IP System

[dolladave 0]

Let me start off by saying thank you guys so much for your wonderful wealth of knowledge and information. I have truly enjoyed reading and being a part of your site. Here's a little background. I'm a pretty technical guy and I've recently gotten into CCTV have set up and installed some Analog CCTV systems and DVR's over the last couple of months for friends. I'm pretty familiar with the camera types and DVR recording etc... Never used any PTZ yet, up to this point, all I have used is good RG59 siamese cable, solid copper core etc... I've made my own cat5e cables in the past for networking but never for CCTV or used Active/Passive baluns.

 

I am wanting to set up an IP system with a standalone NVR at my local residence because I would like to familiarize myself with the technology and how it works. It will never connect to the internet or be viewed remotely, only at home. Ideally, I would like to have a Hybrid System so that I still have the ability to hook up some Analog cameras for testing purposes and recording samples. I don't want to, and will not skimp on the NVR/DVR since that's the heart and your system will only record on something as good as what it's plugged into. EG, $1000.00 camera and $100 recorder = junk. I've browsed and looked at each of the vendor sites recommended by this forum.

 

The problem I'm having is I don't exactly know enough about how the IP system works. If you have 4 IP cameras, can you wire them directly to the NVR and it works just like the older traditional Analog CCTV with dedicated DVR I'm used to in the past? I haven't set a budget on this project, only numbers in my head but please provide me some advice on how the IP system works and any recommendations that you may have. I will be in the market to make some purchases in the next 3 weeks and if y'all carry the items, I would be more than interested in purchasing from site partners. I just don't want to end up with Chinese Junk.

 

Hybrid NVR/DVR- Minimum 4 channel Analog @ D1 10 FPS, and minimum 4 channel IP. +-$1000.00

 

2 -IP megapixel dome cams mounted in doorway. One for front door and one for back. No need for IR, as the doorways have good lighting. Don't know if IP cams are varifocal or not, but if they are, I would prefer that as opposed to a fixed lens. +- $600.00

 

2- IP megapixel bullet cams with IR LED's or IR illuminators for nighttime. Mounted roughly 8 feet off the ground. One for surveying front yard and one for the back yard. +-$600

 

thanks so much!

David

 

edit: It's probably also important to note, if someone just explains to me how it works in a brief manner, and point me towards a good brand NVR, I can do the further research myself and pick the components.

 

edit again: sorry, I'm learning more IP camera stuff as I go. As far as the unit used to record the video footage, I can easily build a performance PC if it's easier to run an IP camera through a desktop and just keep my analog cameras separate on their own DVR like I am currently running.

[Soundy 1]

The problem I'm having is I don't exactly know enough about how the IP system works. If you have 4 IP cameras, can you wire them directly to the NVR and it works just like the older traditional Analog CCTV with dedicated DVR I'm used to in the past?

Nope - you would plug the DVR and cameras all into a network switch - another term for "IP camera" is "network camera". You can optionally use a PoE (Power over Ethernet) switch to provide power to the cameras, rather than a separate power supply.

 

Hybrid NVR/DVR- Minimum 4 channel Analog @ D1 10 FPS, and minimum 4 channel IP. +-$1000.00

At least your starting budget is reasonable, which puts you well ahead of a lot of first-time posters

 

2 -IP megapixel dome cams mounted in doorway. One for front door and one for back. No need for IR, as the doorways have good lighting. Don't know if IP cams are varifocal or not, but if they are, I would prefer that as opposed to a fixed lens. +- $600.00

LOTS of options in that area as well. Megapixel cameras use similar form-factor sensors (1/4", 1/3", 1/2") to analog cameras, and thus use the same lens mounts (M12, M13, C/CS). You CAN actually use most of the same lenses, although typical analog lenses don't have sufficient resolving power to take full advantage of MP sensors, and you end up with images not as sharp as they could be.

 

Dome cameras typically include a suitable lens, though, so you shouldn't need to worry about all that... just look for something in the varifocal range you want.

 

edit: It's probably also important to note, if someone just explains to me how it works in a brief manner, and point me towards a good brand NVR, I can do the further research myself and pick the components.

There are LOTS of options out there - do you want to build your own, do you want a standalone machine, do you want a turnkey PC-based system? An NVR in its most basic form is just a recorder - a PC with the appropriate software will do, no additional hardware required. A hybrid could be considered to be a standard analog DVR, with NVR software added on... some DVR software supports recording network cameras internally as well.

[dolladave 0]

Thanks Soundy. I appreciate the advice. I'm fairly versed in computers and networking. Given your advice, I think the best route for me to pursue and would also be the most cost effective as well would be to just purchase the cameras I want and hook them to the switch. And from the switch to my local computer.

With that being said, let me made sure I understand correctly. Eg. 4 port switch/router and 4 cameras. Hook cameras to router and router to computer and use the software on PC to view the cameras, is that correct? That def. sounds easier than using a dedicated NVR. What software do you recommend?

[Soundy 1]

Well, you'd need a five-port switch - four ports for cameras, one for the NVR. Maybe another if you want to uplink to the rest of your network. Several manufacturers (D-Link, TrendNet, etc.) have eight-port switches, four of which are PoE.

 

And no, a standalone NVR is no more complicated - it, too, just connects to the cameras via the network. If it's just something you're experimenting with, you can run the NVR software on your regular desktop machine, but if it's to be an actual security system, you'd probably want a dedicated PC for it (or a standalone, although I'm a fan of PC-based, myself).

 

So just to be clear:

 

A DVR (whether standalone or PC) has capture hardware to digitize analog video from individual inputs.

An NVR receives video data streams over the network; the video is digitized within the camera.

A hybrid DVR has both capture hardware, and the ability to receive and record network streams.

[dolladave 0]

Soundy,

You have been a lot of help and it's much appreciated. I believe I have most of the information that I need in order to make an educated purchase. I have every intention of using a dedicated PC to run the software. Here are my final couple of questions, and I should be set.

 

How far can you run PoE without needing a dedicated power source for the camera.

 

A PTZ IP camera, does it require a separate controller like the older Analog cameras? Or is it controlled by the software.

 

Can your steer me in the direction of a software provider you would recommend or stay away from?

 

When purchasing software, is there any need for licenses since none of my cameras will be viewed on anything other than a local network that only runs the cameras.

 

thanks,

David

[Soundy 1]

How far can you run PoE without needing a dedicated power source for the camera.

Ethernet over UTP, without using extenders, is limited to ~100m (300').... PoE is easily capable of that, as it runs at around 44VDC, up to 15.4W per port.

 

If you need to go further, there are extenders than can take your signal and power past 1500m over UTP or coax... but if this is just around your residence, I doubt you would come anywhere close to 100m.

 

A PTZ IP camera, does it require a separate controller like the older Analog cameras? Or is it controlled by the software.

It would be software controlled... either through the camera's own web interface, or through the VMS. Some VMSes support the use of a standard USB joystick to control PTZ function as well. BTW, most DVRs can also control analog PTZs; a special separate controller is rarely required.

 

Can your steer me in the direction of a software provider you would recommend or stay away from?

The only one I'm REALLY familiar with is 3xLogic's Vigil, but they don't see the software separately, only complete turnkey systems. You CAN download the software from them, though, and run it as a 30-day demo (it's not officially made available, but it's not hard to find).

 

I've used VideoInsight in the past, it's pretty good, but the last few times I've needed support, it was dreadful.

 

I've played with Exacq demos as well, and it's pretty good. I haven't had to deal with Exacq support directly, but their local partner support has been outstanding.

 

When purchasing software, is there any need for licenses since none of my cameras will be viewed on anything other than a local network that only runs the cameras.

That all depends on the software. Most have a per-camera license fee. Some let you buy licenses in "blocks" (one, two, four, eight, etc.). Some have a "soft" licensing scheme (where you enter registration keys), a few (like GeoVision) license via USB dongle.

 

Some have special pricing depending on whether you use their own cameras - GeoVision, for example, doesn't charge for licenses for GV-branded cameras. 3xLogic charges about 1/3 the per-camera price for their own branded cameras vs. others.

 

In almost all cases, licensing has nothing to do with how or where you view it, but only with how many cameras the software will talk to. The Exacq demo, for example, will allow you to configure up to four cameras during the demo period, after which it will only let you configure one camera to view or record.

 

Many cameras do include their own free NVR software that will only work with that brand of cameras.

[rexp 0]

Hey there. I think I am a similar situation as you in that CCTV/security is not my job, but an interest that happens to have practical value for myself and others. I now have some experience under my belt, with setting things up. I wanted to share some tips and suggestions.

 

First off for the NVS hardware I went with a laptop, because I was concerned about the power operating cost and environmental impact of running a heavily spec'ed PC 24X7. One route to go is to search ebay for a used laptop with a smashed screen. Purchase cost is low, and power costs are low. As long it is modern machine with a Core Duo CPU or better and with a healthy amount of memory, it will likely meet the requirements for a 4 camera install. You can set up the VMS with an external monitor initially, and then after do all your access with Remote Desktop Client if you install the Pro version of XP or Win 7, or you can use the remote client install of whatever NVS you choose. Just a suggestion, but it has worked well for me.

 

My second piece of advice is to consider how you will do live monitoring as well as recording. Some of the NVS have clients that run on your phone, while others do not. If there is no app, you can use something like IP Cam Viewer to connect directly to the cameras. I get a tremendous piece of mind, if I hear an odd noise in the middle of night, by hitting three buttons on my iPad and seeing whats going on the street and at my doors. Also, when I travel, I port forward the cameras, so I can flip on my iPhone in the airport, hotel, wherever, and make sure that everything checks out at home. I even have a flood cam keeping an eye on my basement floor. I can't stress how important this functionality is to me at least. It is also, besides possible megapixel or greater resolution, one of the big advantages of an IP system.

 

This leads to my next piece of advice, consider the compatibility of the cameras you are intending to buy with the software you are considering using. All the NVS's have a supported camera list, some products are on all of them, some are on some of them, and the crap directly from China on ebay is on none of them IP Cam Viewer also has an extensive list of supported camera. I would cross reference before you buy, and avoid annoyance later.

 

My final piece of advice, which by your budget you already seem to realize, is that you get what you pay for. The no name products while cheap, often lack something: compatibility, features, support, something. The budget brands are better. The Vivotek cameras I bought, while relatively inexpensive have worked well. The premium brands are better still. (Loving my LevelOne FCS-5051).

 

Incidentally, I have been using the Milestone GO software as my VMS. It is really quite good, and worth a test. You may even want to spring for the paid version after using it, in order to get the unlimited recording duration, and watermark free export.

 

Cheers, Good Luck and Have Fun.

 

-Rich

[ssmith10pn 0]

It will never connect to the internet or be viewed remotely, only at home.

 

 

Never say never

 

 

Ideally, I would like to have a Hybrid System so that I still have the ability to hook up some Analog cameras for testing purposes and recording samples.

 

If it were me I would stick with an NVR and not go the Hybrid route.

 

If you still want to use analog cameras use a Encoder. An Encoder converts the analog camera to IP. Many different flavors of Encoders. Obviously it would have to be one that is compatible with the software you choose.

 

Examples of Encoders:

 

http://avigilon.com/products/cameras-video/encoders/

 

http://www.axis.com/products/video/video_server/

 

http://www.acti.com/product/category/Video_Encoder

[dolladave 0]

It will never connect to the internet or be viewed remotely, only at home.

 

 

Never say never

 

 

Ideally, I would like to have a Hybrid System so that I still have the ability to hook up some Analog cameras for testing purposes and recording samples.

 

If it were me I would stick with an NVR and not go the Hybrid route.

 

If you still want to use analog cameras use a Encoder. An Encoder converts the analog camera to IP. Many different flavors of Encoders. Obviously it would have to be one that is compatible with the software you choose.

 

Examples of Encoders:

 

http://avigilon.com/products/cameras-video/encoders/

 

http://www.axis.com/products/video/video_server/

 

http://www.acti.com/product/category/Video_Encoder

 

I appreciate the info guys. I got a little over board on my install I went with all vivotek this time around to get my feet wet and familiarize myself with the new IP world. Once I ever get around to getting it all up and running I'll post some photos. Posted below is what I ordered and just waiting for it to arrive now:

 

FD8361 3-9mm varifocal w/ IR LED

 

FD8362E 3-9mm varifocal. No IR but IR cut filter so can add IR illuminator later on if I want to.

 

IP8362 3-9mm varifocal WDR with IR LED

 

IP8352 3.9mm varifocal with IR LED

 

and a trendnet TPE-80WS switch.

 

With the DVR side of things ordered a Avermedia NEH1008HN

just to get the system started. I'll end up purchasing software and selling the DVR to a buddy but just wanted something to play with in the beginning.

 

Thanks for all the input guys!

 

Dave