Equipment Help Needed

[ERM322 0]

I'm looking for a DVR and cameras. My home alarm company just recommended the Nuvico DV3-400 DVR and 4 Nuvico CB-HDE21N-L cameras. His quote is:

 

4 Cameras at $175 each: $700

8 CCTV Baluns at $14.25 each: $114

1000 feet CAT5SE Cable: $300

4 12VDC .8mA Power Supply: $98

1 DVR w/ Smartphone Access: $850

Installation $360

Total: $2,422

 

The total price is not bothering me, but I have no idea what I'm getting for that much money. Are these quality products? Can I get better for less money?

 

Thanks in advance

[jtetterton 0]

I'm looking for a DVR and cameras. My home alarm company just recommended the Nuvico DV3-400 DVR and 4 Nuvico CB-HDE21N-L cameras. His quote is:

 

4 Cameras at $175 each: $700

8 CCTV Baluns at $14.25 each: $114

1000 feet CAT5SE Cable: $300

4 12VDC .8mA Power Supply: $98

1 DVR w/ Smartphone Access: $850

Installation $360

Total: $2,422

 

The total price is not bothering me, but I have no idea what I'm getting for that much money. Are these quality products? Can I get better for less money?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Camera seem to be priced OK, I have no experience with them.

Balun's seems overpriced if they are passive.

Cat5 seems way overpriced. I bought a 500' box at lowes for $61.

Power supplies seem overpriced.

4ch DVR seems overpriced... mpeg4 compression from the specs. You can get an Apollo 4ch H.264 compression and D1 res (7fps) on all channels.

 

I would source the equipment myself and have him install it if you're not comfortable doing so, you could save quite a bit.

[Fiona 0]

Hi ERM322, thanks for the lovely PM.

 

The best recommendation I have for you is this. If you have the time and the interest and the commitment, you can build a very good home system yourself. If you are not so technically minded that's OK too. You can specify to an installer that you would like a purpose built system. Many installers or cctv companies will only work with products they stock or use regularly - so specifiying an exact camera or DVR may be difficult. The very good installers shouldn't mind too much is you hand them a list of the items that will be recommended on this form. If your installer balks or complains about those recommendations then you will know they are not up to scratch.

 

There are many very experienced installers on this forum and, on a good day, they can save you a lot of money and save you from endless headaches. If you stick with their recommendations, you will be able to get quick forum support.

 

The fundamental question has to do with the objectives you have for a system. This depends on the layout of your property and specific concerns you want the cameras to address. Often folk think of a CCTV system as a panacea to various security problems, when it can only function as part of an overall security plan.

 

The last thing I'd say here is please don't make price the criterion for any purchases. Better, more expensive cameras are a very cheap investment in the long run: when calculated over, say, five years or longer.

 

P.S. Don't be afraid to ask any questions. That's the only way to learn.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Cat5 Baluns? Why?

 

1000' or RG59/18-2 Simiese cable and BNC connectors would be less money, cleaner install, and no future problems.

[Soundy 1]

Those baluns and cable are WAY overpriced - a 1000' box of Cat5e should retail for around $100 (at least anywhere in N.A.), and good baluns can be had for around $5/pair. Siamese cable is a PITA to work with compared to Cat5e.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Siamese cable is a PITA to work with compared to Cat5e.

 

Ok then RG59 and a 18-2

 

Cat5 SUCKS for video and power. It's solid coper and ALWAYS breaks at the Balun or the power splice over time.

[Soundy 1]

Well that's your opinion... I have tens of thousands of feet of Cat5e in dozens of installs that say otherwise.

[Numb-nuts 1]

Siamese cable is a PITA to work with compared to Cat5e.

 

Ok then RG59 and a 18-2

 

Cat5 SUCKS for video and power. It's solid coper and ALWAYS breaks at the Balun or the power splice over time.

 

I don't agree, cat5 is very good it's just that cat5 is not designed to work with screw down terminals, it is designed for IDC punch-down terminals or crimping. If you use cat5 for for video or power it should be terminated using cord end ferrules properly crimped to the ends. This will solve the intermittence problems many people experience. I have remedied many problems using ferrules and frankly I wouldn't use cat5 without them unless using an RJ45.

You need a crimper with a lower end range from 0 .25mm or at the very least 0.5mm the upper limit is up to you probably as much as 6mm. This supplier quotes sizes in both AWG and mm.

 

Click image to visit the supplier

 

[Soundy 1]

I don't agree, cat5 is very good it's just that cat5 is not designed to work with screw down terminals, it is designed for IDC punch-down terminals or crimping. If you use cat5 for for video or power it should be terminated using cord end ferrules properly crimped to the ends.

Maybe it's just me then, but unless I'm really sloppy with the strippers and give the wire a *bad* nick, I've never had a Cat5 wire break when used for power or video. Almost all power supplies use clamp-down screw terminals, so you don't have to wrap the wire around the screw - just push it through and tighten it down. Some baluns ("toolless" types) use punch terminals... others, like the GEMs we normally use, also have clamp-down screw terminals that are no hassle with the 24ga. wire.

 

If you're having that much trouble with it, you should re-examine your own technique, not the choice of wire.

[Numb-nuts 1]

I would source the equipment myself and have him install it if you're not comfortable doing so, you could save quite a bit.

 

If I were the installer I'd tell you to take a walk if you did that. His pricing is very strange. I would ask him if he would re negotiate the price. If you buy your own equipment and you are not happy when the system in installed, the installer will say you bought the equipment it's no good, but if you buy from the installer he will make sure that everything works together and is of good quality. If it's not it's his responsibility. The guy's gotta make a living too, it's not all about price.

 

I'm just surprised he itemized the prices of individual items. I list all items and place a single price plus labour and commissioning. at the end but then the customer knows what equipment they are buying.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Matt I'm going to take some pictures for you of a site I visit every now and then.

 

4 16 channel DVRs stacked in a rack and every camera is on a cat5 with a Balun. It looks like a cluster F*&K.

[Soundy 1]

And I'll take one for you where the Cat5 all terminates in a patch panel, with patch cables from there into a rackmounted PSU/balun unit. Very clean - much cleaner than having separate wire runs to a wall-mounted power supply.

 

Clusterf*ckery is a result of a careless or lazy installer, nothing to do with the type of cable and connectors used. I could show you some all-coax-and-18/2 installations that are utter spaghetti bowls, too.

[Numb-nuts 1]

And I'll take one for you where the Cat5 all terminates in a patch panel, with patch cables from there into a rackmounted PSU/balun unit. Very clean - much cleaner than having separate wire runs to a wall-mounted power supply.

 

Clusterf*ckery is a result of a careless or lazy installer, nothing to do with the type of cable and connectors used. I could show you some all-coax-and-18/2 installations that are utter spaghetti bowls, too.

 

I can't wait to see these pictures fellas, it's like a duel by digipic.

[ERM322 0]

You guys are cracking me up.

 

Just to be clear, the installer is my home alarm monitoring company. I am not obligated to use him, but don't know anyone else in Los Angeles.

 

So, I read lots of posts while poking around and ended up calling Nelly's this morning. I bought their best 8 channel DVR (which is much higher quality than the recommended one) for much less. I was told that the cameras (Nuvico CB-HDE21N-L) were of very good quality and he did not currently have something better for the money.

 

So, is there a good supply place where I should pick up the baluns and CAT5 cable?

[Numb-nuts 1]

Well thats a step in the right direction at least.

[Soundy 1]

You guys are cracking me up.

 

Just to be clear, the installer is my home alarm monitoring company. I am not obligated to use him, but don't know anyone else in Los Angeles.

 

So, I read lots of posts while poking around and ended up calling Nelly's this morning. I bought their best 8 channel DVR (which is much higher quality than the recommended one) for much less. I was told that the cameras (Nuvico CB-HDE21N-L) were of very good quality and he did not currently have something better for the money.

 

So, is there a good supply place where I should pick up the baluns and CAT5 cable?

Cat5e is probably the easiest to pick up at your local Home Depot/Lowes/etc. A 1000' box should go for around $100 (or about 10 cents/ft. - you'll probably find it's 30-40 cents/ft. if you buy it pre-cut).

 

For baluns, check out http://www.easterncctv.com/accessories/balun-p.htm. Last couple big jobs, I've been using this unit for the head-end: http://www.easterncctv.com/accessories/ev16p-vps.htm and these at the camera end: http://www.easterncctv.com/accessories/ev01p-vp.htm