Suitable PTZ system for Warehouse targeted during UK riots

[abska 0]

Hi

Our premises were targeted by rioters during the summer in Birmingham, we want to increase our security with some hefty cctv equipment but we are trying to save costs.

I found this system because I like the look of the PTZ camera as a good deterrent can anyone tell me if for the price that it is a good system.

Looking at it briefly it has 28 X optical zoom and 700 TVL for the normal bullet cams.

For the price it seems pretty reasonable as you get a controller also, other similar systems run well over £1000.

Thanks

 

http://www.tradexguru.com/cctv-security/full-cctv-systems/cctv-systems/pro-1000gb-1tb-4-channel-outdoor-armoured-cctv-camera-dvr-ip-set-internet-remote-protocol-viewing-271.html

[Soundy 1]

Looks like cheap junk. Considering a *quality* PTZ can easily run you £1000 on its own, that doesn't say much for the quality of this whole package for a mere £790.

 

If all you want is a VISUAL deterrent (ie. just for looks), then that PTZ looks plenty bad-ass... if you want something that's going to give you quality, usable video, you need to plan out your system piece-by-piece to suit the coverage you need, rather than trying to make a package system fit.

[abska 0]

Yes I know that PTZ cams itself can cost over £1000s.

We can only afford approx £800-£900 due to budget costs etc...

So if the specs were reasonable for the cost then we could consider it.

 

We only have a cheap CCTV system installed by the previous owners which currently does diddly squat! So anything is step up.

[Soundy 1]

Unfortunately, I doubt this system would be a substantial upgrade - the phrase "throwing good money after bad" might apply.

 

It may be preferable to simply upgrade your existing system a bit at a time - what does it consist of (specific make/model of DVR and cameras, if possible)?

[tomcctv 190]

Yes I know that PTZ cams itself can cost over £1000s.

We can only afford approx £800-£900 due to budget costs etc...

So if the specs were reasonable for the cost then we could consider it.

 

 

 

Hi 1 thing this forum is going to do for you is save you money. the system you have listed is junk NO POINT BUYING a system you cant use in a UK court.

 

 

just take another look at the site you have listed and price everything .................. the cheap junk dvr is ONLY £79 for an 8 way the whole system is worth about £200 at most

 

 

 

thats the second time you have posted that site in 3 months (there crap does not get better with age) and nothing will pass DPA regs if you are a store/shop.

 

 

for a budget of £900 you can buy a aver system of a dahua system (systems that work)

[Numb-nuts 1]

Don't make the mistake so many businesses make, trying to save money and ending up with a bum system which is ineffective. I can tell you now that system won't touch what you want from it. Frankly, you need to look at a system that is going to be both useful and taken seriously by those concerned. If the cameras look too much DIY, they tend not to be taken seriously and the reduction in risk can be lost. I was called to London after the riots to tidy up a couple of cameras that were atacked my miscreants. The ones I installed, professional cameras, were a bit messy with some gunk but they had not been compromised. The two businesses either side I noticed had their cameras attacked and none I could see had survived. They were all the static type you showed (not PTZ).

 

You might need a combination or visual deterrent and evidence gathering capability. The security industry has thousands of different products that solve various and unique problems and risks. You won't know until you have properly identified the areas of risk and your operational requirements. Don't worry, you won't be the first to consider CCTV back to front, it's very common, but very ineffective. As has rightly been said already, you need to identify and asses each camera location, it's operational requirement and buy a camera to suit those needs. Buying ready made solutions is a big COMPROMISE.

 

If indeed you need just four cameras you should be looking at an 8 channel DVR or you won't have any expansion capacity

and the cameras selected for their particular job. Unless you are willing to spend the entire business day watching the place with a PTZ camera, or employ a security guard. See, installing a PTZ has already cost you the salary of a security guard, what about £18,000 pa? Think how many static cameras and the quality you could have bought for £18000.

 

CCTV, that is real CCTV costs what it costs or just throw the money in the gutter.

 

Don't think CCTV is the answer to all your worries, it won't be. You need to look at an overall strategy which may well include CCTV as part of your plan.

 

Identify the risks, and decide how you might reduce the risks and gather evidence in the event of failure. Based on the fact that almost nothing is going to stop a determined crook, but there are steps you can take to reduce the risk of being victimized.

 

Hope this is a help and has not discouraged you, but given you some food for thought.

[Soundy 1]

Oh, and BTW... REALLY don't expect CCTV to be much of a deterrent to rioters - they're out of control and if they ARE paying attention to cameras, they're as likely mugging for them as hiding from them. Last summer's riots here in Vancouver are a prime example - tens of thousands of pictures of rioters and vandals from photographers, cel phones, and CCTV cameras... in many cases, people posing proudly for the cameras and posting the pictures on their Facebook pages. One major retailer had dozens of HD cameras in their store that gave them great shots of people trying for two hours to get in the door before finally smashing through and looting the place... the cameras were no deterrent but the video's been great for tracking the perps down later.

 

https://vancouver.ca/police/riot2011/ - official VPD site

http://www.vancouverriots.com/ - check some of the links for idiots bragging about their "adventures"

[rory 0]

Your better off paying some ex SAS to sit inside the store and just shoot any low life rioter that comes near it.

[chesterfield 0]

As someone currently reseraching/designing my own and first home cctv system, I do not have the knowledge that the installers and tradespeople here have, but I have learnt a few things over the last few weeks of reading this forum and a few pm discussions with people who are helping me.

 

My neighbour has a cctv system which incorporates a PTZ for his domestic system, however having seen it, while it does 720 TVL, its only any good if its pointing in the right direction at the time imho. I thought I could do with a ptz to cover a large front area of my property - but as above, unless I employ someone to sit and watch it, continually zooming the ptz into whatever action is on the screen, then its only ever going to be used as a toy to look around the garden while Im at home.

 

Looking at the multimegapixel cameras available, it is possible to mount one camera on the house monitoring almost the whole front garden (about half an acre), and the detail produced by that one camera will allow me to zoom into any area of interest AFTER the video has been recorded, I dont need to hope that my ptz is pointing in the right direction at the time.

 

If the budget is small then, much as its not a nice thing to say, whatever measures you can take to make your business looks a less attractive target than your neighbours the better. I'd rather the criminals just walk on to the next target and never need to rely on a cctv system than have a great system that will provide great evidence and be attacked once a month.

 

To monitor my house inside and out with a system capable of providing good evidence should I need it, Ive arrived at a budget of around £8k depending on the prices I can glean out of UK suppliers for the kit Im looking at.

[rory 0]

Looking at the multimegapixel cameras available, it is possible to mount one camera on the house monitoring almost the whole front garden (about half an acre), and the detail produced by that one camera will allow me to zoom into any area of interest AFTER the video has been recorded, I dont need to hope that my ptz is pointing in the right direction at the time.

 

Dont forget to add a ton of lighting also.

[danger_e 0]

And keep in mind that one camera still might not be enough. This will depend quite a lot on the width of the scene and the level of detail that you are expecting and the cameras that you buy.

 

Some camera manufacturers offer a camera/lens calculator with some basic guidelines on how many pixels per foot (PPF) are needed for certain levels of detail. Keep in mind that these are mostly pre-sales tools to get you in the door, but once you've settled on a camera that you want to buy, see if you can demo it to make sure that you will get the level of detail that you want.

 

Although, in my experience, there is nothing that compares to actually installing the camera where you want it to see what you can get out of it.

[Numb-nuts 1]

Your better off paying some ex SAS to sit inside the store and just shoot any low life rioter that comes near it.

 

Can't do that in the UK Rory. No right to bear arms here and even if you do posses a firearm, legally or otherwise you are not allowed to shoot a poor criminal thats trying to run away from you. They gaol you for that here.

(Note the British spelling of Jail)

[chesterfield 0]

Tony Martin got out eventually Numb-Nuts

 

I was hoping that this new government may have gone the whole hog and let you protect your own home without fear of persecution. I guess the liberals diluted that bit though. Though there have been a few people who stabbed burglars let off recently. There may be hope yet.

 

Back to topic though - here is one maybe the installers here can answer, what about buying second hand items? I know there wouldnt be a warranty to speak of, but what are the views on quality second hand kit/items without a warranty, vs a basic new system with a warranty?

[rory 0]

Your better off paying some ex SAS to sit inside the store and just shoot any low life rioter that comes near it.

 

Can't do that in the UK Rory. No right to bear arms here and even if you do posses a firearm, legally or otherwise you are not allowed to shoot a poor criminal thats trying to run away from you. They gaol you for that here.

(Note the British spelling of Jail)

 

LOL cant do that here either .. just saying ..

except here they say if you do shoot the criminal, make sure drag him back into your home so they dont charge you ..

[Numb-nuts 1]

Your better off paying some ex SAS to sit inside the store and just shoot any low life rioter that comes near it.

 

Can't do that in the UK Rory. No right to bear arms here and even if you do posses a firearm, legally or otherwise you are not allowed to shoot a poor criminal thats trying to run away from you. They gaol you for that here.

(Note the British spelling of Jail)

 

LOL cant do that here either .. just saying ..

except here they say if you do shoot the criminal, make sure drag him back into your home so they dont charge you ..

 

tsk tsk tsk Naughty BOY...

[abska 0]

Hi Guys

We got 2 indpendent Installers in to have a look, and I was a bit shocked by what they said and tried to charge me.

One quoted £5k inc all the fitting for equipment that looked it came from maplin (electronics store in the UK).

The other was slightly cheaper £4.7K.

 

Im sorry the figures these guys quoted are just unrealistic for what they proposed to install,

One ptz cam

7 bullet cams

A Dvr + controller

I checked their specs and they were not worth the money, I understand charging money to install it (a days work maybe) but their stock is worth £1k tops, if im being generous, 3K for a days labour? No chance.

 

We are going to go ahead and order this system, I spoke to the internet seller, he said if your not happy you can return for a refund just we pay for the shipping back (£15 max?)

I will give you guys a review and take some photos and video quaility, see what you guys think.

[tomcctv 190]

We are going to go ahead and order this system, I spoke to the internet seller, he said if your not happy you can return for a refund just we pay for the shipping back (£15 max?)

I will give you guys a review and take some photos and video quaility, see what you guys think.

 

 

 

 

 

but you are doing the same thing ...... spending £800 on a system only worth £2-300. the DVR is only £79...... you do know its only cif

[abska 0]

Do you know where I can get it for that price?

[Numb-nuts 1]

Hi Guys

We got 2 indpendent Installers in to have a look, and I was a bit shocked by what they said and tried to charge me.

One quoted £5k inc all the fitting for equipment that looked it came from maplin (electronics store in the UK).

The other was slightly cheaper £4.7K.

 

Im sorry the figures these guys quoted are just unrealistic for what they proposed to install,

One ptz cam

7 bullet cams

A Dvr + controller

I checked their specs and they were not worth the money, I understand charging money to install it (a days work maybe) but their stock is worth £1k tops, if im being generous, 3K for a days labour? No chance.

 

We are going to go ahead and order this system, I spoke to the internet seller, he said if your not happy you can return for a refund just we pay for the shipping back (£15 max?)

I will give you guys a review and take some photos and video quaility, see what you guys think.

 

If two independent installers were that close in their quotes, you can be sure that they aren't being

over the top in their pricing, however I would be interested to see their proposals and if they had overdone

it in terms of specifying a system. What number of cameras would there have been, how long recording on

the HDD a day, month, 3 months? What type of cameras and what sort of locations? Would they need a cherry-picker

and how long would the installation take?

 

These are all things that affect the final price. As for the DVR that you say looked like it was from Maplin, it may well

have looked poor but its the performance that really matters. I would say that in general good equipment looks the part too, but there are some very cheap LOOKING DVRs and Cameras that do their job more than adequately but look really nasty. £4750 doesn't sound too excessive but what would you have got for the money and did that include the first years maintenance and a day or more of training and what commissioning time did these guys allow for?

 

Too many factors to judge alone on price.

[Soundy 1]

As Numb-nuts noted, there are other factors to the installation than just time. Having done several warehouse installs, I can tell you, it's not as quick-and-easy as it may look initially, and that number of cameras would probably push things to two days for two installers. Assuming this is a typical steel-truss, concrete-slab-type warehouse... pulling wires through the roof trusses is more time-consuming that you might think, and punching holes through concrete and mounting cameras to it does take a good bit longer than with basic woodframe construction.

 

They're probably looking at renting *two* man lifts - I would expect a scissor lift for inside and a boom or bucket lift of some sort outside; I don't know about your area, but around here, we'd generally be looking at $200-$300 per day for a scissor lift, $500-$600 per day for a zoom-boom.

[rory 0]

might take a week .. and have to count in the time to quote the job, collect payment, ordering or stocking equipment, system setup, training, call backs to show you how to use it again and again etc. If you want them to ONLY install and save money ask them if there is anyway to drop the total down .. eg. if you can order your own parts etc, they may be willing to work with you especially in this economy.

[abska 0]

If anyone is still interested, we recieved the system this morning, and we can say we are impressed.

The PTZ camera is actually very powerfull with 28X optical zoom, we are wiring it up now in our warehouse.

The DVR is good actually has good recording and 1tb hd installed and 8 channels so we are thinking of getting more cams.

The bullet cams have excellent nightvision and are clear.

[Fiona 0]

Well don't say you weren't warned by the experts on this forum not to buy that system.

 

Honestly, why do people bother asking the Installers for their valuable opinions and then go right ahead and ignore them?

 

Frankly, I'd be surprised if that system achieves any long-term goals. And if it doesn't, then you're back to square one again.

 

The objective of this forum is not to penny-pinch every step of the way.

[rory 0]

If anyone is still interested, we recieved the system this morning, and we can say we are impressed.

The PTZ camera is actually very powerfull with 28X optical zoom, we are wiring it up now in our warehouse.

The DVR is good actually has good recording and 1tb hd installed and 8 channels so we are thinking of getting more cams.

The bullet cams have excellent nightvision and are clear.

 

good to hear. You got a decent system and saved a couple dollars.

Thats the way to do it in this current economy, unless someone is rich ofcourse

[Numb-nuts 1]

Hi Guys

We got 2 indpendent Installers in to have a look, and I was a bit shocked by what they said and tried to charge me.

One quoted £5k inc all the fitting for equipment that looked it came from maplin (electronics store in the UK).

The other was slightly cheaper £4.7K.

 

Im sorry the figures these guys quoted are just unrealistic for what they proposed to install,

One ptz cam

7 bullet cams

A Dvr + controller

I checked their specs and they were not worth the money, I understand charging money to install it (a days work maybe) but their stock is worth £1k tops, if im being generous, 3K for a days labour? No chance.

 

We are going to go ahead and order this system, I spoke to the internet seller, he said if your not happy you can return for a refund just we pay for the shipping back (£15 max?)

I will give you guys a review and take some photos and video quaility, see what you guys think.

 

You have some nerve!