CCTV Project

[jdowning 0]

Hi all,

 

I asked a few questions a while back but I was told conflicting information

 

Here's my wiring diagram at the minute. Note - the cameras will be 12V DC cameras (possibly http://www.buythis.co.uk/open_product.asp?pid=5615&catid=65&offset=0&Orderby=cheap).

 

Wiring diagram:

 

 

Anyway - have a few questions.

 

1) What type of balun will there be at the camera end to receive power & video?

2) What equipment will I need in both garages to be able to receive 4x video feeds?

3) What equipment will I need to send these feeds back to the DVR?

4) What equipment will I need at the DVR to receive these feeds so I can plug them into the back of the DVR.

5) If I have a PTZ control on one of these, I'm aware I'll probably need another pair. If I had another pair going from a camera to the garage, how could I further pass this on?

 

Thanks so much. The reason there is cameras going to two different places is that it's a large building and it's quite a pain for it to go all the way back to one positions.

 

Thanks alot

 

Jack

[Soundy 1]

Wiring diagram: http://www.gliffy.com/publish/3212437/

 

Anyway - have a few questions.

 

1) What type of balun will there be at the camera end to receive power & video?

Any type of balun will do - you don't NEED one with power pass-through. You can use regular screw-terminal or toolless baluns and just split out the ends of the Cat5e yourself - wire one pair to the balun, two other pairs to the power connector, and leave one pair as spare (I normally use blue for video, green and orange for power, and brown for a spare - no particular reason).

 

OR you can use the type with an RJ-45 connector on one end, and BNC and power leads on the other end.

 

It really is up to you as a matter of personal preference.

 

2) What equipment will I need in both garages to be able to receive 4x video feeds?

A four-channel balun, or four single baluns. Again, personal preference.

 

3) What equipment will I need to send these feeds back to the DVR?

No special equipment needed here.

 

4) What equipment will I need at the DVR to receive these feeds so I can plug them into the back of the DVR.

Two four-channel baluns, one eight-channel balun, or eight single baluns. Again, personal preference.

 

5) If I have a PTZ control on one of these, I'm aware I'll probably need another pair. If I had another pair going from a camera to the garage, how could I further pass this on?

You could use one pair in the camera's Cat5 run (such as the brown spare in my example) to get the control signal to the camera. To get it back to the DVR however, you'll need another pair available between buildings. Personally, I'd just pull two Cat5 between each building, to have the extra capacity.

 

I do recall going over this before... the advice given really wasn't "conflicting", it was just different methods to achieve the same end.

 

Look, this is the easiest way to do it with a minimum of needing to splice wires:

 

Use something like this at each camera:

 

- it uses one pair for video, three for power.

 

Then use something like this centralized in the garage - four baluns *and power* in one unit:

 

 

Plug each camera run into one of the jacks, 1 thru 4.

 

Then plug your run going back to the DVR into the "4 in 1" jack.

 

Repeat all this for the second garage.

 

At the DVR, take your two runs from the two garages, and plug them into this:

 

 

Then run 8 short coax cables from that to the DVR.

 

If you want PTZ control, run another wire (be it 18/2, station-Z, Cat5, whatever) direct from the DVR to the camera.

 

THIS IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT, so any different advice is not necessarily "conflicting"... it's just different. However, this is a nice, clean, painless way to do it.

[tomcctv 190]

 

 

Hi. your 4 cameras at both garage 1 and 2 dont need to be wired in cat5. all you need is rg59 with power and run the cables to a point in your garage were you can attach the power (cctv power in each garage)and attach the BNC ends to a 4 way balun . then you just run cat5 back to DVR building where you will have two 4 way baluns from each garage.

[ljarrald 0]

do you have mains power in each garage?

if you do it would be easy to havve a 4CH 12VDC psu in each garage and then just use each cat5 cable for video only.

[jdowning 0]

Hi there Soundy, thanks for your really informative reply. The reason I said conflicting information is as someone I know said I didn't need a balun in the garage, just a terminal block.

 

I'd like to stick to CAT5 Tom as I want to be -future proofed- for IP CCTV.

 

Also - I do have mains power in each of the garages but I thought itd be simpler if I just ran CAT5. Is this ok as all the runs have been done. What power equipment do I need in the garages for the cameras etc and where do these plug into.

 

Cheers everyone!

[Soundy 1]

Hi there Soundy, thanks for your really informative reply. The reason I said conflicting information is as someone I know said I didn't need a balun in the garage, just a terminal block.

You can do that too. I remember explaining this in the other thread - you just have to connect the video pair for each camera to a different pair on the between-building run. You can use crimps, terminal block, BIX block... even solder them and wrap them in black tape, if you want, whatever works to make the connection.

 

My main reason for suggesting the unit I did is that it is ALSO the power supply, so you don't have to worry about extending separate wires from the Cat5 to a power can or wall warts - just terminate each cable with an RJ-45, and plug it in.

 

Also - I do have mains power in each of the garages but I thought itd be simpler if I just ran CAT5. Is this ok as all the runs have been done. What power equipment do I need in the garages for the cameras etc and where do these plug into.

Use the units I suggested. Or a four-channel power supply. Or a separate "wall-wart" power supply for each camera. Again, it's all a matter or personal preference.

[ljarrald 0]

if you have 4 cameras going through 1 cat5 you have no spare cores for power so it would be a LOT cheaper to power each camera locally

[tomcctv 190]

I'd like to stick to CAT5 Tom as I want to be -future proofed- for IP CCTV.

 

 

ok rg59 with cat5 for power makes it ready for both analog and ip.

 

Also - I do have mains power in each of the garages but I thought itd be simpler if I just ran CAT5.

 

 

then for the lenths of runs you posted in june you will have power problems over that distance you might want to start at looking at 24v cameras.

[jdowning 0]

Hi there Soundy, thanks for your really informative reply. The reason I said conflicting information is as someone I know said I didn't need a balun in the garage, just a terminal block.

You can do that too. I remember explaining this in the other thread - you just have to connect the video pair for each camera to a different pair on the between-building run. You can use crimps, terminal block, BIX block... even solder them and wrap them in black tape, if you want, whatever works to make the connection.

 

My main reason for suggesting the unit I did is that it is ALSO the power supply, so you don't have to worry about extending separate wires from the Cat5 to a power can or wall warts - just terminate each cable with an RJ-45, and plug it in.

 

Also - I do have mains power in each of the garages but I thought itd be simpler if I just ran CAT5. Is this ok as all the runs have been done. What power equipment do I need in the garages for the cameras etc and where do these plug into.

Use the units I suggested. Or a four-channel power supply. Or a separate "wall-wart" power supply for each camera. Again, it's all a matter or personal preference.

 

Hi Soundy. Thanks so much for your help. I understand now. So just to rectify...

 

If I have a PTZ camera and it's powered locally, I can use one pair for video and that goes via CAT5 to garage. I can use anothe pair for control, bring it back to same garage via CAT5. For the control pair, I can have a seprate CAT5 going back to DVR and terminal block the control for the CCTV pair to the pair going back to office. I then plug this in at RS485 at office?

 

@ljarrald - sorry for not explaining properly. I meant video and power down one CAT5. Also - will the remaining pairs be able to provide 12V?

[ljarrald 0]

@ljarrald - sorry for not explaining properly. I meant video and power down one CAT5. Also - will the remaining pairs be able to provide 12V?

 

if you have 4 cameras down one cat5 there will be no remaining pairs!

cat5 has 4 pairs (8 cores) and each camera takes one pair (2 cores) for video.

[Soundy 1]

@ljarrald - sorry for not explaining properly. I meant video and power down one CAT5. Also - will the remaining pairs be able to provide 12V?

 

if you have 4 cameras down one cat5 there will be no remaining pairs!

cat5 has 4 pairs (8 cores) and each camera takes one pair (2 cores) for video.

Yes, but you don't want to run power from the DVR end anyway... he's powering the cameras locally (ie. power for the cameras on one garage, is in that garage).

[ljarrald 0]

@ljarrald - sorry for not explaining properly. I meant video and power down one CAT5. Also - will the remaining pairs be able to provide 12V?

 

if you have 4 cameras down one cat5 there will be no remaining pairs!

cat5 has 4 pairs (8 cores) and each camera takes one pair (2 cores) for video.

Yes, but you don't want to run power from the DVR end anyway... he's powering the cameras locally (ie. power for the cameras on one garage, is in that garage).

 

sounded like he wanted to power them at the DVR end to me...

[Numb-nuts 1]

Cat5 is the right choice here, passive or powered baluns depending on distance to a dstribution box at each garage hwere you can either

1. end with a 4 way balun and use coax to the camera

2. Use a idc junction box and CAT5 to each camera ending with a single balun

3. for long distances from the DVR to distribution points use active or powered baluns to distribution points and then end with coax.

at each distribution point take a feed to a 12v PSU from mains and go to each camera

 

Are your PT heads 12VDC or 24VAC? They are usually 24VAC but if they come with the camera they may be 12VDC.

if they were 24VAC I would run 24VAC from the distribution points to the cameras and step down to 12vDC at the camera, that way you'd have 24VAC for the PT heads and 12VDC for the cameras. BIT MESSY though.

 

If your budget will allow, there are 10 and 16 and 25 pair UTP cables available but they are hard to find and expensive.

In the UK try Batt cables or Eland.

[tomcctv 190]

i think both of these posts are your best option and both give you scop for converting to ip by just changing baluns to switch.

 

 

the only part that has changed is the addition to send PTZ data. this can also run down cat5 though your baluns via a digital sender which cost around £30

 

both of these posts will do what you want

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=27263

 

 

Wiring diagram: http://www.gliffy.com/publish/3212437/

 

Anyway - have a few questions.

 

1) What type of balun will there be at the camera end to receive power & video?

Any type of balun will do - you don't NEED one with power pass-through. You can use regular screw-terminal or toolless baluns and just split out the ends of the Cat5e yourself - wire one pair to the balun, two other pairs to the power connector, and leave one pair as spare (I normally use blue for video, green and orange for power, and brown for a spare - no particular reason).

 

OR you can use the type with an RJ-45 connector on one end, and BNC and power leads on the other end.

 

It really is up to you as a matter of personal preference.

 

2) What equipment will I need in both garages to be able to receive 4x video feeds?

A four-channel balun, or four single baluns. Again, personal preference.

 

3) What equipment will I need to send these feeds back to the DVR?

No special equipment needed here.

 

4) What equipment will I need at the DVR to receive these feeds so I can plug them into the back of the DVR.

Two four-channel baluns, one eight-channel balun, or eight single baluns. Again, personal preference.

 

5) If I have a PTZ control on one of these, I'm aware I'll probably need another pair. If I had another pair going from a camera to the garage, how could I further pass this on?

You could use one pair in the camera's Cat5 run (such as the brown spare in my example) to get the control signal to the camera. To get it back to the DVR however, you'll need another pair available between buildings. Personally, I'd just pull two Cat5 between each building, to have the extra capacity.

 

I do recall going over this before... the advice given really wasn't "conflicting", it was just different methods to achieve the same end.

 

Look, this is the easiest way to do it with a minimum of needing to splice wires:

 

Use something like this at each camera:

 

- it uses one pair for video, three for power.

 

Then use something like this centralized in the garage - four baluns *and power* in one unit:

 

 

Plug each camera run into one of the jacks, 1 thru 4.

 

Then plug your run going back to the DVR into the "4 in 1" jack.

 

Repeat all this for the second garage.

 

At the DVR, take your two runs from the two garages, and plug them into this:

 

 

Then run 8 short coax cables from that to the DVR.

 

If you want PTZ control, run another wire (be it 18/2, station-Z, Cat5, whatever) direct from the DVR to the camera.

 

THIS IS NOT THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT, so any different advice is not necessarily "conflicting"... it's just different. However, this is a nice, clean, painless way to do it.

[jdowning 0]

Hi Numb-nuts, my bad... the CCTV camera I used was the only camera that was available to choose... the cameras will either be dome or housed cameras.

 

I wanted to power the cameras via the CAT5 cable. Will most non-IR domes be able to handle this? Runs won't be THAT long. Do I just use one of the active baluns to power the camera as someone mentioned above?

 

Cheers for the link Tom.

Cat5 is the right choice here, passive or powered baluns depending on distance to a dstribution box at each garage hwere you can either

1. end with a 4 way balun and use coax to the camera

2. Use a idc junction box and CAT5 to each camera ending with a single balun

3. for long distances from the DVR to distribution points use active or powered baluns to distribution points and then end with coax.

at each distribution point take a feed to a 12v PSU from mains and go to each camera

 

Are your PT heads 12VDC or 24VAC? They are usually 24VAC but if they come with the camera they may be 12VDC.

if they were 24VAC I would run 24VAC from the distribution points to the cameras and step down to 12vDC at the camera, that way you'd have 24VAC for the PT heads and 12VDC for the cameras. BIT MESSY though.

 

If your budget will allow, there are 10 and 16 and 25 pair UTP cables available but they are hard to find and expensive.

In the UK try Batt cables or Eland.

[Soundy 1]

I wanted to power the cameras via the CAT5 cable. Will most non-IR domes be able to handle this? Runs won't be THAT long. Do I just use one of the active baluns to power the camera as someone mentioned above?

Whether a balun is "active" has nothing to do with powering the camera or housing - it just means the balun uses active (powered) circuitry rather than a simple balancing transformer.

 

Whether you can power the IR via Cat5 depends entirely on how much current it draws, how long the run is, and how many pairs you're using for power. If the illuminator draws 2A and you're only using two pairs to run 500', then no... if you can dedicate three pairs to power a camera and 500mA illuminator over 50', then you're golden.

[tomcctv 190]

I wanted to power the cameras via the CAT5 cable. Will most non-IR domes be able to handle this? Runs won't be THAT long. Do I just use one of the active baluns to power the camera as someone mentioned above?

Whether a balun is "active" has nothing to do with powering the camera or housing - it just means the balun uses active (powered) circuitry rather than a simple balancing transformer.

 

 

and you say your cables are already run. so if you need power and data them more cable is needed. but it is always best to power camera from camera end on long runs.

 

 

so even with just the 1 cat5 you have you can have 4 cameras and on local power if you need data (for ptz) you can run that along with your video over the 1 single cat5

[jdowning 0]

Hi Tom,

 

I don't mean to run 4 video feeds over 1 CAT5 cable.

 

Each camera will have it's own CAT5 cable. For the dome cameras, I'll power them via the one cable if that's possible and for the housed/PTZ cameras, I'll have separate 2 core cable going to the camera & data and video supplied by the CAT5.

 

Is this ok?

 

Cheers

 

I wanted to power the cameras via the CAT5 cable. Will most non-IR domes be able to handle this? Runs won't be THAT long. Do I just use one of the active baluns to power the camera as someone mentioned above?

Whether a balun is "active" has nothing to do with powering the camera or housing - it just means the balun uses active (powered) circuitry rather than a simple balancing transformer.

 

Whether you can power the IR via Cat5 depends entirely on how much current it draws, how long the run is, and how many pairs you're using for power. If the illuminator draws 2A and you're only using two pairs to run 500', then no... if you can dedicate three pairs to power a camera and 500mA illuminator over 50', then you're golden.

 

Hi there - sorry Soundy, I meant non-IR cameras!

 

Are non-IR cameras better? I want to get a good image & the lighting is pretty sufficient around the building to cope with this. Does it need a lot of light to pick up a good image? Do I go for true day night / digital day night?

 

Cheers

 

Jack

[tomcctv 190]

for cat5 to each camera then you just need 2 of these one on camera and the other dvr. you can only use 1 Pair of your cat5 so the other pairs you use for power for the camera.

 

same for your PTZ except 1 pair for video and 1 pair for PTZ data