nDAlk90 0 Posted February 20, 2012 Every other company with a website also claims they are a manufacturer... Just like every other person with a pickup truck claims they are a contractor... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 20, 2012 Every other company with a website also claims they are a manufacturer... Just like every other person with a pickup truck claims they are a contractor... Yes I "manufacturer" everything on my website (i put the html and code together ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted February 20, 2012 Yeah, I get ya's. You have to do what's right for you, in the end. When it comes to budget gear, I'm finding my buys from them entirely acceptable at this point, simple as that. But I'm also willing to step up to better cameras along the way too. FF here is following the DIY route- a path experienced people try and help you avoid, but ultimatley it comes down to how far you can stretch a short budget and still get gear that will deliver something for you. The DIY road- - Buy a boxed system, convincing yourself everyone who says it's garbage is a gear snob with tons of money to spend on the good stuff. Lucky them, but I'll show 'em regardless. - Install said box system. - Look at the monitor and say hell, that looks fine- see, I WAS right. - Four weeks in realise it doesn't really look fine after all. Damn, maybe they WERE right- this stuff sucks. Usually one or more cameras outright fail too. - Tear down said boxed system, while cursing of course. - Piece together better gear, only now upwards of 3-500 balloons in the hole from said boxed system garbage, unless you're lucky enough to get your money back. - Manage to put together a better system that will have a chance of actually identify someone, but still on short budgets. There's total crap budget gear, and there's some that will actually work well for you and hold up. - Put all that into place and like it much better - About the one year mark or so, get antsy for even better cameras and seek to swap out for better ones- one camera at a time if need be. This is usually coupled with a want for MORE cameras and/or placement adjustment. It is fun after all. We need to noodle with the gear- it's a hobby too. Just make sure what you DO have up can ID a crook. Leave the head shot quality to the local photographer down the street. He'll be available after the next wedding. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 20, 2012 the poor mans road ... just get cheapest best cams you can afford and focus them in on choke points. eg the path which someone would enter your property, or front door, etc. throw up a couple cams for general overview also. you can always switch individual cams out later. low res is fine for small field of views like choke points. get higher res for larger areas. 1/4" high lux cameras will help with low noise, but wont see anything in low light. if you need extra IR buy a 6mm $20 IR bullet camera off amazon and use just the IR from it. if you already have a cheap color IR with alot of IR but crappy camera, and want to upgrade the camera, get a decent day night without IR to save money (eg. CNB VBM-24VF) and then use only the IR from your old cheap color IR for extra light (if needed). also consider 2nd hand cameras, eg. where the IR burned up on a TDN IR Bullet, just use the camera without IR or add IR separately as above. Older and some newer IR bullets let you easily disconnect the IR ring and it still works as day night. All my cameras at my appt are 2nd hand which were either broken or just old. Had to move them around and adjust until i got the perfect shots (best possible with what I had). Ofcourse they continue to change as I get my hands on better 2nd hand cameras Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 20, 2012 as for the DVR, i was lucky to get a new demo unit for free to test, but i never bought a hard drive for it yet. if you cant get a demo, least by a new DVR. Dahua budget unit with same network software and most of the features of their more expensive units, costs approx $140 retail for a 4 channel (eg. QVis Zeus). Be warned wont be able to upgrade the firmware and it may be a little lower quality in some cases, but hardly noticeable - either way it blows away the cheap DVRs of times gone by. Hard drives are expensive these days, so what I did was at first just recorded it over the network to my PC .... later someone was upgrading their hard drive so I got their old hard drive for free. The only thing I ever paid money for was some cable, everything else was free Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Firefighter 0 Posted February 20, 2012 See last page? I already bought DVR, Hard Drive, Box Camera, Enclosure, 3 lenses and wiring Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 20, 2012 In this particular case the high TVL coincidentally comes with the rest of the camera specs- one being smart IR's. That's all. If their 520's had smart IR and TDN, I'd surely jump on them at an even cheaper cost, but they don't. any camera that states 750tvl is usless when used with white light i.e flood your lucky if you get 580/600tvl and then you have the other problem. as seen by 3 new posts just last week 700tvl at night the ops are seeing what they call snow big white dots from the camera to the point you cant see anything and plays hell with alarms set. best with low tvl with IR 520-560 is say the limit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 20, 2012 any camera that states 750tvl is usless when used with white light i.e flood your lucky if you get 580/600tvl and then you have the other problem. as seen by 3 new posts just last week 700tvl at night the ops are seeing what they call snow big white dots from the camera to the point you cant see anything and plays hell with alarms set. best with low tvl with IR 520-560 is say the limit 700TVL 960H Sony Effio from KT&C Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 20, 2012 any camera that states 750tvl is usless when used with white light i.e flood your lucky if you get 580/600tvl and then you have the other problem. as seen by 3 new posts just last week 700tvl at night the ops are seeing what they call snow big white dots from the camera to the point you cant see anything and plays hell with alarms set. best with low tvl with IR 520-560 is say the limit 700TVL 960H Sony Effio from KT&C my point exactly rory thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 20, 2012 my point exactly rory thank you. Best TDN camera at night I have used in a couple years, blows away the monalisas. Best image yet with that dusk to dawn light, all others still produce noise or the light glare kills them - this was perfect. That is pitch dark on right by the way, it is short range 940nm IR LEDs. They have the step up with much more IR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted February 20, 2012 What point was Rory's pic making 'exactly'? It's a great shot- 700 tvl with no noise! LOL! This is a first I'm hearing about 700 tvl itself causing a problem. I would think the crappy camera overall would be suspect- not just 700 tvl being lumped as a cause for all cameras. In general I also avoid pointing the cameras into light bulb fixtures as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 20, 2012 What point was Rory's pic making 'exactly'? It's a great shot- 700 tvl with no noise! LOL! its a true D/N with no IR. an image you will never get with a gadspot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted February 20, 2012 Ok, so you don't like gadspots. Fair enough. I find it interesting though that most of the pics I see from from higher end analog cameras here mostly suck. Not all- but I've yet to see seriously good pics from better cameras yet. Do tell...or post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 20, 2012 Ok, so you don't like gadspots it has nothing to do with like or dislike. its to do with either DIYer or PRO getting the best for there money. one thing every pro will tell you is a camera with built in IR is less effective than 1 without. you have to remember gadspot is only a distributor 1 in most countries they buy 1000s of unbranded for $30 put there name on and sell for $90 but you still only have a $30 camera for around the same price you can go TDN no ir no flood just street lighting. and get 2 years warranty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SEANHAWG 1 Posted February 20, 2012 By golly that was taken with a Qvis DVR if I'm not mistaken Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockwave199 0 Posted February 20, 2012 I'm not gonna defend quality levels. Of course I agree on that point. Like I said- what one chooses is up to them. I'm not pushing anything. I suggested the gads- the pics I get for that quality level speaks for itself. This pic again- a TDN with IR @ 600tvl looks every bit as good as anything I've seen including the one you just posted... except I can actually see the person at a decent size. A 60 dollar camera that's been through rain, 15F freezing cold, a hurricane, heat wave, you name it and it's still going. The OP will have to take all into consideration and decide for himself. What Tom and others suggest is completely right- get quality from quality sources. That I don't argue- no brainer. And to that I wish you good luck and good pictures! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 20, 2012 What point was Rory's pic making 'exactly'? It's a great shot- 700 tvl with no noise! LOL! its a true D/N with no IR. an image you will never get with a gadspot. It has IR, but very little due to being short range and 940nm. But even with hardly any IR one can see how amazing it handles itself in low light, as the IR beam itself doesnt even go as far as the jeep in the image, in fact to begin with I thought the IR was not even working. Im only using it on a job as a TDN though, as it doesnt need IR in that case. I would like to try their step up with the longer range IR sometime, but it costs $50 more, and can only hope the actual camera is the same but only with the additional 830nm IR instead. But the thing that really impressed me was the color night image, all other TDNs I have tested dont match it, and ofcourse color IR cameras dont even come close to it. Even though its a Sony Effio, I used the $60 Sony Effio indoor dome from KT&C also, had to send 17 of them back!! it was a horrible image full of noise. Ofcourse the camera in the image above costs from $230, big difference from $60, and shows that cost really does matter .. sometimes at least Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 20, 2012 some comparions ... approx retail pricing. LIGHTS ON 1/4" Cheap Color IR 420TVL - <?>$30 1/3" Cheap Color IR Brand#1 420TVL - <$40 1/3" Cheap Color IR Brand#2 420TVL - <$40 1/3" KT&C 550TVL Mini Color Bullet - >$75 1/3" CNB 600TVL TDN Monalisa Box Camera, 2.8-12mm Tamron lens - <$100 (+lens) 1/3" CNB 480TVL 5-50mm TDN IR Bullet - <$350 1/3" KT&C 700TVL 2.8-12mm TDN IR Bullet (940nm) - >$230 PITCH DARK 1/3" Cheap Color IR Brand#1 420TVL - <$40 1/3" Cheap Color IR Brand#2 420TVL - <$40 1/3" Cantek (123) 600TVL 2.8-12mm Color IR - >$100 1/3" XTS 4-9mm Color IR - <$100 1/3" CNB B2760 480TVL TDN IR - >$120 1/3" CNB 600TVL TDN Monalisa Box Camera, 2.8-12mm Tamron lens - <$100 (+lens) 1/3" Exclipse CCTV 600TVL 598HIM TDN IR 2.8-11mm - <>$180 1/3" KT&C 700TVL 2.8-12mm TDN IR Bullet (940nm) - >$230 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 20, 2012 Tamron lens know that is the King of analog cameras Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 20, 2012 And this gives an example of how a BIG area compares to a SMALL area And how the performance of something like a cheap color IR can vary considerably from one location to the next ... ofcourse your miles may vary! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 20, 2012 Tamron lens know that is the King of analog cameras Not sure if I would use them again. They were okay, but I may go Computar instead. Used both and fujinon over the years though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 20, 2012 Tamron lens know that is the King of analog cameras Not sure if I would use them again. They were okay, but I may go Computar instead. Used both and fujinon over the years though. have you tried there cameras ..... beats computar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 20, 2012 have you tried there cameras ..... beats computar Tamron Cameras? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tomcctv 190 Posted February 20, 2012 have you tried there cameras ..... beats computar Tamron Cameras? yes there little domes only 540 tvl but beats anything on the market in analog..... but comes at a price. auto focus 3.8 to 45mm lens (which you dont find on anyother dome) i sent details to Sean last week Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rory 0 Posted February 20, 2012 yes there little domes only 540 tvl but beats anything on the market in analog..... but comes at a price. auto focus 3.8 to 45mm lens (which you dont find on anyother dome) i sent details to Sean last week I dont see anything on Tamron's site except lenses? is this something new? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
