Tom12345 0 Posted December 7, 2011 do you think standalone ip encoders have superior image quality than a decent modern day analogue dvr??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom12345 0 Posted December 7, 2011 great...can't wait to try out ...new toys in the mail. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted December 7, 2011 great...can't wait to try out ...new toys in the mail. Which one did you decide to get ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom12345 0 Posted December 7, 2011 i did a budget job with some vivoteks, but the customer needs covert and low light...so i'm gonna do some analogues with an encoder. they got a cam in another off site location, so thats why im ip with a server at the main office....So i got a vivotek encoder.... on another note: here is some samsung cams from a recent job with samsung dvr. you think you can get better images from these cams with an encoder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted December 7, 2011 do you think standalone ip encoders have superior image quality than a decent modern day analogue dvr??? nope Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted December 7, 2011 Those images are not bad. So it will depend on the encoder you plan on using. What cameras are those images from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SportPlumber 0 Posted December 7, 2011 Those Samsung images are really good. Would you mind revealing the camera model numbers? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom12345 0 Posted December 7, 2011 the outdoor is sco-2080 indoor is scd-2080...the one on the counter is an ATV Tower cam..that cam is 1/4" sensor. it is a tiny bullet cam that fits in the tower....i think that recorder set at the highest level with the new firmware has good quality recorded images Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted December 7, 2011 you think you can get better images from these cams with an encoder. Weakest-link theory: your image quality is still limited by the NTSC video standard; an encoder can't magically turn a 480TVL camera into megapixel. The only way you get better images is if the encoder is using a "less harsh" compression than the DVR or card you're plugging into. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom12345 0 Posted December 7, 2011 you think you can get better images from these cams with an encoder. Weakest-link theory: your image quality is still limited by the NTSC video standard; an encoder can't magically turn a 480TVL camera into megapixel. The only way you get better images is if the encoder is using a "less harsh" compression than the DVR or card you're plugging into. yeah i'm thinking at least with encoders you can control bit rate....so mabye a higher bit rate could help...I'm happy with these images, but for jobs where i need low light I'd like to put in analogues with an encoder Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEANHAWG 1 Posted December 7, 2011 You can control the bit rate with DVR's as well. Encoders and DVR's use the same principle so no you wont really get better quality from encoders. It just all depends on the equipment being used. Just like DVR's, some encoders compress more than others. But if you are comparing a good encoder to a good DVR, then the difference is not noticeable. The only logical reason to use encoders is if you want existing analog cameras to be incorporated into your NVR software alongside IP cameras. But if you are using all analog cameras, it would be ludicrous to use encoders just for that purpose. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted December 7, 2011 You can control the bit rate with DVR's as well. Encoders and DVR's use the same principle so no you wont really get better quality from encoders. It just all depends on the equipment being used. Just like DVR's, some encoders compress more than others. But if you are comparing a good encoder to a good DVR, then the difference is not noticeable. The only logical reason to use encoders is if you want existing analog cameras to be incorporated into your NVR software alongside IP cameras. But if you are using all analog cameras, it would be ludicrous to use encoders just for that purpose. Disagree. Encoders give you more flexibly with system design and system expandability. Plus you get much better VMS software then most DVRs. I would use encoders any day over a DVR and I can do it cheaper then professional-hyprid DVRs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tom12345 0 Posted December 7, 2011 You can control the bit rate with DVR's as well. Encoders and DVR's use the same principle so no you wont really get better quality from encoders. It just all depends on the equipment being used. Just like DVR's, some encoders compress more than others. But if you are comparing a good encoder to a good DVR, then the difference is not noticeable. The only logical reason to use encoders is if you want existing analog cameras to be incorporated into your NVR software alongside IP cameras. But if you are using all analog cameras, it would be ludicrous to use encoders just for that purpose. Disagree. Encoders give you more flexibly with system design and system expandability. Plus you get much better VMS software then most DVRs. I would use encoders any day over a DVR and I can do it cheaper then professional-hyprid DVRs. yeah i have to agree....you need good low light but not alot of resolution get the encoder and run a few megapixels for the other areas... the only hitch i have recently is when you search recorded video on the VMS I have used you can't snyc the recorded videos of cameras to display. Is there a fix to that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEANHAWG 1 Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Disagree. Encoders give you more flexibly with system design and system expandability. Plus you get much better VMS software then most DVRs. Yeah if you are talking about hybrid systems and system design flexibility, I agree. But if we are talking about a guy just wanting a few analog cameras and no IP cameras, then it would be kind of tarded' to run them all on encoders with an NVR software. Not to mention it would be alot more expensive that way. Basically, all a DVR is is a glorified encoder anyways. Its not like an IP encoder will magically make the video of the analog camera better than a DVR would which was what the original question was asked. do you think standalone ip encoders have superior image quality than a decent modern day analogue dvr??? I would highly doubt that the images that you posted above will look any better on an IP encoder. Chances are, your DVR is using the same technology that an encoder uses to compress the video. Edited December 7, 2011 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted December 7, 2011 You can control the bit rate with DVR's as well. Encoders and DVR's use the same principle so no you wont really get better quality from encoders. It just all depends on the equipment being used. Just like DVR's, some encoders compress more than others. But if you are comparing a good encoder to a good DVR, then the difference is not noticeable. The only logical reason to use encoders is if you want existing analog cameras to be incorporated into your NVR software alongside IP cameras. But if you are using all analog cameras, it would be ludicrous to use encoders just for that purpose. I agree, and Encoders arent exactly cheap, then there is the NVR software cost etc etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted December 7, 2011 ^^ maybe you guys are not looking at the right software and encoders And again I am not talking about Costco type equipment. This is professional gear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEANHAWG 1 Posted December 7, 2011 Send me your best "Aschmigilon" encoder and if you want send me your best analog camera, and/or I will use my best camera and I will post snapshots of what the encoder puts out and what a Dahua DVR puts out. I guarantee they will be the same. Maybe even Dahua might be better, OH SNAP! I'll pay for return shipping of the encoder if you ship it to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted December 7, 2011 We pulled about 100 analog cameras off of GE DVMRE DVRs and put them on Avigilon Jpeg 2000 encoders and it was almost night and day difference in the image quality of live video. The analog would go into the DVR then out to the Matrix Switcher and then displayed in 42" monitors either as singe views or the matrix output of the DVR. I think the reason it looked so much better is because the computer did such a better job of resizing the images to fit the monitor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted December 8, 2011 We pulled about 100 analog cameras off of GE DVMRE DVRs and put them on Avigilon Jpeg 2000 encoders and it was almost night and day difference in the image quality of live video. The analog would go into the DVR then out to the Matrix Switcher and then displayed in 42" monitors either as singe views or the matrix output of the DVR. I think the reason it looked so much better is because the computer did such a better job of resizing the images to fit the monitor. The difference of quality between the GE DVMRE DVR and other DVRs is also night and day. The GE DVMRe were good back in the day and they were around when there were no others (worth mentioning) .. but now its a whole different industry .. their network video is only very pixelized CIF to begin with, and thats what is used for evidence sharing. To get any decent video we used VCRs on the output of the CRT monitor as we played back the video, yes VCR. Thats all the courts used back then also, actually that was not too long ago maybe 8-10 years, but now its all USB and laptops. Regarding live video, analog converted to VGA back then was also pretty awful (those DVRs were great with CCTV CRTs which is what they were made for, but who wants those now), and still can be if using cheap VGA converters. The difference in quality in your case was moreso dependent on the monitor used. This forum is full of posts from people complaining of bad quality with the conversion to VGA from older DVRs, its as common as ground loops. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted December 8, 2011 We pulled about 100 analog cameras off of GE DVMRE DVRs and put them on Avigilon Jpeg 2000 encoders and it was almost night and day difference in the image quality of live video. The analog would go into the DVR then out to the Matrix Switcher and then displayed in 42" monitors either as singe views or the matrix output of the DVR. I think the reason it looked so much better is because the computer did such a better job of resizing the images to fit the monitor. Oh BTW, Im not disagreeing with you, I am certain it does look 100% better in that case. Also I recall Windows ME on $14,000 42" Plasmas .. needed a special video card just for that and still it was only like 640x480 .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted December 8, 2011 Hey Rory it's funny you mentioned the VCRs and USB drives. One of the Hospitals I maintain is always struggling burning CDs or DVDs because the investigators are not that computer savy. I said why don't you just buy cheap USB drives or Flash media instead of burning. You would have thought I had just walked on water. LOL! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted December 8, 2011 Yep, a client here who owns nightclubs, he just buys cheap USB flash drives in bulk when he is in the US and then gives them away to the cops with the video evidence on it .. although these days the cops normally have their own USB drives but many times they are full. Haven't had to burn a DVD for evidence sharing in a long time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted December 8, 2011 I'll have to check into the US laws because they are funny about the chain of custody thing when it comes to prosecuting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
