I need help finding a dvr!

[jimmyj 0]

I'm new to this site and am glad I found it, hoping some of you pros can help..

 

I need to replace some dvrs for a company and i need either two 32 channel or one 60+ channel dvr(s) to replace the 3 16 channel rack mount ones they had.. their are so many systems and price ranges, I just don't know where to begin. its a for a warehouse and they need a pretty good system to catch a bunch of theft happening.

any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

[Neutech 0]

What sort of DVR's are in rack mounts already?

 

Whats wrong with them?

 

Whats your deal with the Business? do you work for them?

[jimmyj 0]

Its my dads company, one server is not working and the other doesn't stay functioning properly.

only one of the three they have works properly.

[Soundy 1]

How much does he *realistically* want to spend on this? That's a lot of channels... a lot of power, and a lot of storage needed. What resolution and framerate do you need to record at (NEED, not want - everyone WANTS D1@30fps, but few NEED anything close to that)? What sort of retention does he need - 30 days? 60? More, less? Do you need remote access, smartphone access, video analytics, POS integration, etc.? As you've found, there are a LOT of options out there...

[jimmyj 0]

tons of options! I think 30 days would be suffice. the people that installed the current system made a mess of the power they have like 9 different power supply boxes and two large transformers. most boxes only using half or less of the ports.

they need remote access, mobile would be nice, and the best they can get for around 5,000.

some cameras dont work and its a jungle of cables and baluns

i would have to trouble shoot each camera and replace as well as add new ones

I dont even want to mess with the power mess they have

 

ps thanks for the response.. I have to step away from this computer right now but will get back to your response a little later

[nDAlk90 0]

Are any of the wires from the baluns broken?

 

some cameras dont work and its a jungle of cables and baluns

[jimmyj 0]

I haven't gotten to the trouble shooting yet, but besides being messy they didn't look broken. . right now i need to find some dvr(s) to replace the current ones. then i will proceed with the camera by camera to find out which need to be replaced, which ones have the cables cut, and which have a power problem. they have 48 cameras now and want to add a few so thats why I need the bigger system or the two 32's.

[Neutech 0]

I would not be going for 32 CH DVR

 

Leaves you in diffs if a DVR decides to die on you

 

16CH x 4 DVR's

 

What make/model of current DVR do you have?

[Soundy 1]

I'm a fan of PC-based systems, I use and recommend the Vigil recorders (http://www.3xlogic.com)... but I've been testing a 4-channel Dahua and been impressed by its features and performance. I'd say the 32-channel system is worth a look, for sure. Give Vigil a look, too (although they're a good bit more expensive, they're a very nice system, and fully hybrid, so you can add/upgrade IP cameras later if you want).

 

Now here's another question: you're already going to need a lot of storage, so you're probably looking at a RAID... how reliable do you want this storage to be? You COULD just have a stack of individual disks and if a disk fails, you lose that data... or you could set up an array with RAID5 (able to have one disk fail without data loss; capacity is the number of disks minus one), RAID6 (two disks can fail)... the sites where we need lots of storage, we've started doing RAID6 plus a hotspare... so out of 8 disks, 7 are in use for the array, and one sits idle until a disk in the array fails, at which point it automatically rebuilds using the hotspare.

 

The 32-channel Dahua can take up to seven internal disks, but I don't know if it will RAID them, so you need to determine if you want to use external RAID storage... and then make sure the DVR can use that (usually via network).

[Soundy 1]

I would not be going for 32 CH DVR

 

Leaves you in diffs if a DVR decides to die on you

 

16CH x 4 DVR's

Why not 16 four-channel DVRs then? Then you only stand to lose four channels at a time.

 

If you're that worried about it, keep a spare DVR on-hand that you can readily swap in should a DVR fail.

 

32-channel Dahua: $1500... two of them: $3000.

 

16-channel Dahua: $1000... four of them: $4000.

 

Add a spare 32, you're at $4500... add a spare 16 to the 4x16 layout, you're at $5000... either way, costs more for the same thing.

[jimmyj 0]

they currently have a pc based system but it had no name on it last I saw, they were rack mounted and I would have to go back to see the software name..

 

the cost seems about right for the two 32's for the Dahua ones, i dont know how good they are though

I'm not sure about the whole RAID thing..you kinda lost me on that. lol i guess I'm in the learning process in this...

they are looking to me to figure out what is best for them and keep them under 10g's including install, wiring, purchase of the new cameras etc. I normally do network cabling/home theater/ and am now getting into security cameras so I am the one running the cables. I just want to get them something good, i would hate to spend their money on something crappy. its important that its something they could rely on. so let me just say thanks again for this help your giving me here

 

I was just looking at the 3x systems.. they look nice, but where do they sell them? and are they in the price range?

[Soundy 1]

RAID - Redundant Array of Independent Disks. Different RAID levels refer to different methods of spreading data across multiple disks. RAID5 can be performed on three or more disks, where one disk's worth of space is used for "parity" information - basically data that's used to recover if one disk is lost: you swap the dead disk (most RAID boxes support hot-swapping disks so you don't need to shut down), and the system rebuilds the set. The catch is that you lose that space: three 2TB drives in RAID5 gives you 4TB available. RAID6 works the same way except it uses two disks for parity, so you need at least four disks, and any two can die without data loss. Four 2TB disks in RAID6 also gives you 4TB available.

 

Eight 2TB disks in RAID5 gives you 14TB total; with RAID6, you have 12TB total. But, you have that redundancy to protect against data loss. Most units can notify you if a disk is failing, so you can replace it before you have any data loss.

 

You do pay for that security (especially these days with the price of hard drives), so it depends on how concerned you are about losing information if a drive fails.

 

You'd need to contact 3xLogic about a local reseller, but I think MSRP of the rackmount 32-channel systems are in the $4000 range... so that's most of your budget there. Being PC-based systems though, it's easy to connect additional external storage.

 

The rest, it's really hard to say what it's going to cost until you start tearing things apart and finding out where the actual problems lie. Ideally, I'd start with pulling the DVRs out, disconnecting all the wires (including from the power supplies, making sure to note what voltage they're using if there are a mix of 12V and 24V power supplies), untangling it all, then reconnecting things to power, testing the incoming feeds, sorting out what cameras are where, and labeling everything. Then I'd take a floor plan of the site, mark up where the cameras are, number them in some sort of logical sequence, and reconnect them to the new systems in that order.

 

It's substantial labour and the systems are potentially offline for a couple of days while you get it all cleaned up, but it will save SO much hassle and headache later on as you add or upgrade cameras.

[Neutech 0]

I would not be going for 32 CH DVR

 

Leaves you in diffs if a DVR decides to die on you

 

16CH x 4 DVR's

Why not 16 four-channel DVRs then? Then you only stand to lose four channels at a time.

 

Very professional reply for someone trying to offer some sensible advice

....and no need for a "spare" DVR to be purchased if 16ch were used as there are 3 on site already, im sure if not at least 1 or 2 of these could be kept as backups

[Soundy 1]

Very professional reply for someone trying to offer some sensible advice

Then start by offering sensible advice. Read the first post:

 

i need either two 32 channel or one 60+ channel dvr(s) to replace the 3 16 channel rack mount ones they had

 

OP already stated they don't want three separate 16s, and they need to expand beyond the capabilities of three 16s.

 

....and no need for a "spare" DVR to be purchased if 16ch were used as there are 3 on site already, im sure if not at least 1 or 2 of these could be kept as backups

 

Your answer is right there:

 

one server is not working and the other doesn't stay functioning properly. only one of the three they have works properly.

 

So only one of three existing still works, and given that, there's no guarantee of the reliability of the third.

[jimmyj 0]

thanks for the explanation!

 

yea i agree, the system needs to be taken apart..

so I guess I'm going to look for a local retailer of the 3x systems .. and keep that dvr in mind..

if there is any other brands or companies you think are worth it let me know please.

they are rushing me to make a decision because of some recent theft they had but were not able to catch it :/

[tomcctv 190]

thanks for the explanation!

 

yea i agree, the system needs to be taken apart..

so I guess I'm going to look for a local retailer of the 3x systems .. and keep that dvr in mind..

if there is any other brands or companies you think are worth it let me know please.

they are rushing me to make a decision because of some recent theft they had but were not able to catch it :/

 

 

 

Hi jimmy. another to look at is the aver. with 60 cameras to watch the aver has 2 monitor outputs (use 1 monitor shows 32 cameras ... 2 monitors it auto splits to 16 a monitor) with full mouse control.

 

two 32 will give you 64 cameras and if you need to expand you just add a 4-6-8 or another 32 and the systems will talk to each other.

 

http://uk.surveillance.aver.com/product/hybrid-DVR-SA6832E-RACK

what sort of place are you protecting ???.

[jimmyj 0]

thanks tom I'll take a look at that system too.

its a food storage place, a very large one.

I'm heading over there now so i can take another look at what they have and get some more info...

[jimmyj 0]

so I took a better look today,

the system is pretty basic.. no name brand. not even on the software (runs on linux) is generic.

the system only had 500gb per 16ch unit.

they just want to be able to access it remotely and as well as mobile view.

they have existing cameras as well as going to add some new ones.. I'm hoping I can add some higher res cameras for some areas possibly some ptz cameras too.

 

I think they want the two 32's and want them to be able to link to each other too..

[graphicw 0]

Most professional retail systems that I have seen tend to use multiple 16 channel DVR's. They do not depend on any one box for all of their needs for fear of it going out. The reason for unused ports on power supplies could be the limits of the power supply as well. It is not uncommon to find cheaper CCTV power supplies that have 18 ports or better but only offer 12 amps of power. Many CCTV camers these days if you start dealing with PTZ and/or IR illumination will need at least an amp at 12 volts for each camera. When you start getting into retail cameras, the demands can be even greater. What model of cameras are in use? What Linux based CCTV software is in use right now? Most linux systems that I have seen without brand name tend to use Zoneminder, most of the branded ones are proprietory.

[Soundy 1]

It is not uncommon to find cheaper CCTV power supplies that have 18 ports or better but only offer 12 amps of power. Many CCTV camers these days if you start dealing with PTZ and/or IR illumination will need at least an amp at 12 volts for each camera. When you start getting into retail cameras, the demands can be even greater.

What is a "retail camera"?

 

Something like the CNB VCM-24VF is rated at one 2.2W power consumption - at 12VDC, that's barely 180mA. The Panasonic WV-CW504 domes are rated 3.4W, or 280mA@12VDC. This range is far more common for non-IR, non-PTZ cameras. You could hang 50 24VFs off a 10A power supply without coming close to its maximum output.

[SEANHAWG 1]

I always recommend running PTZ's off of their own PSU

[jennyjiang 0]

If you need 32 channel DVR.

I will recommend this kind DVR to you .

It is DAHUA 32 channel DVR .

Please check this link :

[ebay spam link removed]

Hoe you will like it .

[Soundy 1]

If you need 32 channel DVR.

I will recommend this kind DVR to you .

It is DAHUA 32 channel DVR .

Please check this link :

[ebay spam link removed]

Hoe you will like it .

Hmmm, interesting... "The 1st, 9th, 17th and 25th video channels can support max D1(4CIF) realtime recording and other channels can support CIF realtime recording."

 

 

Nice try though