No where else to turn...(sorry for the long post)

[icu 0]

Hello forum,

 

I have contacted several local CCTV dealers/installers regarding upgrading an existing system to include motion based recording.

The system, as it currently stands, consists of 4 bullet cameras hooked up through a quad into a monitor (or a normal tv). The problem is that EVERY dealer has told me that the ONLY solution is to purchase a $3k dvr (which just looks like a cheap computer with a capture card slaped in).

 

Is there no way to record ONLY motion using a time-lapse vcr based system? I have investigated the option of running seperate motion detectors to the vcr, but the problem with this solution is that if one of the motion alarms is tripped, all of the cameras will be recorded. I have also seen other devices that can do this, but NOT in a cost effective manner (when combined with the cost of the vcr anyway). While I would like to keep costs at a minimum, image quality is my top priority (and that is why I am trying to find a vcr based solution).

 

Also, I have read somewhere of a modulator that can split the signal into 2 different viewing locations, can anybody shed some light on this product?

 

ICU

[AVCONSULTING 0]

Check out the VTR-DV04, near bottom of page. It has built in motion detection system. The only other way would be to buy a 4 channel video motion detector which isn't much cheaper.

 

 

http://www.vsscctv.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=486

[rory 0]

Is there no way to record ONLY motion using a time-lapse vcr based system? I have investigated the option of running seperate motion detectors to the vcr, but the problem with this solution is that if one of the motion alarms is tripped, all of the cameras will be recorded. I have also seen other devices that can do this, but NOT in a cost effective manner (when combined with the cost of the vcr anyway). While I would like to keep costs at a minimum, image quality is my top priority (and that is why I am trying to find a vcr based solution).

 

#1 - if you are looking for image quality, a DVR is the way to go, VCRs do not compare.

 

Ill give you an example:

 

Kalatel Video Digital Recorder - same price as a Time Lapse VCR:

http://www.geindustrial.com/cwc/products/ge-interlogix?pnlid=9&famid=63&catid=1088&id=VDR&lang=en_US

 

You can still record out to a standard VCR tape if you want, or use Compaq Flash to transfer video to a PC. It has a superb 720x484 Resolution.

 

#2 - Motion Detection without a mux?

 

Pelco has a single channel Motion detector, still not that cheap:

http://www.pelco.com/products/controlsite/miscellaneous/motiondetectors.aspx

 

Or you could buy a 4 channel multiplxer with motion built in.

 

Also, I have read somewhere of a modulator that can split the signal into 2 different viewing locations, can anybody shed some light on this product?

ICU

 

#3 - do you mean a split 2 way screen? or out to different TVs, aux channel? or using cable TV channel with a RF modulator lie to view on channel 3/4 or other?

 

Rory[/url]

[cctv_down_under 0]

You might be better with cameras that only sendd the video when there is motion, this is achieved by a PIR built into a camera, you can also get a camera,pir that can activate the recording mechanism of your VCR, the reason you were told to go for a DVR is two fold:

 

1/ It will cost you the same as buying a four input motion kit or a VCR that can independantly activate recording on motion of each camera.

 

2/ No one stocks this stuff much as it does not sell well, veen if you did it cheaper, for the small difference you could actually get a DVR which will give you much more.

 

Your cheapest option would be one of my 4ch Standalones they use a PIR to detect motion and you could still use your bullet (BLAH) cameras, all you would need is 4 PIR's and the standalone so that would be $150 or so for the four PIR's and $600 or so for a 4 Ch 100 Fps standalone device, thsi would allow motion.. real hardware not shadows to record your data for each channell.

[qman 0]

I might have what you need, click on my store and take a look.

 

http://www.shscomputers.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=32

[cctv_down_under 0]

That was exactly the item I was refering to, I got some of them but are yet to test it!

I see you sell their cameras too Hermin!

 

Mind you almost the same price as the standalone option once you re do everything... actually.. nah they are pretty cheap from my recollection

[icu 0]

Thanks for the great advice and quick replies.

 

1 - Based on the suggestions of the group, I have been focusing on a DVR based solution. From an earlier post, I learned that the three best DVR manufacturers are 1. Dedicated Micros 2. Kalatel 3. Everfocus

Since 1 & 2 are beyond my budget, I am seriously considering purchasing the Everfocus EDSR400F (or possibly the Vitek VT-DVR04). Does anybody have any experience with these units, specifically, the accuracy of the motion detection feature? Also, is the only difference between a simplex and duplex mux that you can record and view images simult (how about viewing stored video, would u need a triplex mux?) I am thinking about purchasing from ADI, Burtek or VSSCCTV (any comments?).

 

2 - I want the appearance of the house to remain clean. I guess my best bet is to go with an all in one (but is there better performace then with a mux + dvr?). Also, I would like the ability to monitor the system 24/7 but only record when motion is detected (can I still achieve this with a pir cam or will video only be sent when motion is detected?).

 

3 - I would like to monitor the system from upstairs in my bedroom or downstairs in the basement. I already have satelite hooked up in both locations. Would it be possible to use a RF Modulator to monitor the system on a dedicated sat channel using the existing wiring? How?

 

4 - I am not happy with the level of detail produced from one of the cameras. The camera is located about 25 ft. from the front door, attached under the garage suffet. It is pointed @ the front door @ a 45 degree angle. The problem is that the image lacks detail (i.e. people appear very small). I have read that most cctv cameras use a non-focusing lens to give a bigger field of view (i.e. with a focusing lens would you get a more detail but a smaller field of view?). Would it be possible to upgrade the lens on my lorex bullet cam to a focusing lens? (and would this do the trick?). If not, any suggestions on a good inexpensive cam with a focusing lens?

 

5 - I was recently approached about upgrading an existing analogue cctv system in an apartment building. The system currently consists of 12 cams hooked up into a mux and vcr. For insurance purposes, the video must be stored for 31 days. Would it be possible to simply replace the vcr with a dvr? Any suggestions? How much harddrive space is required to store video (with a reasonable image size) for a month?

 

Thanks again,

ICU

[rory 0]

well, you cant put Everfocus in the same level of DM and Kalatel, Everfocus is simply the cheapest thing around, and with CCTV, you get what you pay for.

[icu 0]

Could I use the quad I already have and buy a single channel dvr (w motion)? If motion is detected in one of the quads, would they all be recorded or just the quad in question?

 

There has to be another dvr out that can give motion detection and good quality images @ a reasonable cost (besides kalatel).

[rory 0]

Check this out,

 

 

havent tried it yet, but the price is I think $###, and has a CDR like the Kalatel Store SAfe, is Linux Embedded Standalone, 8 channels. If you get it let us know how it goes, I would like to maybe start selling it.

 

Specs are good, if they are as good as the specs, then it is well worth it.

The windows software is not great, but at that price, I could live with it

 

A note, embedded systems are usually either linux or nucleus, or other, they can use chipsets like the ones listed on this site, or as in Kalatel's case, powerPC chips. PowerPC parts also support Linux. I dont know a whole lot about this part of it, but thats what I found out from a little online research.

 

Rory

Edited July 27, 2007 by Guest

[rory 0]

as you are in Canada, you may want to check out MArch Networks 3108 8 channel economical DVR also, dont know the price though, if you find out please let us know Its a panel mounted DVR. Their software is very good also.

 

http://www.marchnetworks.com/products/3108dvr.asp

 

Rory

[rory 0]

One last thing, very cheao, but their cameras are still good products as I sell some of their bullets and they have lasted over 2 years so far in harbour side enviroments.

 

http://www.csi-speco.com/cart/products/productDetails.asp?prodID=474

http://www.csi-speco.com/cart/products/productDetails.asp?prodID=479

http://www.csi-speco.com/cart/products/productDetails.asp?prodID=478

 

Low priced.

 

if you are interested email me and Ill send you a link where you can purchase from.

 

Rory

[cctv_down_under 0]

I would be very interested to see this product, please keep me informed,,, looks like our engineers found a Kalatel like standalone with CDRW at the show!!

[AVCONSULTING 0]

Great, who makes it? My guys are going to Taiwan next month, I'll have them check it out. Do you think they will be at the ISC show?

[icu 0]

Thanks for the great lead Rory!

 

I'm trying to get my hands on one (just waiting for a email reply). I will keep you guys updated. Keep in mind, that I have never used a DVR before, but am more than happy to offer my impressions of this unit.

 

As for march networks DVR 3108, I invesigated that unit before. I found two local resellers:

1. Intercon Security.

2. Checkpt (I identified myself as a dealer and was quoted $3200 CAD without a HDD).

 

ICU