Fiona 0 Posted January 9, 2012 The Pelco PP451 parapet mount uses a 4' pole which extends outwards and allows a Spectra to hang elegantly beneath it whereas the PP4348 uses a 4' vertical pole and a plate which accomodates various mounting arms like the IWM GY etc. Both units will carry a dome and allow for an inward swing of the camera to facilitate maintenance. The PP451 rotates on a substantial clamp at the base of the bracket; while the PP4348 pole rotates inside a 'sleeve' within the lowest part of the pole which is welded to the 18" x 18" lower bracket. Question: Are there any issues with either unit? The PP4348 'sleeve' appears to be a marginal engineering solution unless there is some way of clamping the upper section of pole inside the 'sleeve' that is not apparent from looking at the Pelco documents. The leverage caused by the weight of the camera which would be multiplied by the longer IWM GY arm in a 60mph wind would place a huge stress on that 'sleeve.' This is the Pelco manual for the PP4348 with a useful schematic diagram of the 'sleeve': http://www.schneider-electric.hu/html/epuletfelugyelet2011/PDF/09_pelco/9.6_Mounts/c204ma.pdf Here is the Pelco pamphlet for the PP350; PP351 and PP450; PP451 mounts: http://www.schneider-electric.hu/html/epuletfelugyelet2011/PDF/09_pelco/9.6_Mounts/c212.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dustmop 0 Posted January 10, 2012 I would go with the PP351 or PP451. The 451 reaches outward about a foot farther. I happen to have several of the 351 installed, and they are pretty easy to install, and the arm is VERY secure once you tighten the bracket down.. They didn't even move when a tornado went past very close by and destroyed a nearby building. The PP4348 'sleeve' appears to be a marginal engineering solution unless there is some way of clamping the upper section of pole inside the 'sleeve' that is not apparent from looking at the Pelco documents. The 4348 is held in place by two 1/4-20 bolts in the sleeve the top part slides in to. In theory, this should hold stable as well, and I wouldn't expect this to move at all. If you happen to have a bunch of IWM laying around (like I do), the 4348 might be a better bet. Especially if it's a long run where a 240/120v to 24v transformer is needed. Then you could use the IWM24-GY to have a nice weather-tight transformer. In my case, I use separate weather-tight external 120v to 24v power supplies wired up right below the 351/451 and some liquid-tight flexible metal conduit between them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiona 0 Posted January 10, 2012 Thanks Dustmop for the details about the ‘sleeve’ fittings on the PP4348. It looks like a good general purpose parapet mount with greater flexibility than the 451. The PP4348 can also take an Esprit, unlike the 351/451 which are purpose built for the Spectras (plus DF5s and DF8s). I will go ahead with the PP451 because, as you point out, it has a greater reach. This would allow it to reach out and over the top of the building thus maximizing the downward view of the PTZ. The hurricane capability is welcome news too. I said earlier that 60mph winds are normal, but I think it has maxed out at around 80mph with golf ball sized hail stones. Recent weather smashed some vehicle windows and actually dented car bodies when a mini-tornado struck. And the last thing I would want to see is the Spectra crashing to the ground or dangling from its cables.. I have one IWM GY lying around. I ordered the IWM24-GY, but, of course, the IWM-GY arrived without the inbuilt transformer. I really didn’t need the 24, other than out of curiosity and perhaps having some redundancy in case the 24VAC power supply fails. (Probably better to buy a spare MCS Power Supply.) The distances are not too great, so I will simply run some 16AWG Carol up to the camera. Thanks again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hardwired 0 Posted January 10, 2012 One thing to keep in mind, the PP351/451 does not have any type of fitting or sealing at the bottom where the cable leads out. If you don't use something to seal it (I've used canned spray foam), bugs and moisture can make it all the way up the pipe and into a Spectra dome (ask me how I know!). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dustmop 0 Posted January 10, 2012 I have sealtite rubber-coated flexible metal conduit that goes straight into the bottom with a compression fitting. For the life of me I can't find what part it actually is, and it's entirely too cold for me to want to go take a picture of it. Perhaps I will a little later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiona 0 Posted January 10, 2012 hardwired wrote: One thing to keep in mind, the PP351/451 does not have any type of fitting or sealing at the bottom where the cable leads out. If you don't use something to seal it (I've used canned spray foam), bugs and moisture can make it all the way up the pipe and into a Spectra dome (ask me how I know!). The last generic dome I installed (which is a good copy of a Spectra II) has a tiny gap for cable entry. A big spider got past that and onto the inside of the lower dome. I had to go up a ladder, take off the plexiglass dome and flick the blighter out. The 1.5" NPT threaded pipe on the top of the Back Box leads directly to a fairly insubstanial rubber 'cable guide' just above the PCB board. Certainly no deterent for bugs and spiders to enter. dustmop wrote: I have sealtite rubber-coated flexible metal conduit that goes straight into the bottom with a compression fitting. For the life of me I can't find what part it actually is, and it's entirely too cold for me to want to go take a picture of it. Perhaps I will a little later. I have never seen "Sealtite rubber-coated flexible metal conduit" which sounds like a better solution than plain ol' galvanised metal flexible conduit. (Or even stainless) So the lowest point of the 4' pole will have to be sealed with expandable spray foam or a compression fitting which also looks like a good solution - like a large cable gland. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiona 0 Posted January 17, 2012 Below is a photo of a newly acquired PP451 Base Bracket: this is an all aluminium, powder coated unit that weighs 22 pounds (10 kgs). Stainless steel bolts are employed to secure the clamp to the vertical section of the base plate. The two centre tensioning bolts thread straight into the tapped aluminium plate. Pelco’s attention to detail is perfunctory. It appears that two outer welds are completely absent on the bottom plate at a point of the greatest stress; and the cutting of that section is quite rough. Pelco ought to take a look at Hoffman Enclosures to learn a little about meticulous metal fabrication. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dustmop 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Trust me when I say that you will have no issues regarding the strength of the mount. Those seemingly "small" welds are in fact quite strong. The amount of stress that a camera will put on this mount, even in EXTREME weather conditions, isn't that great. Last winter there was an ice storm here that caused about 35 pounds of ice build up on one of the cameras on this same mount, and about 20 pounds of ice on another. I only know that because I had to loosen them, swing them back to me, and break the ice off so it didn't fall 5 stories and hit someone below. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiona 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Thankyou for your advice and comments on this thread Dustmop. Telling me about your experience with these mounts is really greatly appreciated. Please know that my criticism is levelled at Pelco. It seems to be consistent with any company that dominates a market. Because Pelco has no direct competition on many of its fixtures, it can get away with ordinary workmanship. Between you and me, the PP451 looks like an excellent solution and I can't wait to install it. Thanks again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
