THHN wire and RG6 cable in a single conduit...

[pekingduck08 0]

hello! newbie here..

 

i'm just curious if i can run a pair of thhn wires #14 together with (4) RG-6 cables in a single conduit.. 220 VAC will run on the thhn wire at a maximum distance of 100m.. is it ok?

 

thanks.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Absolutely not!

[buster74985 0]

You CAN but you definitely wont be happy with the results.

[the toss 0]

hello! newbie here..

 

i'm just curious if i can run a pair of thhn wires #14 together with (4) RG-6 cables in a single conduit.. 220 VAC will run on the thhn wire at a maximum distance of 100m.. is it ok?thanks.

 

Can you do it ? If you can get it in one end of the conduit & out the other end then yes you have done it.

should you do it ? No you shouldn't for a variety of reasons

are you allowed to do it ? I doubt that your cabling regulations would allow it.

 

A question from me - why do you want to do it ?

[pekingduck08 0]

i heard others doing it to save cost for conduits and they said that video quality isn't much affected..

[Soundy 1]

You WILL get interference running 220VAC and video together like that... how bad will depend on the amount of current.

 

Depending on where you live, this is probably against electrical codes.

[pekingduck08 0]

thanks for all the advices! i understand it now.. God bless!

 

till my next query..

[dmiller9 0]

Trick question guys.

 

If I have a 10A 24VAC power supply powering a camera using 2C/14AWG wiring can I run that cable in the same conduit as the data cable?

[Soundy 1]

Whether you MAY will depend on local electrical code... but you certainly CAN. Interference will depend on the size of field generated around the power wire, and that will be a direct factor of the voltage used *and* the current drawn by the load (current capacity of the power supply is irrelevant - could be a 1A supply, could be capable of drive 100A). A camera shouldn't draw anywhere near enough current to create a large enough field to cause a problem.

[dmiller9 0]

Whether you MAY will depend on local electrical code... but you certainly CAN. Interference will depend on the size of field generated around the power wire, and that will be a direct factor of the voltage used *and* the current drawn by the load (current capacity of the power supply is irrelevant - could be a 1A supply, could be capable of drive 100A). A camera shouldn't draw anywhere near enough current to create a large enough field to cause a problem.

 

And thats where you are wrong. In both Canada and the USA that would be illegal. You can only mix Class 2 low voltage with data cableing. The above mentioned power supply is not Class2 because or the current carry ability You would have to fuse the output of the power supply to limit the current output. Like I said this was a trick question and not many people know about this rule. The other thing you are mistake about is the reason for this rule has nothing to do with interfearance. It has everything to do with safety. Just like mixing 120V with data cableing its all about safety not interfearance.

 

This is a couple importatant sections copied from the CEC.

 

"16-012 Circuits in communication cables

(1) Class 1 circuits shall not be run in the same cable with communication circuits.

(2) Class 2 remote control and signal circuits or their parts that use conductors in a cable assembly with other

conductors forming parts of communication circuits are, for the purpose of this Code, deemed to be

communication circuits and shall conform to the applicable Rules of Section 60."

 

 

This is the defention of a Class 2 circuit. If it doesn't meet these requirements then it can not be ran in the same conduit as a data cable.

 

"16-200 Limitations of Class 2 circuits (see Appendix B)

(1) Class 2 circuits, depending upon the voltage, shall have the current limited as follows:

(a) 0 to 20 V — circuits in which the open-circuit voltage does not exceed 20 V shall have overcurrent

protection rated at not more than 5 A, except that overcurrent protection shall not be required where

the current is supplied from

(i) primary batteries that under short-circuit will not supply a current exceeding 7.5 A after 1 min;

(ii) a Class 2 circuit transformer;

(iii) a device having characteristics that will limit the current under

(iv) a device having a Class 2 output;

(b) Over 20 V but not exceeding 30 V — circuits in which the open-circuit voltage exceeds 20 V but

does not exceed 30 V shall have an overcurrent protection rating not exceeding 100/V amperes,

where V is the open-circuit voltage, except that the overcurrent protection shall not be required

where the current is supplied from

(i) primary batteries that under short-circuit will not supply a current exceeding 5 A after 1 min;

(ii) a Class 2 circuit transformer;

(iii) a device having characteristics that will limit the current under normal operating conditions or

under fault conditions to a value not exceeding 100/V amperes, where V is the open-circuit

voltage; or

(iv) a device having a Class 2 output;

© Over 30 V but not exceeding 60 V — circuits in which the open-circuit voltage exceeds 30 V but

does not exceed 60 V shall have an overcurrent protection rating not exceeding 100/V amperes,

where V is the open-circuit voltage, except that the overcurrent protection shall not be required

where the current is supplied from

(i) a Class 2 circuit transformer; or

(ii) a device having characteristics that will limit the current under normal operating conditions or

under fault conditions to a value not exceeding 100/V amperes, where V is the open-circuit

voltage;

(d) Over 60 V but not exceeding 150 V — circuits in which the open-circuit voltage exceeds 60 V

but does not exceed 150 V shall have an overcurrent protection rating not exceeding 100/V

amperes, where V is the open-circuit voltage, and in addition shall be equipped with current-limiting

means other than overcurrent protection that will limit the current, either under normal operating

conditions or under fault conditions, to a value not exceeding 100/V amperes, where V is the opencircuit

voltage.

(2) A device having energy-limiting characteristics may consist of a series resistor of suitable rating or other

similar device.

(3) A Class 2 power supply shall not be connected in series or parallel with another Class 2 power source."

[Soundy 1]

There is nothing incorrect in my reply based on the info inbyour question.

[dmiller9 0]

There is nothing incorrect in my reply based on the info inbyour question.

 

I guess I don't know what you are trying to say in the your reply then.

[tomcctv 190]

There is nothing incorrect in my reply based on the info inbyour question.

 

I guess I don't know what you are trying to say in the your reply then.

 

 

dmiller9. take a read though your own findings and you will see where YOU have got it wrong. you have over looked a simple mistake.

[hardwired 0]

It would depend if the transformer was rated as "class 2", or not, but since he mentions a output of 10A/24VAC, which would be 240VA, it probably wouldn't be, and he doesn't mention a fuse or other current limiting device that would be required to be in compliance.

[Soundy 1]

Whether you MAY will depend on local electrical code... but you certainly CAN. Interference will depend on the size of field generated around the power wire, and that will be a direct factor of the voltage used *and* the current drawn by the load (current capacity of the power supply is irrelevant - could be a 1A supply, could be capable of drive 100A). A camera shouldn't draw anywhere near enough current to create a large enough field to cause a problem.

 

And thats where you are wrong.

Howso? I said it "MAY" depend on the electrical code. Not everywhere follows the same rules as North America.

 

The above mentioned power supply is not Class2 because or the current carry ability You would have to fuse the output of the power supply to limit the current output

.

Your post said nothing about whether or not the power supply output was fused... so again, it MAY depend on the electrical code.

 

Like I said this was a trick question

Yes, apparently you tricked yourself with it

 

The other thing you are mistake about is the reason for this rule has nothing to do with interfearance.

Nobody ever claimed it did. You're taking two separate statements I made and putting them together.

 

1. Whether you MAY do this depends on local electrical code: true and accurate.

 

2. You most certainly CAN do it without fear of interference: true and accurate.

[dmiller9 0]

It would depend if the transformer was rated as "class 2", or not, but since he mentions a output of 10A/24VAC, which would be 240VA, it probably wouldn't be, and he doesn't mention a fuse or other current limiting device that would be required to be in compliance.

 

Thanks. An integrator that knows his stuff. Props to you.

[dmiller9 0]

There is nothing incorrect in my reply based on the info inbyour question.

 

I guess I don't know what you are trying to say in the your reply then.

 

 

dmiller9. take a read though your own findings and you will see where YOU have got it wrong. you have over looked a simple mistake.

 

 

What did I get wrong?

[tomcctv 190]

What did I get wrong?

 

 

it depends how you interpret your trick question. also like soundy says its differant in state codes.

 

If I have a 10A 24VAC power supply powering a camera using 2C/14AWG wiring can I run that cable in the same conduit as the data cable?

 

 

which is not the same as your answer

 

(1) Class 1 circuits shall not be run in the same cable with communication circuits.

 

 

which is power and data in the same cable not data and power (24v) seperate in the same conduit

[dmiller9 0]

What did I get wrong?

 

 

it depends how you interpret your trick question. also like soundy says its differant in state codes.

 

If I have a 10A 24VAC power supply powering a camera using 2C/14AWG wiring can I run that cable in the same conduit as the data cable?

 

 

which is not the same as your answer

 

(1) Class 1 circuits shall not be run in the same cable with communication circuits.

 

 

which is power and data in the same cable not data and power (24v) seperate in the same conduit

 

 

Your right. Sorry this is the correct section of the code.

 

16-212 Separation of Class 2 circuit conductors from other circuits

(1) Conductors of Class 2 circuits shall be separated at least 50 mm from insulated conductors of electric

lighting, power, or Class 1 circuits operating at 300 V or less, and shall be separated at least 600 mm from

any insulated conductors of electric lighting, power, or Class 1 circuits operating at more than 300 V, unless

for both conditions effective separation is afforded by use of

(a) metal raceways for the Class 2 circuits or for the electric lighting, power, and Class 1 circuits subject

to the metal raceway being bonded to ground;

(b) metal-sheathed or armoured cable for the electric lighting, power, and Class 1 circuit conductors

subject to the sheath or armour being bonded to ground;

© non-metallic-sheathed cable for the electric lighting, power, and Class 1 circuits operating at 300 V

or less; or

(d) non-metallic conduit, electrical non-metallic tubing, insulated tubing, or equivalent, in addition to

the insulation on the Class 2 circuit conductors or the electric lighting, power, and Class 1 circuit

conductors.

(2) Where the electric lighting or power conductors are bare, all Class 2 circuit conductors in the same room

or space shall be enclosed in a metal raceway that is bonded to ground, and no opening, such as an outlet

box, shall be permitted to be located within 2 m of the bare conductors if up to and including 15 kV or

within 3 m of bare conductors above 15 kV.

(3) Unless the conductors of the Class 2 circuits are separated from the conductors of electric lighting, power,

and Class 1 circuits by an acceptable barrier, the conductors in Class 2 circuits shall not be placed in any

raceway, compartment, outlet box, junction box, or similar fitting with the conductors of electric lighting,

power, or Class 1 circuits.

(4) Subrule (3) shall not apply where the conductors of a power circuit are in the raceway, compartment, outlet

box, junction box, or similar fitting for the sole purpose of supplying power to the Class 2 circuits, and all

conductors are insulated for the maximum voltage of any conductor in the enclosure, cable, or raceway,

except that no Class 2 conductor installed in a raceway, compartment, outlet box, junction box, or similar

fitting with such conductors of a power circuit shall show a green-coloured insulation, unless such Class 2

conductor is completely contained within a sheathed

[Soundy 1]

(1) Class 1 circuits shall not be run in the same cable with communication circuits.

 

 

which is power and data in the same cable not data and power (24v) seperate in the same conduit

Oh, good catch, I missed that too: same cable =/= same conduit.

[ssmith10pn 0]

I didn't know about the 300v threshold. So if the high voltage is 480 instead of 220 it's a whole different ball game.

[Soundy 1]

I didn't know about the 300v threshold. So if the high voltage is 480 instead of 220 it's a whole different ball game.

Well, again, check your local electrical codes - dmiller9 is quoting from the Canadian Electrical Code.