclusively. Some dome cameras in some locations, but mostly bullet cams. Lit locations, but we do need night capability of course. Megapixel at the least if we are spending the money on an upgrade.

 

What software should I be evaluating? Exacqvision is something we have been shown as an example. Meeting with vendors already of some things but I want to be aware of what's out there before making a decision this size.

 

This is a new job for me so I'm new to all of this and learning as I go. It appears this will be a major part of my job now so if I'm supporting it I want to know all about it!

 

Thanks for any pointers, and sorry for what I'm sure is another noob post that you are all tired of seeing!

[Soundy 1]

You're not likely to find *good* megapixel cameras for $500, especially not if you factor in per-camera costs of software licensing and cabling - yes, don't forget, unless the existing cameras are already using Cat5e and baluns, you'll have to either re-wire them, or use some sort of ethernet-over-coax adapters (expect to pay anywhere from $100-$400 per camera for these).

 

You can easily get good analog cameras that work well with low light without requiring IR for that price... with hybrid DVRs, you'd be able to use the existing analog wiring and then add megapixel cameras along the way as required (or as budget permits).

 

Are you looking for a system that can also be centrally managed over the internet? Things like remote viewing/playback, remote system management, health monitoring, etc.? If reliability is important, you may want to consider at the very least something that supports health monitoring - systems that will alert you if a remote site goes offline, if a camera loses video, if a DVR's performance is suffering or if it's not maintaining a set amount of storage, etc.

[Razer_SE 0]

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it.

 

As far as the $500 number I'm talking about just the camera itself, I understand the costs of the cabling and software and such being extra. We have looked at several camera vendors, I'm talking today with someone about Mobotix today and will see what kind of cost to expect there but I expect about $1000 a camera there I think. If I could find something about half of that we'd be in a much better position to get a faster roll out.

 

We have been looking at a hybrid system also, but by the time we spend $200+ on IP adapters we are part of the way towards a new camera too you know? We may end up doing this anyway as some camera shots do not require megapixel resolution, but maybe I can get sub megapixel IP native cameras at reasonable costs for these shots? I don't yet know as I'm having to learn fast! I personally would like to avoid hybrid if possible but we might have to go that route.

 

From a software standpoint we are using a mix of two systems now, each site has a computer working as a DVR and we have remote access to them, remote viewing and playback is needed for sure. As far as outages and such we are aware of cameras going out and such pretty quickly after it happens already as we access each site pretty often.

 

From a cost standpoint we can pull our cable and do the install ourselves, we are just looking at the costs of the actual equipment and software/licenses to make it all work.

[Soundy 1]

Keep in mind, "hybrid" refers to a DVR that can record both analog and IP, so you wouldn't need "IP adapters" - you'd just drop the DVR in and connect your old cameras to it, then add IP cameras as needed.

 

Take a look at Vigil systems (www.3xlogic.com) - they're hybrids up to 32 channels, excellent remote client with great multi-site support, and a powerful central-management system.

[ssmith10pn 0]

if it were me:

 

 

#1 Avigilon. #2 Axis W/ Omnicast.

[Razesdark 0]

I personally wouldn't use Hybrid of DVR's due to the fact that if one of those breaks down you immidiatly miss 16 (depending on size DVR) cameras.

Using a seperate server for the software, iSCSI storage and encoders to digitilise the whole lot is allot more secure.

 

This is speaking from my own experiances.

[Soundy 1]

But then if your storage goes down, you lose all recording as well.

 

There aren't many ways to completely eliminate the single point of failure while still keeping things cost-effective.

[Razesdark 0]

But then if your storage goes down, you lose all recording as well.

 

There aren't many ways to completely eliminate the single point of failure while still keeping things cost-effective.

That depends how you build up your storage. Also, he indicated that live view is quite important.

 

We have a similar situation here. We have storage but it isn't as important as live view, cause if we loose that we can't operate the factory, which costs allot of money.

 

There are ways to make it quite redundant. Have 2 servers, which create a single virtual server which holds the VMS. If one fails the other can still run it.

Have several storage units which all run in RAID 5 (for example). Fit the encoders with a redundant power supply.

Then if for example one of your encoders dies, you loose a max of 4 cameras.

 

You can make it as silly/redudant as you want, if you have the cash

 

We have our Security Controll Room running here on 5 DVR's (NETrec's) and I'm dying to get rid of them.

The moment one dies on me I have to run out there, swap the DVR's, reprogram the whole thing and I loose all the stored data on it.

Not to mention I have to keep a DVR spare, or in this case 2 cause they tend to die allot, which is a costly thing to have on the plank.

 

I don't think that DVR's are all that bad tho, I just feel that once you start to have a large sized installation it's better to go more modular.

[Razer_SE 0]

I have seen Avigilon mentioned a lot one here and they are the only major one I think that we have not looked into at all yet. What is pricing on Avigilon? I understand that this might have to be PMed but I'm just looking ballpark for software right now. Recurring fees, ip license requirements for third party cams and such.

 

 

We would love to use something like Pivot3 or whatever to store all the recordings offsite, maybe just have 30 days stored locally and the rest uploaded to the central system overnight but bandwidth could quickly become an issue I'm aware.

 

We have currently around 40 locations with 12-23 cameras at each one all recording locally, and all analog. Something that could use our existing analog and be slowly upgraded to IP would be great from a cost standpoint. We want to be consistent across all of our locations as far as software goes, right now it is mixed between three systems and this makes it hard on the end user for sure. Our main use daily is just live remote views as needed in a browser by many people through the day. If break-ins occur then we will look at footage later to see exactly what happened but no real time emergency or response.

 

Regardless where we go I'm sure it will be fun!

 

 

What about Aver? Looks reasonable at first glance for the stand alone hybrid DVRs with the ability to upload the video offsite it appears.

[ak357 0]

I have seen Avigilon mentioned a lot one here and they are the only major one I think that we have not looked into at all yet. What is pricing on Avigilon? I understand that this might have to be PMed but I'm just looking ballpark for software right now. Recurring fees, ip license requirements for third party cams and such.

 

 

We would love to use something like Pivot3 or whatever to store all the recordings offsite, maybe just have 30 days stored locally and the rest uploaded to the central system overnight but bandwidth could quickly become an issue I'm aware.

 

We have currently around 40 locations with 12-23 cameras at each one all recording locally, and all analog. Something that could use our existing analog and be slowly upgraded to IP would be great from a cost standpoint. We want to be consistent across all of our locations as far as software goes, right now it is mixed between three systems and this makes it hard on the end user for sure. Our main use daily is just live remote views as needed in a browser by many people through the day. If break-ins occur then we will look at footage later to see exactly what happened but no real time emergency or response.

 

 

Avigilon have fail over idea between servers if u need it

cost few $$$ but cool idea

[Campbell 0]

In terms of bang for buck. The 2MP MD7560 is great value. I know I can get it for $300AU so presumably you could acquire similar pricing in your location.

 

And I can't read... software wise, it depends on how much in the way of analytics you're after. Certainly Exacq and Avigilon are good options.

[Razer_SE 0]

Thanks for all the information I've received so far, it really is appreciated. I think after all the reading on here I can better make camera decisions at least.

 

Now for the software, any experience with AverMedia. Looking at something like the SA6416 RACK looks like a cost effective hybrid system but I don't know the software side yet. This would let me use all the existing cameras and upgrade to IP with no costs for third party cameras and such it appears.

 

Again super, super easy access to live feeds from remote sites via a web browser link is needed, no downloads and logins and such at each link, just working video with a click is ideal.