Advice between recommended cameras.

[Supernaut 0]

The purchase choice of camera has been a long running argument between my lady and I. So I hope I can learn something new here. In asking before here on the forum, these camera's were suggested to me.

 

This one is rated to -40 degrees C.

http://www.worldeyecam.com/store/cnb-vcm-24vfh-cnb-1-3-sony-super-had-ccd-ii-monalisa-600tvl-day-night-2.8-10.5mm-lens-dual-voltage-w-heater.html

 

http://www.gadspot.com/p-262-gs4006cf.aspx

 

And then this was found

 

http://lorexstore.lorextechnology.com/pdfs/DCD210533-Specs_R3.pdf

 

These cameras come as part of this package which seems like a good deal if the original price isn't just a bunch of crap.

http://lorexstore.lorextechnology.com/product.aspx?id=1746&utm_source=20OFFMarch&utm_medium=email&utm_term=spring&utm_content=special&utm_campaign=20OFFMarch

 

 

My questions being. Any thoughts on cameras listed? I notice that if a camera is not heated they usually seem to have a cold rating of -10 degrees Celsius. How important is it that they camera is heated? It can get down to -30 for a couple weeks of the year here. What happens when the camera gets too cold? Does it just stop functioning until it warms or freezes over? Any thoughts on Lorex or the dvr that comes with that package in particular?

 

Also I can't seem to usually find viewing angle on most cameras. Is there an range that's fairly typical?

 

Insight could finally get me some progress here.

[Soundy 1]

The specs on those Lorex cameras don't come close to the CNBs.

 

They're lower TVL, for one (I know we say that the higher TVLs aren't really important, but still...)

 

They're IP65 vs IP66 for the CNB (lower protection against direct water)

 

The Lorex isn't a "true day/night" camera and as such its low-light specs fall FAR short: it lists a minimum of 0.3 lux in color vs. the CNB's 0.05 lux, and 0.1 lux in B&W vs 0.005 lux for the CNB. It list 0.002 lux with SENS-UP, but that's not a useful spec, as "SENS-UP" is just a fancy name for slow shutter, which will result in motion blur with even the smallest movement. In short: its low-light performance is abysmal.

 

Also I can't seem to usually find viewing angle on most cameras. Is there an range that's fairly typical?

Viewing angle is indicated by the lens focal length. 2.8mm on a 1/3" sensor will give you close to 90 degrees. The CNB has a 1/3" sensor; the Lorex doesn't list the sensor size at all, so it's hard to compare, but assuming a 1/3" sensor, the CNB gives you a range of about 82 to 25 degrees, while the Lorex gives you 66 to 33 degrees (handy little angle calculator here: http://www.sweeting.org/mark/lenses/cctv.php).

 

The DVR *says* it supports D1 recording, but the specs only state "real time" at CIF resolutions; there's nothing there that says what framerate you'll get at D1, or whether all the channels do D1 or only one or two. Frankly, between the DVR and the cameras, the lack of a number of important specs would be a red flag right there.

 

Think of it this way: if CCTV equipment runs the range between a Kia and a Ferrari, Lorex would be a rusty broken bicycle laying in a ditch.

[jtetterton 0]

Think of it this way: if CCTV equipment runs the range between a Kia and a Ferrari, Lorex would be a rusty broken bicycle laying in a ditch.

 

Love it, lmao!

[shockwave199 0]

Where are you? Does it seriously get super cold and remain that cold day and night for extended periods of time? If it does, you may want to consider that cnb with the heater. Here in NY, we get into the teens [F] frequently at night but extended periods of 20f or lower aren't common. It happens, but usually our temps fluxuate higher within a week or so. And this year was flat out warm and snowless the entire winter- whoo hoo! So my unheated gadspots do just fine. But if you don't have extended periods of bone chilling cold, my guess is this cnb would do fine for you and save some coinage too-

 

CNB VCM-24VF

 

In all the reading I've done here, I haven't read one case of a camera crapping out from cold temps. I think even unheated ones can take a heap of cold, is my guess.

[Soundy 1]

Electronics in these cameras do generate heat on their own, and being sealed in a dome like that, will stay fairly warm when operating. When a camera has a heater, it's usually to keep the glass clear of condensation, not to keep the entire assembly warmer. The regular non-heated CNB's should be fine.

[Supernaut 0]

This information has been most helpful.

 

Now, I don't have a problem with ordering from a reputable American online store. However, my old lady is hell bent on buying from a Canadian dealer in belief that there will be some major problems with border crossing during purchase or possible return. Yeah I know its unfounded but I might as well tell it to our birds.

 

Searching around with google finding CNB cameras in Canada is not easy, in particular the vcm-24vfh. Does anyone know of a Canadian source for that particular camera? Thank you.

[Soundy 1]

We normally get our CNBs from a small distributor here in Maple Ridge (far-flung burb of Vancouver). Couldn't tell you who else carries them north of the 49th - maybe contact CNB and ask them about authorized resellers.

 

BTW, if you REALLY INSIST on the heater, you can always get that as a separate module and install it yourself. I've only ever done it once, and that was for cameras we installed in a very damp November close to the ocean, so the air was really moist and caused condensation in the domes.

[Supernaut 0]

Where are you? Does it seriously get super cold and remain that cold day and night for extended periods of time? If it does, you may want to consider that cnb with the heater. Here in NY, we get into the teens [F] frequently at night but extended periods of 20f or lower aren't common. It happens, but usually our temps fluxuate higher within a week or so. And this year was flat out warm and snowless the entire winter- whoo hoo! So my unheated gadspots do just fine. But if you don't have extended periods of bone chilling cold, my guess is this cnb would do fine for you and save some coinage too-

 

CNB VCM-24VF

 

In all the reading I've done here, I haven't read one case of a camera crapping out from cold temps. I think even unheated ones can take a heap of cold, is my guess.

 

 

Ah, I seemed to have missed this post. I live near Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. During a winter cold snap it seriously can go down to -30 and stay that way day and night for a couple weeks, and on some rare occasions hit -40 over night. No joke. It is usually only 2-3 weeks however, the rest of the time it will be -10c to -20c (14F to-4F) in most of the winter. This past winter was abnormally warm however. It only got ridiculously cold for one week.

[ak357 0]

This information has been most helpful.

 

Now, I don't have a problem with ordering from a reputable American online store. However, my old lady is hell bent on buying from a Canadian dealer in belief that there will be some major problems with border crossing during purchase or possible return. Yeah I know its unfounded but I might as well tell it to our birds.

 

Searching around with google finding CNB cameras in Canada is not easy, in particular the vcm-24vfh. Does anyone know of a Canadian source for that particular camera? Thank you.

 

 

I am in Edmonton

[groovyman 0]

Whenever I look to buy a product I always like to contact the manufacturer and ask for a list of authorized distributors/resellers. I never had a problem buying from a company the manufacturer recommends.

 

In the case of CNB, I sent them an email one day and received a call within the hour from an authorized distributor. I've been buying from that distributor for the last 2 years. So, send CNB an email asking where their product can be purchased in Canada - they'll get back to you.

[Supernaut 0]

Whenever I look to buy a product I always like to contact the manufacturer and ask for a list of authorized distributors/resellers. I never had a problem buying from a company the manufacturer recommends.

 

In the case of CNB, I sent them an email one day and received a call within the hour from an authorized distributor. I've been buying from that distributor for the last 2 years. So, send CNB an email asking where their product can be purchased in Canada - they'll get back to you.

 

 

I emailed CNB USA on thursday night and am still waiting replay. If I have no response on monday I'll probably phone them or something.

 

In the mean time I found this good price. Has anyone dealt with this supplier before?

 

http://www.supplycctv.com/vcm-24vfh.html

[groovyman 0]

supplycctv.com is on CNB's list of unauthorized resellers

http://www.cnbusa.com/en/html/partner/unauthorizedreseller.php

[Soundy 1]

Forget them all - Cisco "Flip" cams and USB webcams are all you need. They're better than "real" CCTV cameras in every respect and they'll cost you <$100 each. Problem solved, case closed, end of story, let's all just go home. Time for me to take up that career in underwater basket weaving.

[tomcctv 190]

Post subject: Advice between recommended cameras.

 

 

good advice on camera make. also some very good advice on where to buy from. i know you have a problem buying outside of canada. >>> but is the link you posted to buy not in USA anyway ???.

[Soundy 1]

Now, I don't have a problem with ordering from a reputable American online store. However, my old lady is hell bent on buying from a Canadian dealer in belief that there will be some major problems with border crossing during purchase or possible return. Yeah I know its unfounded but I might as well tell it to our birds.

Send her in here, we'll straighten her out

 

I don't know what sort of problem she's expecting... you tell him what you want, you give him some money, and a few days later the brown UPS truck rolls up (with a very cute driver, in my case) and drops off your new toys. Doesn't get much easier - not like you have to drive across the border yourself.

 

Maybe she's worried about the cute UPS drivers?

[Supernaut 0]

Whenever I look to buy a product I always like to contact the manufacturer and ask for a list of authorized distributors/resellers. I never had a problem buying from a company the manufacturer recommends.

 

In the case of CNB, I sent them an email one day and received a call within the hour from an authorized distributor. I've been buying from that distributor for the last 2 years. So, send CNB an email asking where their product can be purchased in Canada - they'll get back to you.

 

 

I emailed CNB USA on thursday night and am still waiting replay. If I have no response on monday I'll probably phone them or something.

 

In the mean time I found this good price. Has anyone dealt with this supplier before?

 

http://www.supplycctv.com/vcm-24vfh.html

 

 

I know that location is outside Canada. That's just on a part of my not caring and I think she's starting to give up on buying in Canada. I know what is recommended but they don't appear to sell the heated model of that camera which is a problem and why I'm still looking elsewhere.

 

And what does she think is going to happen when ordering outside the country? I don't know. It just seems to be a female requirement to make things 10x more difficult than they have to be by any rational reason.

 

What if it gets lost at the border?

What if it gets charged at huge tax at customs?

What if you can't return it because its outside of the country?

What if you get taxed twice because you have to return it?

What if aliens come down from space and turn the oceans into ketchup?

 

... And so on and so forth....

[Soundy 1]

I think you're over-estimating the importance of having the heater, personally. Remember, its intention is to keep the dome clear of condensation, not to warm the camera's ****les. The camera's electronics generate plenty of heat on their own, most of which is being contained inside the housing.

 

And like I say, if it comes down to needing it later, the heater module can always be purchased separately and added in - two screws, and plug it into the main board.

[Supernaut 0]

I think you're over-estimating the importance of having the heater, personally. Remember, its intention is to keep the dome clear of condensation, not to warm the camera's ****les. The camera's electronics generate plenty of heat on their own, most of which is being contained inside the housing.

 

And like I say, if it comes down to needing it later, the heater module can always be purchased separately and added in - two screws, and plug it into the main board.

 

Interesting. Are there any extreme cold users here that could testify to that? How much do the heaters usually cost to buy separate? It might be a way to same some cash if heaters are not needed.

[Soundy 1]

No idea what the cost was for the ones we upgraded, but I don't think it was that much to get them separately.

[Supernaut 0]

Another further question on these types of cameras. When in night vision mode, do they simply amplify existing light or produce infra red light or something? I once tried to aim a infrared camera out a window and just got a massive reflection back. Is mounting one of these indoors looking out a window a realistic idea?

 

Still no response from CNB USA after 2 attempts. Not too happy with the service there. Maybe I'll try their world site and see if I get some action.

[jtetterton 0]

Did you contact the supplier in Edmonton that I pm'ed to you?

 

The vcm24vf does not have built in infrared lighting. It uses the Monalisa chipset and has a removable infrared cut filter. It switches to black and white and the filter slides out of the way when the illumination drops past a certain point.

 

You can used external IR illuminators for extra light at night. Pointing an IR illuminator out a window will simply reflect and make itself useless. If you must, mount the IR illuminator outside and the camera inside.

[Supernaut 0]

I was calling around suppliers in the area today and while none specifically sell CNB they told me they could order it. One supplier however was interesting to talk to as he tried to sell his own product. He offered this Speco model with claims that it is far superior to the CNB.

 

http://www.specotech.com/media/resource_files/1f2c7598ca795a72723ef48e690176c3___HINT13D7G_spec.pdf

 

While the specs to look impressive (at least to my novice eye), I think the cost and difficulty to obtain (unless you want to pay retail price) would make it probably not worth my while. And by difficulty to obtain, I put that model number into google and come up with a mere 9 results. He says its $198 from his supplier and he retails it for "nearly $300." Also he says while it doesn't have a heater its rated to -20F and he uses it at his own home and there is never a problem with extreme cold. Also claims they are excellent quality with 5 year warranty and he's never had a call out to replace one.

 

I'm not a fool and I know he's got his own spin on it. He talks of the CNB like its the rusted out bicycle in the ditch someone previously mentioned. He also said that when you order them online (the CNB I mentioned) he says you can figure double the price by the time you receive it. I can't see that happening especially when some sellers offer free shipping over a certain price.

 

I see American retailers that have the CNB I'm interested in and they have their own certifications and such. I think I'll just find the best price and roll the dice. CNB itself (both USA site and global site) will not respond to my email. This seems a frustrating experience overall. I haven't even began to tackle the issue of "what DVR to use" yet. A whole new can of worms that may be.

 

Any thoughts on Speco and that model in particular?

[jtetterton 0]

I've got a speco intensifier installed at my firehouse. It's an interior cam and it's less than spectacular. They were retailing for around 160, he sold me one for 130.

 

I prefer the cnb with the Monalisa over the speco intensifier.

 

Jason

[Soundy 1]

That Speco camera is NOT a true-day/night like the CNB. The *real* minimum lux specs (0.03) is similar the CNB's in color mode, but in night mode the CNB is far superior. The "Intensifier" feature is just their version of SENS-UP or DSS (Digital Slow Shutter), meaning to get that low-light picture, even a snail's movement will be blurred. It's also a fixed lens, where the CNB is a 2.8-10.5. All in all, it's really NOT a better camera, especially not if it goes at or near the same price.

 

When in night vision mode, do they simply amplify existing light or produce infra red light or something?

Different cameras do different things. Some, like the Speco, slow the shutter down to allow more light, but that leads to more motion blur. Some have their own low-light processing, like the CNB's Monalisa chip. Any "true day/night" camera will benefit at night as the IR cut filter moves aside to allow more ambient IR light in.

 

I once tried to aim a infrared camera out a window and just got a massive reflection back. Is mounting one of these indoors looking out a window a realistic idea?

It's NEVER recommended to aim a camera through the window, IR or not - the same way the IR reflected back for you, any visible light in the room will as well. At night you'll get reflections of objects in the room (think of how a window in a bright room looks like a mirror at night even to the naked eye).

 

This seems a frustrating experience overall. I haven't even began to tackle the issue of "what DVR to use" yet. A whole new can of worms that may be.

 

Dude, for real... save yourself the frustration, tell the wife to stay out of the way.

[groovyman 0]

CNB itself (both USA site and global site) will not respond to my email. This seems a frustrating experience overall.

Wow, completely opposite from my experience. Maybe try contacting a Regional Sales Manager from here: http://www.cnbusa.com/en/html/support/purchase.php