What camera is needed to see small details?

[Ira 0]

I have some LED displays I want to be able to monitor via IP camera. For example, one display tells me the percentage of LPG remaining in my tank. The displays are all just a few characters (no more than 10), and the smallest characters are about 1/2" tall. If possible, I would also like to be able to detect whether or not some "regular" LED's (small indicator LED's) are on/off.

 

All of the above are mounted on a sheet of plywood fastened horizontally on a wall. Everything I need to see is mounted on the top half of the plywood, so the area I need to see is about 8' horizontally by 2' vertically.

 

My preference would be to mount a camera on the opposite wall, about 25' away, but I don't know if anything in my price range ($750) can be mounted that far away and see the detail. If necessary, I could ceiling mount a camera closer to what needs to be monitored. I really don't want the extra cost of a zoom lense camera.

 

Lighting is currently provided by a total of eight 4' flourescent fixtures (two 40 watt bulbs per fixture), mounted on the ceiling. The area is about 25'x28' total. Walls are "open studs", unpainted, so there is little light reflection. Ceiling is open joists, also. If necessary, I would spend a little more to provide better lighting for the camera.

 

Any ideas on what type of camera (what megapixal resolution) would work? Would it work from 25' away?

 

Thanks,

Ira

[tomcctv 189]

the axis is in your budget. but seems alot of money just to watch indicators. so the little axis can earn its money while you dont need it watching indicators you can spin it around to do security work i.e watch doors or work area.

 

 

[NotoriousBRK 0]

To read characters that small you're going to want about 120 pixels per foot to minimize confusing things like a "6" with an "8", or a "3" with a "9" (I'm assuming these are standard 7-segment LED displays).

 

You've got an area 8 feet wide, so 8 x120 = 960, you want a camera with an image sensor that is at least 960 pixels wide.

 

A good quality 1.3 Mega pixel camera should work pretty well (they are usually 1280px wide), and there are some basic ones within your price range.

 

At 25 feet away, you'll want a 20mm lens, give or a take a little depending on exact distance, so I'd look for something with a varifocal lens that goes to at least 22mm (the exact lens is also dependent on the image sensor size...)

 

You should be able to find some 1/2" 1.3MP rated lenses in the 10-30mm range for $150-$200 street price.

[Ira 0]

I even amaze myself sometimes by how much I will spend to make up for laziness.

 

I like the idea of a megapixel PTZ camera in there, but I hadn't stumbled across any in my price range. I'm very new to this stuff.

 

The stuff I want to monitor is in my "shop" which is about 150' from my home. Some of the stuff affects various things in my home. Where possible, I have set up home automation devices so I can get email/voice notifications and/or actually do the monitoring from my home without cameras. There are still a couple of important ones that don't have any good way to tie into a home automation system.

 

So...I have a Panasonic BL-C210A that I bought for something else. It's not a megapixel camera. It has a 3x digital zoom (like the Axis M5014). With the camera sitting on a ladder about 10' from the "wall" I want to watch, I'm not able to see enough detail, with our without zooming in. Pardon the mess due to the "work in progress", but here is a snapshot taken by the BL-C210A (no zoom)...

 

 

Near the bottom right, just below the plywood, there is a grey display sitting on a white shelf. You can just make out the red LEDs. That device monitors my LPG tank level. About the middle of the wall, there is a grey fiberglass box with a clear acrylic cover that has six relays in it. The relays each have an LED that would be nice to see, but aren't visible with the BL-C210A. The similar, larger box on the far left also has relays with LEDs. It also has a water well pump monitor in it that has an LED readout. That LED readout is the one with 1/2" letters that I really want to be able to see with a camera.

 

So if the Axis M5014 can show enough detail, do you think it can do so from 25' away, or will it need to be mounted nearer on the ceiling?

 

Thanks,

Ira

[NotoriousBRK 0]

Digital zoom is useless.

 

You need to capture the detail optically. If you are not capturing the information, then no matter how much digital "zoom" you apply, you are just zooming in on more pixelated non-information.

 

You'd probably be better off relocating the LPG tank display to a location where you can put a camera within 8' or so of it. That would allow you to use one of the cheaper megapixel cameras with built-in lenses.

 

For monitoring the relays remotely, you might want to consider something like the http://www.controlbyweb.com/ units, where you could basically put a remote status display in the house. You might also be able to monitor them remotely the same way with some Linear wireless gear.

[Ira 0]

I agree that digital zoom is pretty much useless, and didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I mentioned it because the Axis PTZ suggested had a similar 3x digital zoom capability.

 

The purpose of all of the relays on the wall is to feed state info to a home automation system. Each one tells me something like my water softener is regenerating, my water well pump is running, my irrigation system master valve is open, my standby genset is running, etc., and all of this can be monitored from my home. All these things being monitored are out of sight/sound from my home. The open white can on the right side, and most of the devices around it, are connected to the home automation system and/or LAN.

 

However, relays do sometimes fail. If I get notification via a relay that my genset isn't doing its weekly exercise run, it's possible (but not very probable) that it actually did run but the relay (or the wire going to the relay) failed. Being able to see the LED indicator on the relay itself is just a little more info to figure out what is going on. But that's why I said it would be nice to be able to see the various LEDs everywhere, but not critical. The only two important items to see (for now) are the LPG tank monitor display and the water well pump monitor display.

 

It sounds like the Axis M5014 might not work unless I mount it on the ceiling within 10 feet or so of the wall, since the lens is a 3.8mm. Any MP cameras with pan and tilt in the same price range that have a lens that will do this from 25'? There have been times when I wished I had a PTZ camera in there, besides needing to read a 1/2" display.

 

Thanks,

Ira

[ak357 0]

I agree that digital zoom is pretty much useless, and didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I mentioned it because the Axis PTZ suggested had a similar 3x digital zoom capability.

 

The purpose of all of the relays on the wall is to feed state info to a home automation system. Each one tells me something like my water softener is regenerating, my water well pump is running, my irrigation system master valve is open, my standby genset is running, etc., and all of this can be monitored from my home. All these things being monitored are out of sight/sound from my home. The open white can on the right side, and most of the devices around it, are connected to the home automation system and/or LAN.

 

However, relays do sometimes fail. If I get notification via a relay that my genset isn't doing its weekly exercise run, it's possible (but not very probable) that it actually did run but the relay (or the wire going to the relay) failed. Being able to see the LED indicator on the relay itself is just a little more info to figure out what is going on. But that's why I said it would be nice to be able to see the various LEDs everywhere, but not critical. The only two important items to see (for now) are the LPG tank monitor display and the water well pump monitor display.

 

It sounds like the Axis M5014 might not work unless I mount it on the ceiling within 10 feet or so of the wall, since the lens is a 3.8mm. Any MP cameras with pan and tilt in the same price range that have a lens that will do this from 25'? There have been times when I wished I had a PTZ camera in there, besides needing to read a 1/2" display.

 

Thanks,

Ira

 

Avigilon box camera has 4-82 mm optical zoom

you will get any details u want easy

plus it has trigger in and out which can be part of your automation system

I am sure u can find usage

[bpzle 0]

Digital zoom is useless.

 

Not totally true... this depends on cam vs monitor resolution.

 

Otherwise, good recommendations.

[NotoriousBRK 0]

Digital zoom is useless.

 

Not totally true... this depends on cam vs monitor resolution.

 

Otherwise, good recommendations.

 

We're probably looking at it two different ways.

 

If your camera resolution exceeds your monitor resolution, then the image you see on the screen has to be down-sized in order to fit. When that happens you're throwing away some of the pixel data to make image fit. In that case it's helpful to have a way to select a sub-set of the camera's view to display on the monitor so that you have 1:1 pixel representation. IMO, you're not really "zooming" in when you do that, you are just no-longer throwing away data.

 

Digital zoom is *usually* represented as a way to somehow get more detail from an image. Either post-facto from recorded data, or from within the camera itself. Both scenarios are trying to display data beyond what was captured by the camera and/or recorded, and both tend to yield equally useless results.

[netcoolro 0]

hi,

 

For indoor cameras I use Geovision GV-FE110 1.3 Mega Pixel Fish Eye Camera V.1.

You can see a movie with the quality and specifications at http://www.bestcctvprices.co.uk/buy/geovision-gv-fe110-1-3-mega-pixel-fish-eye-camera-v-1-60608

 

I mean the real good think with this camera, is that you can see 4 different pictures in the same time. It is like you are using 4 cameras.

 

You can choose 1.3MP, 4MP or even 5MP.

For what you need I would recommend 1.3MP or 4MP.

 

For outdoor use you need to buy an enclosure.

[dvarapala 0]

If your camera resolution exceeds your monitor resolution, then the image you see on the screen has to be down-sized in order to fit. When that happens you're throwing away some of the pixel data to make image fit. In that case it's helpful to have a way to select a sub-set of the camera's view to display on the monitor so that you have 1:1 pixel representation. IMO, you're not really "zooming" in when you do that, you are just no-longer throwing away data.

 

Well, actually, you still are: any pixels outside the crop area are being thrown away. It is correct to say that when you crop the larger image from the camera down so that you have a 1:1 pixel ratio on your monitor, you are no longer throwing away any data from the area of interest. But that's a minor nit.