The best non-BNC camera??

[DogCatcher 0]

Hi All,

 

When I and another newbie announced our choice in cameras the heralded response was, "that is a crap camera." OK, I accept that they may not be the finest in quality with twisted pair connectors.

 

So, is there a range of cameras that use the RJ-whatever 6-wire twisted pair connectors that are actually at the top of the quality heap?

 

I am not suggesting that they could rival BNC connected. The four Samsung cameras I have all vary in quality between each other. I'd like to replace the front door one with something a little better if that is possible.

 

1: Speaker : Black

2: Video out : White

3: Ground : Copper

4: Speaker+ : Yellow

5: Alarm/Audio : Red

6: Power : Green

[tomcctv 190]

is there a range of cameras that use the RJ-whatever 6-wire twisted pair connectors that are actually at the top of the quality heap?

 

 

with this type of connection the camera is old .... and was available in Kits. and would only work with that kit. so if you had a rj samsung system you could not use say the philips rj cameras each company had there way of rj connection some 12v some 7.5 so not compatable with each other.

 

the systems are another thing. lots of posts on here with samsung or bosh where the camera plugs into monitor via rj plugs monitor goes and system has gone. it is old stuff with limited spec / cable runs. / and camera choice

[Soundy 1]

is there a range of cameras that use the RJ-whatever 6-wire twisted pair connectors that are actually at the top of the quality heap?

 

 

with this type of connection the camera is old .... and was available in Kits. and would only work with that kit. so if you had a rj samsung system you could not use say the philips rj cameras each company had there way of rj connection some 12v some 7.5 so not compatable with each other.

 

Yep... same goes for the other hallmark of the cheap kit systems: the mini-DIN connectors... again, everyone uses a different pinout, so you can't mix'n'match camera brands.

 

There's really no quality loss by using those types of connectors over BNC; the cameras aren't junk BECAUSE they use RJ or miniDIN connectors... the use of those is merely an indicator of a camera that's built to the lowest common denominator, that falls down in a lot of other areas, and is designed to simply be "foolproof" to plug in and go.

 

In fact, I've used some Pelco cameras that have an RJ45 jack on the back... their associated wall mount comes with a short cable that plugs into that and then breaks out to standard power and BNC tails after passing through the mount. They do this, one assumes, because the connector is cleaner and more compact and thus allows a cleaner mount design.

 

But in this case, the assessment of a "junk" camera was not based on the type of connector used; that came mainly from the camera's price and lack of any discernable brand name, both of which are also good indicators.

 

As far as "quality non-BNC cameras"... since you have the pinouts, you could probably adapt just about any standard camera to plug into that machine, although you might want to consider powering it separately.

[DogCatcher 0]

You installer guys should not be so knee-jerk sensitive to DIY people. Not everyone can afford nor want a $2000+ security camera setup.

 

To belittle what we have just spent hard earned bucks on is churlish. OK, so it is not the Rolls Royce of systems but many many business have a lot worse and they can still catch crooks from those videos.

 

I don't have a million dollars invested here to protect, I just want to discourage any thief from breaking in and causing damage. My Insurance Deductible is $1000 by choice and that means I get to repair any damages and losses before that breaks even.

 

I seriously doubt that a "perfect" and "modern" set up will be any more of a deterrent than my Samsung system and even with perfect quality video as another poster pointed out, the vandals came back with faces covered.

 

I have seen this knee-jerk before on a Plumbing forum where the first response from any and all professionals is slightly hostile. I have run my own businesses for 35 years and competition is a GOOD thing. The DIYers probably screw up more than they get right an I would not be surprised if some of your work is from fixing DIY gone bad.

 

So, please lighten up with the "old" the "outdated" the "crap" It is what I wanted to spend and I have little intentions of spending much more. I may trial a better camera if I can ever get that original question answered with a brand name.

 

I appreciate the assistance you guys have provided so far, but lighten up with bad-mouthing as I am sure not everything you own is top of the line. Your security systems may be but I bet there are no Lambo or Ferrari in your garages.

[Soundy 1]

You installer guys should not be so knee-jerk sensitive to DIY people. Not everyone can afford nor want a $2000+ security camera setup.

This is true... but at the same time, we regularly see people (in real life as well as on forums) who think that they're going to buy these cheap package systems and then do things with the video like they see in the movies and TV... then when they can't, they come here wanting to know how to improve things, at which point we have to tell them, "Sorry, what you bought is junk and will never come to close to what the salesdroid told you."

 

THIS is the kind of expectation people get:

 

 

I seriously doubt that a "perfect" and "modern" set up will be any more of a deterrent than my Samsung system and even with perfect quality video as another poster pointed out, the vandals came back with faces covered.

Even a $50,000 system won't be any more of a DETERRENT than a bunch of dummy cameras... CCTV rarely PREVENTS crime, and none of the professionals here will claim that it does.

 

What it DOES hope to do, is catch the perpetrators and successfully prosecute them. Better quality components go a long way toward that. PROPER SYSTEM DESIGN AND INSTALLATION goes a lot farther. A properly-selected and position $50 camera will almost always give better results than a poorly-positioned $500 camera... unfortunately the type sold with package systems (such as those you have) are rarely "properly selected" - they typically have a fixed lens at a "middle ground" focal length that's neither wide enough to capture a large area, or tight enough to get significant details; they typically have very poor low-light capability and compensate for this by slapping in a bunch of two-cent IR LEDs, which end up either not illuminating anywhere near the distance promised, or are TOO bright and wash out anyone who gets close enough to be recognized; and in relation to that last point, they're usually grossly over-sold by the marketing sheets, their capabilities being exaggerated beyond belief.

 

That's the simple truth. If you want it sugar coated, I'm sure we can do that for you, but we wouldn't be doing you any favors. If the cameras are sufficient for your needs, great! If they aren't, well... hindsight will tell you to ask about what to buy and how to design the whole system, BEFORE you buy.

 

So, please lighten up with the "old" the "outdated" the "crap" It is what I wanted to spend and I have little intentions of spending much more. I may trial a better camera if I can ever get that original question answered with a brand name.

 

I thought Tom already answered your question: there are few cameras that use that type of connector, and far fewer, if any, that would actually be pinout-compatible with your system. So the short answer to "best non-BNC camera??" is, none.

 

The rest of it wasn't intended to bash anything, it was intended to explain the reason for this... if something is low-end, outdated, or just plain crap, well... call a spade a spade.

 

And all that aside, I gave you another answer as well: you have the pinouts for the system's RJ connectors... it should be a simple matter to build some kind of adapter to connect those jacks to BNCs to connect to better-quality, readily-available, industry-standard cameras.

[DogCatcher 0]

at which point we have to tell them, "Sorry, what you bought is junk and will never come to close to what the salesdroid told you."

 

But that's my point entirely, you can approach the situation a little more tactfully and in a more generous spirit. There is no need to belittle the person and their recent purchase. If I were commenting I would say something along the lines of...

 

Unfortunately the camera you have purchased is limited in quality and features. You have been misinformed by the sales person and what you are wanting to do is just not possible with that equipment. In my professional opinion as an installer with some 20 years experience, the bare minimum you would need to achieve the results you seek would be the CamWhiz 20ZXC-50

 

Sure "junk" encapsulates that statement, but my dear old Mother used to say, "if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything." Sprouting "junk" to neophytes in this arena is just a bully tactic and it irritates me as these type of forums are supposed to help people and not just show puerile and faux superior some inhabitants of the forum are.

[fa chris 0]

Sprouting "junk" to neophytes in this arena is just a bully tactic and it irritates me as these type of forums are supposed to help people and not just show puerile and faux superior some inhabitants of the forum are.

 

I'm sorry if someone has offended you.

 

You're talking to nuts & bolts guys in an emotionless environment, they are calling it like they see it, not being disrespectful. No point in using political maneuvering to sugarcoat something when we can get right down to the issues and limitations of certain equipment and start moving in the right direction by figuring out exactly what your expectations are and what it's going to take to meet those expectations.

 

The advantage to online forums is you'll get very straight very blunt answers because nobody here has any motivation to up sell you. None of us care about what you end up getting, where it's from, or what it costs, we're just trying to help you get what you want. You get to decide if it's financially viable or not for your own personal situation.

[Campbell 0]

I think you're being a touch oversensitive to be honest mate.

 

I read through the first 2 posts then saw your reply of "knee jerk sensitive" and I read through the first 2 posts again and got really confused as to how you could get upset over the responses.

 

I regularly tell my customers they've got crap. I'll tell you you've got crap. I'm not being superior to you or anything. I'm telling you that your equipment, no matter how loved it is, ... is crap. Ok fine you can't afford a 16MP camera. That's not really the point though. The point is, is that compared to stuff that's readily available on the market... what you have is crap. No one is being offensive. You ask, we tell.

 

Sorry mate you have junk on your hands is hardly "not nice" at least in my eyes anyways.

 

As for the rest, Soundy has pretty much covered everything.

[HTElectrical 0]

I think you're being a touch oversensitive to be honest mate.

 

I read through the first 2 posts then saw your reply of "knee jerk sensitive" and I read through the first 2 posts again and got really confused as to how you could get upset over the responses.

 

I regularly tell my customers they've got crap. I'll tell you you've got crap. I'm not being superior to you or anything. I'm telling you that your equipment, no matter how loved it is, ... is crap. Ok fine you can't afford a 16MP camera. That's not really the point though. The point is, is that compared to stuff that's readily available on the market... what you have is crap. No one is being offensive. You ask, we tell.

 

Sorry mate you have junk on your hands is hardly "not nice" at least in my eyes anyways.

 

As for the rest, Soundy has pretty much covered everything.

 

X2

[Bunited2 0]

I also didn't see any 'offensive' about the first responses.

 

These guy's don't get a dime out of trying to make

suggestions to you and it is/was true since you have the

pinout you could actually integrate a standard analog

camera into the system.

 

They made no reference to you or your capabilities, but

the system (may not have been crap even new) is/was

a common DIY for gas stations, liquor stores, etc.

 

I have actually found it humorous (somewhat) when I see

these guy's (calmly) explaining something to you and you

come back with this 'knee jerk' stuff....the only knee jerk

reaction I saw was from you.

 

Google 'midol and pamprin'

 

Have a nice day.

 

Bunited2