Questions from a newbie. Asking for advice (Oh no not again)

[Mr.J 0]

I'm sure lots on this forum have a short fuze for newbies asking the same questions over and over again so I'll start by saying I have read around the forum a fair bit a short while ago so I am not completely ignorant.

 

My dream system was originally going to be a system of IR pinhole cameras motion activated set up around the house and garden viewable up to 10m but after reading around I found that a good camera with a clear picture would in fact cost me a lot more than I could afford. Right now I'll be settling for less, just need some advice on how to set up my system.

 

I'm looking to set myself up a security system (Audio/video) around the house and play with it a little but there are two very important aspects I can't get wrong. I want none of the cameras to be visible and the system needs to use the minimum amount of wattage possible.

 

I'm going to be doing all the wiring and setting up myself so I can learn along the way and cut costs.

 

What I intend to have is an idle system which runs on motion detectors so if movement isn't noticed the system is using as little energy as possible, when the system activates I need it to record for a number of minutes (DVR) then go back into sleep/idle. I think I may settle for two hidden IR cameras which can have good clear images and one more hidden pinhole camera at the front door. I also want listening devices so I can transfer the sound inside and know what is being said outside.

 

The question I have is how many watts do these electronics use? It's very hard to find information on how much it would take to constantly run an idle system.

 

I'm sure cameras and motion detectors would use very little energy and the DVR would be the real energy juicer.

 

By the way my budget it about $1000 but I'm sure the boss will keep paying me as long as I'm employed so I can add to it.

 

Any advice would be a great help.

 

Regards, Mr. J

[Warren 0]

My experience in the security industry has been more operational that technical.

I hope this helps though.

If you are installing an alarm system, where are you going to put your beams or passives? (Take note of anything that could cause a false alarm).

Now you start with your CCTV system.

When planning the structure of your cameras take note of how nature will affect them during different times of the day, night & year e.g. wind and sun & how to prevent malicious damage.

My advice would be to have visible cameras as well as covert cameras. (I have heard of cases where criminals have shot cameras with paint balls).

 

A few pointers to take note of

When you are planning your system always look at it from a pro active as well as a reactive point of view.

Your first objective is to prevent an intrusion.

Should that fail try & lure the perpetrator to where you can get a nice clear picture of him which will be admissible in court.

Remember your system is mechanical & parts can breakdown, always try & have a plan in place should that happen. E.g. if you are planning to have 8 cameras, instead of buying one 8 channel DVR, buy two four channel DVRs.

[shockwave199 0]

Unless I'm mistaken, no system goes to sleep and powers up and down. If you have a dvr, it will be on all the time. Cameras hooked up to it will be powered on all the time. You will not cut energy costs by using motion recording. Recording doesn't use more energy than not recording anything. At least I don't think so. Motion recording will spare you hard drive space though, so it is a good thing regardless tomotion record. Where you'll save some energy is getting good low light cameras witout IR. At night when IR comes on in the cameras- that will increase energy consumtion. Low light cameras with perhaps night light fixtures in outlets around the house will provide low cost adequit lighting to support low light non-IR cameras. Or in lamps, using low wattage eco bulbs can help too. How much electricity will a dvr and four cameras always on use? I guess it depends on the gear, but it's not much. I'd be surprised if it's equal to or more than 100 watt bulb being on all the time. Maybe even a 50 watt bulb- but I'm guessing. It's not high wattage to have even an eight channel system up all the time. Far as covert gear- that's somebody elses recs. I don't know. Careful with recording covert audio- it may be against the law unless you post the fact you're doing it.

[Mr.J 0]

Thanks for the help guys, has answered a few questions and gave me a better incite into the system.

 

As for wattage, 50 watts is 1200 per day. What I'm now considering is running everything except the IR LED's until motion is detected, I have found an article which rates a DVR at 10 watts. Two good quality security cameras which will have a clear enough picture at 10 meters would be nice but power usage is unknown. I did ask a sales person at a flea market who told me his camera used 5 watts although the more powerful the camera the more power it would use? As for motion detectors maybe a laser motion sensor would be better as it would not accidentally trip as often, I can also set these at heights which wildlife can't set off.

 

The next step down to conserve energy is an IR digital still camera but my disadvantage there would be no active video can be hooked up to a real time CCTV screen.

 

I will check my federal and state laws before I do this in case it is illegal. Thanks for the advice.

 

EDIT: Found a security website which lists one of their security cameras at 3.3 watts including LED's

 

http://www.ozspy.com.au/products/14-Commercial-CCTV-Cameras/200-Colour-Outdoor-IR-Camera

 

It appears I didn't look hard enough the first time

[tomcctv 190]

conserve energy

 

 

if your boss is having problems with such a small amount of power used. then just walk away from the job.

 

 

shockwave199. is right in motion only is not going to save you anything. if you are looking for a unit where the H/drive will go to sleep till your unit detects motion then you have to take into account startup time of HDrive.

at which point you will have missed it.

 

 

$1000 budget ....... for how many cameras ??

[Mr.J 0]

if your boss is having problems with such a small amount of power used. then just walk away from the job.

 

Might have given the wrong impression there, this is a personal residential system for me to play with, but my boss pays my wage

 

$1000 budget ....... for how many cameras ??

 

Considering three at the moment, but only two which are high quality, the last will probably be a close range pinhole camera for the front door.

[Warren 0]

Maybe you misunderstood me.

No CCTV system will last forever.

At some stage will break e.g. a fuse can blow, your power supply can burn out, and a camera could get water damage.

When this happens you want to be prepared.

If you have only got one DVR running you whole system & your DVR spots functioning & you can’t fix it immediately you don’t have a security system.

If you have two DVRs each carrying half your cameras you can still cover some of your property until you can have it repaired or replaced.

“Murphy’s law” Something usually packs up when there aren’t any shops open.

Shockwave

I agree with you that continuous play is always better but it is not always possible.

You might have to leave home for a few days to attend to an emergency.

Have you got a UPS as a power back up?

Is your hard drive big enough to hold that amount of data?

If you power is cut will it be able to run your system until you return or someone who is looking after your premises comes around & detects that there is a problem?

Looking at Mr J’s situation he has got to make a choice between quantity & quality.

I would rather choose quality, quantity cam come later

[Soundy 1]

Two DVRs will also draw nearly twice as much power as one, regardless of the number of channels. Get over the two-DVR fixation already - in 8+ years in the business, I've NEVER seen a site that used multiple small-capacity DVRs where a single unit would suffice. It's more expensive, takes up more room, and is a logistical pain in the arse to deal with.

 

OP, have you considered something based on game or trail cameras? These are typically battery-powered, self-contained camera/recorder units. They're not small, but you may be able to disassemble them and fit them into other enclosures that will suit your needs. They typically record onto flash media, such as an SD card, that you can then take to your computer for playback.

 

Keep in mind a "pinhole" camera is typically just a standard board camera with a specific type of lens, so if an actual "pinhole" installation is required, such cameras could have their lenses replaced (there are even pinhole lenses available for larger C/CS-lensmount cameras). I've done a number of covert installs that didn't require a pinhole lens, though - just takes some creativity. Cameras can be hidden inside PIR sensors, smoke detectors, clocks, light fixtures, radios, all manner of common objects.

[shockwave199 0]

Two DVRs will also draw nearly twice as much power as one, regardless of the number of channels. Get over the two-DVR fixation already - in 8+ years in the business, I've NEVER seen a site that used multiple small-capacity DVRs where a single unit would suffice. It's more expensive, takes up more room, and is a logistical pain in the arse to deal with.

I agree. If the dvr failing is that much of a concern, pick up another one for backup if you need it and keep it off line. I would never put two 4 channel dvr's in line just to get 8 channels for redundancy. What do you do then, put two cameras in each position, side by side, in case the first dvr goes down? Where does that all end? Silly to install from that perspective, imo. If you want, put the dvr on a UPS if it makes you feel better that in quick power interruptions, the dvr at least remains powered up without interruption. This is a residential install, not fort knox, fas as I can tell. It's good to keep in mind that for all we do, for all the effort, if someone wants to break in- they WILL get in. They can take any number of simple measures to do so and make it tough to get caught, such as hoodies, masks, spray paint over the camera lens, smashing the cameras, or cutting the wires. Any of those launching an email to us? LOL-please. Getting in/out within 5 minutes is often enough time to score big and not get caught. People who do this stuff didn't just start that life yesterday- they know what they're doing. You can't cover all contingencies, in most residential applications. An alarm system and cameras- neither one will actually stop a problem if you're good at what you do....crime. Smash, grab, out- that's all it is no matter what the obstical. You want to spend some WELL worth it money before anything? Take a look at your windows and doors and their LOCKS. That's a good place to start and spend good money to improve. So we do our best. If it makes us sleep better at night, great. If it's a fun hobby, great too. But take a look at the nightly news and see how much surveillance footage there is, good and bad- and most times, BAD. Did it stop the problem. No, but it may help catch up to the perp after the fact.

 

To the OP, I think you're obsessing over power used. Not sure why. Changing as little as two or three bulbs around the house to eco bulbs will probably make the added energy of a cctv system a wash. Or changing just one other wasteful energy habit would make room for a cctv systems power usage. Not really sure why the obsession about such a low cost thing as cctv. If it's that much of a concern, a pair of binoculars and a gun and sleepless nights on guard won't cost a cent in extra power usage- know what I mean? Move onto planning your system and accept a small increase in energy used. That's the price of doing business in this thing of ours.

[Soundy 1]

Two DVRs will also draw nearly twice as much power as one, regardless of the number of channels. Get over the two-DVR fixation already - in 8+ years in the business, I've NEVER seen a site that used multiple small-capacity DVRs where a single unit would suffice. It's more expensive, takes up more room, and is a logistical pain in the arse to deal with.

I agree. If the dvr failing is that much of a concern, pick up another one for backup if you need it and keep it off line.

For that matter, don't use cheap junk DVRs in the first place. Get something that will last, and don't worry about it.

 

To the OP, I think you're obsessing over power used. Not sure why. Changing as little as two or three bulbs around the house to eco bulbs will probably make the added energy of a cctv system a wash. Or changing just one other wasteful energy habit would make room for a cctv systems power usage.

This is a good point. If we knew why energy consumption was such a big deal, it would be easier to offer solutions or alternatives. OP says this is for a "this is a personal residential system for me to play with" - curious as to why cameras being completely covert is a big deal as well, rather than just low-profile or inconspicuous?

[MaxIcon 0]

I've been tracking IP system power requirements recently, just because I like to measure stuff, so here are some typical numbers.

 

I've found most of my 1-5MP cams run 3-6W without the IR on, and IR adds another 2-3W, depending. Newer cameras typically run lower power than older, but that's not a hard and fast rule.

 

My main NVR PC pulls about 90W (Core i3, 2TB HD, mini-ITX, running about 70% CPU utilization), and the monitors I've tried all run about 30W when on. I have a couple of old laptops I'm using as remote viewers, and they pull 30-60W, depending. My plan with those is to have them running full time with the display disabled, driving an external monitor that's turned off when no one's there or at night. When I want to see what's up, I turn on the monitor for fast response.

 

I can post more specific cam power numbers later, when I'm near my notes, and can grab some analog cam readings as well.

 

I've also considered the backup recording plan, since PCs aren't as reliable as the dedicated NVRs I ran for years, and the current plan is to go with two separate systems for redundancy. This is easy with NVRs, and since each is different, the likelihood of both failing at the same time is low. Everything's on a UPS, including the POE switch, which adds more power use, of course.