IPCamera system on a POS station the way to go?

[Integraoligist 0]

Hello all, I'm opening a sandwich shop and want to add between 6-8 good high quality cameras to the POS system I will be making. Windows 7 32bit system (can not use 64bit with the POS software). The POS software itself takes up almost no resources for the PC so there should be zero issues with it running with the camera system is recording in the background.

 

Here are the questions that I have:

1. All the cameras will be inside and attached to a drop ceiling, so wiring will be very easy. Is an IP camera the way to go? I'd like to get Dome cameras that way people cant see which way the cameras are pointing.

 

2. If using an IP camera, other then connecting them each to a network switch via ethernet cable, is there a power cord for each of them or any other type of cabling to the PC itself? Or does everything go through the ethernet?

 

3. If everything goes through the network, do I need a DVR card like the GeoVision GV-600B or something else?

 

4. I see on a couple of the website that sell the hardware that the software for those cards are free, is that correct or are those just updates to the software that comes with the cards?

 

Thanks for all the noob help.

[Soundy 1]

Hello all, I'm opening a sandwich shop and want to add between 6-8 good high quality cameras to the POS system I will be making. Windows 7 32bit system (can not use 64bit with the POS software). The POS software itself takes up almost no resources for the PC so there should be zero issues with it running with the camera system is recording in the background.

 

Here are the questions that I have:

1. All the cameras will be inside and attached to a drop ceiling, so wiring will be very easy. Is an IP camera the way to go?

Well, it does give you the advantage of not needing separate capture hardware (ie. DVR card).

 

2. If using an IP camera, other then connecting them each to a network switch via ethernet cable, is there a power cord for each of them or any other type of cabling to the PC itself? Or does everything go through the ethernet?

Most IP cameras support Power-over-Ethernet, as well as external (12VDC and/or 24VAC) power. If you use a PoE-capable switch, you won't need any additional wiring to the cameras.

 

3. If everything goes through the network, do I need a DVR card like the GeoVision GV-600B or something else?

No. As above: that is an advantage of using IP cameras - you only need the appropriate software.

 

4. I see on a couple of the website that sell the hardware that the software for those cards are free, is that correct or are those just updates to the software that comes with the cards?

It depends on the particular hardware/software. Most that sell analog capture cards include the necessary software for free... however, most cheap cards include only very rudimentary software, and GeoVision cards (LEGITIMATE ones) aren't particularly cheap (and IMHO, the GV software isn't all that great either).

 

You'll pay a little more for IP cameras, but again, you then avoid the need of additional hardware... plus you then have the option to go megapixel. Many NVR software packages do charge a per-camera license fee, but many cameras come with their own software that will work license-free with their own cameras.

[tomcctv 190]

The POS software itself takes up almost no resources for the PC so there should be zero issues with it running with the camera system is recording in the background.

 

using your POS system as CCTV is not a good idea. (you back office unit)

[Integraoligist 0]

Soundy - I was looking on ebay at cameras like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wired-Serveillance-CCTV-IP-Camera-IR-Night-Vision-Dome-/290578553280?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a7d4d9c0#ht_3746wt_1095

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wired-Serveillance-CCTV-IP-Camera-IR-Night-Vision-Dome-/290578553280?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a7d4d9c0#ht_3746wt_1095

the only diffrence I see is that the top one is 1meg and it says "Client Software Not Supported Browser Viewing", which means that I need the software installed on my android and at home, i cant just lookup the ip? While the bottom one is .3meg and supports 4 online visitors at once. Thoughts?

 

tomcctv, why do you suggest that? Through the POS software the employees are not able to escape out of the POS to do anything to the recording software.

[tomcctv 190]

your PC at office is to run and collect register info .... dont know how many registers you have. just the same as you would not use your POS pc to play on internet.

 

 

running your registers and looking at putting in a geo card (which will in its self will use 90%of your cpu) will give you problems in your POS system as well as your CCTV.

 

 

keep them apart ........ its never a good idea to use your cctv system (pc) for anything else

[Integraoligist 0]

The issue is that there will only be 1 register, no office. So I wont have anywhere to setup another system unless it's right out in the open like the POS station. If I go with the IP cameras and no card, would that work better for system resources?

[tomcctv 190]

hi. can we just determin what POS system you have ..

 

 

1, i register running from a PC (pc being where you input your stock and costs)

2, a windows based or lynix based register

[Integraoligist 0]

The POS will be running from a Win7 32bit PC, using a Star USB printer, the printer prints the receipts and also sends the signal to open the cash drawer. The monitor will be an ELO touchscreen.

 

There are no bar code scanners, caller ID inputs, other PC's on the network.

 

It may or may not have integrated credit card processing in the POS (that will be determined by the rates the merchant services give me). If it does, it's a simple strip reader connected via USB.

 

The database for the POS will be very small, only a few items will be in the system. It's more like a Subway were there are only a select few choices for employees to choose from.

[Soundy 1]

^You posted the same link twice.

 

That item, however, is what we here typically call a "cheap junk" camera. It's basic VGA resolution, only a 6mm lens (not wide enough to cover a large area, not tight enough to get a lot of detail), and from the description, it doesn't sound like the included software actually records locally... and if it does, I doubt you'll be able to record 6+ cameras at once with it.

[Integraoligist 0]

oops, here is the other one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-Megapixel-720p-Digital-Network-CCTV-IP-Indoor-Dome-Camera-CCTV-Security-/150660675329?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D2%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D5398414469388668965#ht_6126wt_862

[tomcctv 190]

The POS will be running from a Win7 32bit PC, using a Star USB printer, the printer prints the receipts and also sends the signal to open the cash drawer. The monitor will be an ELO touchscreen.

 

 

 

so your just using a PC as a register

 

There are no bar code scanners, caller ID inputs, other PC's on the network.

 

 

then i would not class this as a POS system if it has no scanners. its just a till (manual input of price)

 

 

another problem geo softeare is not touch screen comp so you will need to log out of windows then open the geo via mouse.

 

if this is a store you need the cctv screen up all the time.

 

 

you can get dedicated software for what you need but adding your own geo card is using two softwares which is not a good idea

[Soundy 1]

That one looks like a much better option - it actually includes multi-channel recording software that supports a number of different models of cameras, so you do have options for later. It also has options for different lenses, which you may want to look at the locations you're thinking of installing and select different lenses for some locations. You might also check the other supported cameras and see if any of those have varifocal lenses, which would let you fine-tune the angle of view after installation.

[Integraoligist 0]

The POS will be running from a Win7 32bit PC, using a Star USB printer, the printer prints the receipts and also sends the signal to open the cash drawer. The monitor will be an ELO touchscreen.

 

 

 

so your just using a PC as a register

 

There are no bar code scanners, caller ID inputs, other PC's on the network.

 

 

then i would not class this as a POS system if it has no scanners. its just a till (manual input of price)

 

 

another problem geo softeare is not touch screen comp so you will need to log out of windows then open the geo via mouse.

 

if this is a store you need the cctv screen up all the time.

 

 

you can get dedicated software for what you need but adding your own geo card is using two softwares which is not a good idea

 

The CCTV screen will almost never be up on that station. I just need it to record the video. I will be wanting to view it from a different location, i.e. home, I'd like to be able to view the cameras live and replay past video from home.

[Soundy 1]

There are no bar code scanners, caller ID inputs, other PC's on the network.

 

 

then i would not class this as a POS system if it has no scanners. its just a till (manual input of price)

So the only difference between a "POS system" and a "till" is a barcode scanner?? That's just silly.

 

 

another problem geo softeare is not touch screen comp so you will need to log out of windows then open the geo via mouse.

He's been talking about IP cameras from the very start.

 

if this is a store you need the cctv screen up all the time.

That's more a matter of personal choice, isn't it? I know plenty of stores that run their DVRs headless, or have the monitor in some out-of-the-way place where it's not being watched constantly.

 

That does bring up a good point, though: you'll probably at least want to make sure you POS software can be minimized, rather than closed, to enable access to the NVR software. Most NVR software also doesn't support touchscreen control, so a mouse somewhere WILL be necessary (you might be able to get away with a wireless mouse that you can lock away during normal hours to prevent unauthorized access).

[Soundy 1]

The CCTV screen will almost never be up on that station. I just need it to record the video. I will be wanting to view it from a different location, i.e. home, I'd like to be able to view the cameras live and replay past video from home.

This is the one potential catch: your POS system would then need to be accessible from an internet connection, which MAY NOT be something you want to do, depending on what kind of data you keep on it. If there's any sort of customer or payment info stored on it, you may want to keep it standalone.

[Integraoligist 0]

The CCTV screen will almost never be up on that station. I just need it to record the video. I will be wanting to view it from a different location, i.e. home, I'd like to be able to view the cameras live and replay past video from home.

This is the one potential catch: your POS system would then need to be accessible from an internet connection, which MAY NOT be something you want to do, depending on what kind of data you keep on it. If there's any sort of customer or payment info stored on it, you may want to keep it standalone.

 

The system will always be connected to the internet, I use Logmein to access the PC when I am not at the location to "fix" any issues that arise. No customer information or credit card #'s are stored on the system... if credit card ARE run through the system, it is sent directly to the merchant account via the internet and stored on their secure servers, not ours. Last year the federal government made it illegal to store any credit card information on a workstation if the merchants software does not comply with the new processing standards for encryption.

 

I've had this POS software in 3 of my restaurants, I've programmed and built each system, the only new thing i'm getting into is the IP cameras and software.

 

If I use Logmein or PC Anywhere to remotely connect to this system, the employees see the same screen I do, so I need a software for the IP camera system that can run in the background while I can access the system without using a remote software like Logmein.

 

If I take the same software that is installed on the local system, and install it on the Home PC, can I connect to the network and access the Live and older video without any interruption on the local PC?

[Integraoligist 0]

also, having an additional mouse is not a problem, I always have one connected and under the counter for when I have to exit out of the POS software and do work in Windows.

[Soundy 1]

This is the one potential catch: your POS system would then need to be accessible from an internet connection, which MAY NOT be something you want to do, depending on what kind of data you keep on it. If there's any sort of customer or payment info stored on it, you may want to keep it standalone.

 

The system will always be connected to the internet, I use Logmein to access the PC when I am not at the location to "fix" any issues that arise. No customer information or credit card #'s are stored on the system... if credit card ARE run through the system, it is sent directly to the merchant account via the internet and stored on their secure servers, not ours. Last year the federal government made it illegal to store any credit card information on a workstation if the merchants software does not comply with the new processing standards for encryption.

Alright, so no problem there...

 

I've had this POS software in 3 of my restaurants, I've programmed and built each system, the only new thing i'm getting into is the IP cameras and software.

Good stuff. Just out of curiosity, what POS software is this?

 

If I use Logmein or PC Anywhere to remotely connect to this system, the employees see the same screen I do, so I need a software for the IP camera system that can run in the background while I can access the system without using a remote software like Logmein.

Well, I can't say specifically for the software included with that second camera, but I should think it's perfectly possible for it to run minimized - or more importantly, to START minimized, and run happily in the background.

 

If I take the same software that is installed on the local system, and install it on the Home PC, can I connect to the network and access the Live and older video without any interruption on the local PC?

That, I don't know, since all I have to go on is the screen shots and brief description on the eBay page... I would suspect not, though. The ad does say it includes a client application, which is probably a lighter version of the recording software (without much of the setup functions). I would think that it would support remote search and playback. That SHOULD be completely invisible to the POS users at the store.

[Integraoligist 0]

The POS software I use is:

http://www.pointofsuccess.com/

 

I've had 3 different pos software in my shops, first one was $13000 for a 3 station setup, the 2nd was $20000 for another 3 station setup... both always had issues and crap support. You could'nt do a damn thing with the software without the manufacturer stepping in and doing it for you because you dont have access to anything. They were both HUGE wastes of money.

Then I found this on some forums... have used it ever since. It's cheap because you basically have to program everything yourself, which is PERFECT for me. Never had any problems in the 3 years i've been running it.

 

Seeing as though I'm looking to get between 6-8 cameras, I'd like to stay around the $100 ea. range. Other then these cameras on ebay, where do you suggust going to buy online, and what particular one's? I'd like them all to be pretty wide angles so I can see everything going on... the wider the better as I'd probably only get 6 cameras if they cover the entire store. But whatever works better with a great image.

 

My old DVR system was a Clover 4-camera from Sams Club (no, i didnt know any better) And the resolution on that system just sucked. I could connect it to the network but could only access the DVR on a local PC, and even that software was horrible. Buttons in the software didnt work, super choppy. Just bad.

 

As I work from home the majority of time, this shop is about 20 miles away from me, I know internet speed will determine the choppyness of the images but I can deal with it, the highest I have (and is possible for me to get) is 12meg down speed (actually running at 10.3meg according to speedtest.net and speakeasy - if I download files from the internet the average speed is 1mbps).

[ssmith10pn 0]

I'd like to stay around the $100 ea. range.

 

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[Soundy 1]

Seeing as though I'm looking to get between 6-8 cameras, I'd like to stay around the $100 ea. range.

Well... I can't think of many standard analog cams at that price that I'd want to use... nevermind IP or megapixel. The eBay ones you linked to are probably as good a bet as anything. Frankly, I don't know how much I'd expect for the price they are, but they look fine on paper...

 

The cheapest MP cameras I've actually worked with were 1.2MP Acti domes, I think they ran around $300 each... the ones I use most commonly these days are 2MP HIKvision domes that go for around $850.

 

Other then these cameras on ebay, where do you suggust going to buy online, and what particular one's?

Aside from a couple of specialty items, I don't generally buy online, so I can't really suggest anything. You could try easterncctv.com, they've been good for me for those aforementioned specialty items.

 

I'd like them all to be pretty wide angles so I can see everything going on... the wider the better as I'd probably only get 6 cameras if they cover the entire store. But whatever works better with a great image.

The trick is to determine the view you need for each camera, and equip it appropriately. Two or three wide views for general floor coverage, maybe some tighter views for the paypoint(s) or front door... the cameras listed can be ordered with different lenses. Check this thread for some good examples and links: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24549

 

As I work from home the majority of time, this shop is about 20 miles away from me, I know internet speed will determine the choppyness of the images but I can deal with it, the highest I have (and is possible for me to get) is 12meg down speed (actually running at 10.3meg according to speedtest.net and speakeasy - if I download files from the internet the average speed is 1mbps).

Download speed doesn't mean much - UPLOAD speed from the store will be your main bottleneck.

[destro_23 0]

Being that i also own a small restaurant... i say get a small dedicated cctv system.. the POS video camera stuff that is built into mine (aldelo for restaurans) is basically only made for usb cameras that plug into the station. Reasonably priced POS software usually only does usb cameras only...

 

If you get a AverMedia NEH1008HN for 443.79... hard drive +100 + $500 for 6 cameras is about $1000 for a great system

 

or a NV5000 card that goes into PC for about $300 this can also do IP megapix cameras in future.

 

Again... double check with the software i could be wrong but i've only seen usb vga cameras being supported

 

just poked around and found this link http://www.pointofsuccess.com/videosecurity.htm

 

basically you need a regular dvr system... i would email them and ask for a picture of the back of that unit.

 

i haven't downloaded the demo.. but my educated guess it... it is NOT built into the system. if so its only for usb web cams.

[hardwired 0]

You could give Milestone NVR software a try, the "Go" version is free for up to 8 cameras and 5 days storage. Make sure and try to find IP cameras that are on the compatibility list (Milestone's has about the broadest compatibility list out there).

 

$100 per camera is pretty light for analog, let alone IP. I'd budget at least $250-300 for anything decent (Acti is about as low as I use).

[Peter_ 2]

Try bandh.com to search for cameras; they let you narrow it down by type, resolution, price etc. (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ns=p_PRICE_2|0&ci=16665&N=4266785728+4289360770+4289360750&srtclk=sort), then go find a better price elsewhere

 

I think that sticking with a single brand might be the best choice, use their provided software, and perhaps run it on a dedicated computer somewhere in your shop. Do you really NEED 6-8 cameras, or can you do better with 2-3 WELL placed and higher resolution models? Mobotix makes a 360 degree panorama camera that covers an entire room, and has onboard SD storage to avoid a computer all together. Or perhaps use a network storage device from QNAP or Synology to store the footage?

 

Like the others said, running too much on your main POS computer is probably not the best of ideas for the sake of the hardware and safety of your security footage in case of theft or robbery.

[Soundy 1]

B&H is missing a whole bunch of brands there...