crow 0 Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) hi where would you install cameras on this shape building can use upto 6 fixed cameras or 5 fixed and 1 cheep ptz plenty of light at front and left side but no light at right or back also what cameras would be good to use £600 camera budget cheers building is 200 feet x 60 feet Edited February 11, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 7, 2012 Not enough information. Are these cameras going inside or outside? What's around the building? What are the areas of concern? Doors? Parking lot(s)? Storage areas? Are you worried about internal theft, external theft, car break-ins, building break-ins? Is it all open? Fenced? Gated? Paved? Overgrown? Forested? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crow 0 Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) the cameras are going on the outside and then 1 or 2 will be fitted later on the inside its just the outside for now there is a carpark to left of the building just open land around the rest of it all way round the outside needs to be covered to protect whats inside there is open land on 3 sides and carpark on 1 . thanks for any sugestions would this be ok or can it be planed better Edited February 11, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crow 0 Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) a better picture of the building if thats any better Edited February 11, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulsonLaw 0 Posted February 8, 2012 Well.... & I only play a professional on the internet If you can only handle 6, make 1 a PTZ & make one a fish eye 180 degree 180 cam example only.... Clover HDC500 Panoramic E.T. Color Camera CCTV camera - fixed - weatherproof Good luck This assuming your DVR can auto scan w/ the PTZ & has motion tracking option.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ljarrald 0 Posted February 8, 2012 PaulsonLaws idea is good, the fisheye won't catch detail though. i would put the PTZ on the corner, where PaulsonLaw placed the fisheye, you get a LOT more coverage then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 8, 2012 The tough part of all this is the area you need to cover. Unfortunately, any camera in that price range that covers the entire area, won't give you any usable level of detail: you'll see people moving about and might even see them perpetrating, but it will be virtually impossible to identify anyone. Unless you have someone watching and monitoring the live video who can call the cops when they see something hinky going on, I'm afraid there's a good chance the results will be useless. Remember that a PTZ will only record what it's looking at, and without a person operating it, it will be of very limited use in a situation like this: even if you have it on a constant tour, it will still only catch a small area at a time and miss the rest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 8, 2012 with a ptz you will miss something if it happend ........... i know you say you only need 6 cameras but you would have to buy a 8 way dvr anyway so i would go to 8 cameras for more coverage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crow 0 Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) thanks for the sugestions ill take them on board will have to have extra cameras if possible a couple of extra varifocal to zoom in on the hot spots what about this also the house max 6 fixed cameras or 2 ptz and 2 fixed there is a upvc conservatory to the right garden cheers Edited February 11, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulsonLaw 0 Posted February 8, 2012 True, never thought about the detail of a fisheye, 2x the data on the same channel would have to mean 1/2 the detail..... I agree, 8 cams would set you fine there... Have you bought a system yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crow 0 Posted February 8, 2012 Have you bought a system yet? not for my friend yet my friend for the house and large building above is thinking of 2 x apollo 8 hd's and we are going to see a local instaler to price all the cameras and cable and power suplys e.c.t tomorrow we are in the uk wheres a good place to buy from at a good resonable rate and what price do we need to be paying for an apollo hd 8 channel 500 or 1000 gb? thanks for all your help and advice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ljarrald 0 Posted February 9, 2012 True, never thought about the detail of a fisheye, 2x the data on the same channel would have to mean 1/2 the detail..... in places where i need a wide FOV i have used two (sometimes even more) cameras on channels next to eachother on the DVR (1 and 2, 3 and 4, etc) it works well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted February 9, 2012 Remember that a PTZ will only record what it's looking at, and without a person operating it, it will be of very limited use in a situation like this: even if you have it on a constant tour, it will still only catch a small area at a time and miss the rest. I've come to realize that as I recommend ptz's to my employer as well. That's why I think if you're talking ptz, it must have auto tracking. That's the best shot at honing in on something and getting useful ID. And it would seem like the ptz would actually serve better mostly parked fairly wide, or with a few wide overlapping presets so motion will kick auto tracking in. And from what I've seen, auto tracking ptz's are pricey. There are some down in the 800 or so range, but it's usually more like 1,300 and up. But I still think a ptz with auto tracking is the ultimate way to go to cover large expanses. The auto tracking serves as the person working the camera when no ones there, and you still have nice control for the person who will be there on security shifts to zero in on things as needed. I'm all but convinced well placed auto tracking ptz's is the only way to cover large, multiple areas and have a shot at anything for ID. Other than that, like Soundy says- all you do is see it, with no ID capability. I only post this link for the video footage of the ptz auto tracking vids- http://www.skywaysecurity.com/auto-tracking-ptz-camera-video.cfm Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 9, 2012 Auto-tracking looks like a good idea... until you have more than one object to track. Then you'd better hope it chooses the right one. Or hope that there IS only one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted February 9, 2012 Yes. There are a few youtube demos of this. There has to be some kind of formula when the object cross paths. Perhaps it's the closer one? 7Y2TsMgZKuM C3SBHgVJ6HU Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 9, 2012 How many of those demos are staged events by the manufacturers to make their product look good, though? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted February 9, 2012 Oh of course. All of them I would think. At least it's some kind of demos to show how the camera behaves though, I suppose. Even though AT may not be perfect, I think it's better to have it than just relying on preset tours- especially if the cameras will be unmaned for periods of time. I actually thought the nightime IR one was pretty freakin good considering. That's one of those domeless ones I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiona 0 Posted February 9, 2012 Dan, further to the problem of Auto Tracking... I don't think anyone would criticize the possibility of Auto Tracking if it could be established that a Robust solution could be easily integrated into a Pelco protocol unit. Like Soundy said, the manufacturers will say and do anything to unload their rubbish. The Auto Tracking may work under perfectly controlled conditions - no leaves; cats; rubbish; moths; headlight glare; rain on the dome etc. etc. For some of us, the possible contingencies just don't add up. Not to to a professional solution they don't. But I do not want to dissuade you. You may be able to find an answer that will identify and track people only: a solution that does not cost $500+ on top of all of the rest of the costs associated with speed domes. Many of us work on private projects and then discuss our research on the forum. One thing seems certain; there are no easy solutions or magic bullets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted February 9, 2012 The ideal alternative is a high-megapixel camera that can simply record the entire coverage area, all the time, so zooming in live OR recorded gives the same results. A great example is this Avigilon demo: http://avigilon.com/products/samplefootage/images/airportCheckIn.html (wave your mouse over the picture). Of course, that particular solution will cost you about 20 times what a cheap PTZ will... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted February 9, 2012 Yeah, I've seen that demo more than a few times. Talk about drilling into a shot. But yeah, cost prohibitive in most situations I would think. But that for sure is the ultimate. Dan, further to the problem of Auto Tracking...I don't think anyone would criticize the possibility of Auto Tracking if it could be established that a Robust solution could be easily integrated into a Pelco protocol unit. Like Soundy said, the manufacturers will say and do anything to unload their rubbish. The Auto Tracking may work under perfectly controlled conditions - no leaves; cats; rubbish; moths; headlight glare; rain on the dome etc. etc. For some of us, the possible contingencies just don't add up. Not to to a professional solution they don't. But I do not want to dissuade you. You may be able to find an answer that will identify and track people only: a solution that does not cost $500+ on top of all of the rest of the costs associated with speed domes. Many of us work on private projects and then discuss our research on the forum. One thing seems certain; there are no easy solutions or magic bullets. Yeah, the application needed would indeed suffer from any of those contingencies. It's those reasons that had me thinking a regular ptz would be a more reasonable cost, and less fussy. The last thing I would want to do is push for an expensive ptz with AT and have the thing constantly interrupted and chasing false triggers. I really wanted a ptz to be able to move and zoom in on the many things I need to keep an eye on here at work- many areas of high importance considering what I'm monitoring. I just thought auto tracking was the icing on that cake. Without me working the camera, it would indeed be a matter of preset tours, without much chance of being in the right place at the right time when the wrong thing is happening. I suppose when it comes to even ptz's, maybe it's best to keep it simple. I don't know. All I know is fixed cameras, even with good fov and dof, won't give me near as much as a ptz can- all over this property to monitor. To the OP- I'm sorry to crash the thread a bit, but maybe some of the hash could be food for thought in your install as well. Dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fiona 0 Posted February 9, 2012 Just read "E1109 5.00pm to New York" on the Departures' board. Which Avigilon camera is this? One of these I'd guess: http://avigilon.com/products/cameras-video/ Spec sheet for Avigilon HD H.264 cameras: http://avigilon.com/products/datasheets/A4/HD-H264-IP-A4.pdf Youtube demonstration of 16 Megapixel Avigilon: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chesterfield 0 Posted February 9, 2012 Its the 16mp pro camera Fiona. http://avigilon.com/products/cameras-video/pro-ip/ You can actually download sample footage of that airport terminal, taken from the 16mp camera (as per the still shot), and play with it in the Avigilon player software. You need the airport check-in footage sample from here: http://avigilon.com/products/samplefootage/ The player software can be found at the bottom of that page too. Hope that helps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulsonLaw 0 Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Prob not to smart to post where phase 1 is located lol Edited February 10, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted February 9, 2012 The OP mentions wanting to use a ptz. Assuming we're talking a more typical, affordable solution, is there any recommendation for such a ptz? Surely there must be some concensus on a decent ptz to consider. I'd sure be interested as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 9, 2012 CNB do very good PTZ cameras. with a long list to pick from. the idea is not to get caught into the auto track PTZs you only see this on cheap cameras. and its not a true auto track. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
