Domestic vs "Prosumer" vs professional systems

[Steven_W 0]

Hi all I have been installing fairly basic 4 channel or 8 channel complete CCTV kits (mainly from Maplins) for a couple of years, only using the cables supplied within the kit (thin joint video & power cables)

 

I have stepped up a bit now and I'm in the middle ground between domestic and professional and in some cases a mix of 2.

 

Yesterday I was installing 8 420 TVL Sony CCD cams (4 bullet, 4 domes) but forgot to buy additional cable. The DVR came with cables to 4 cameras, I bought an additional 4 off eBay. As I was caught short for cable I used my professional siamese RG59 plus power cable, meaning I had to mix the 2.

 

I didn't have any spares on the van and had to joint cables rather than properly terminate them... this worked OK but ended up just not feeling right as I had heavy duty pro cables mixed with thin domestic stuff... however, no noticeable difference in quality!

 

So, the point of this post, is that obviously it's all about profit margin on installations and there are many cowboy installers doing cheap gear off eBay with 6 cameras installed for £500. I won't work for this because of the quality of the products and the issues with returning faulty products.

 

I have used Maplins for complete CCTV kits but now feel I should up my prices and use higher quality "Prosumer" or professional products.

 

So how do you guys feel about the basic 420 TVL kits versus a mix if the 2 versus pro level products? The job I did yesterday would be double the price if I used pro products, where's a comfortable mix of the 2?

 

Thanks all!

[shockwave199 0]

So, the point of this post, is that obviously it's all about profit margin on installations and there are many cowboy installers doing cheap gear off eBay with 6 cameras installed for £500. I won't work for this because of the quality of the products and the issues with returning faulty products.

 

I have used Maplins for complete CCTV kits but now feel I should up my prices and use higher quality "Prosumer" or professional products.

Are these cheap systems supplied by the customer and they hire you to install them, or is this a package you've been recommending? I guess I would make an awful installer. I would always feel the need to educate the client towards a better package, which of course would be more money, and which of course I'd probably lose the gig to someone who installs garbage for cheap. There isn't a chance I'd be caught dead installing 420tvl cameras for anyone under any circumstances in a professional hiring. I'm sure there's other awful specs to those cameras along with the tvl shortfall- not to mention the pictures they must give day & night. I'd certainly only install cameras with at least 480tvl, with a host of other bottom line specs to them for best results- and that's in the BUDGET package. What I'm really interested in knowing is- what are you installing for your PRO line? I don't mean to blast you man- I'm not an installer. But if it were me, even my budget packages- just the gear mind you- would have a certain standard of quality that ensures the customer actually has something of quality for all my effort and their money. There is decent budget gear out there to make that a reality. And because even that budget package has good quality, that would be the blend. The budget gear would produce great results for residential and businesses alike, and the higher end gear would be for the more demanding clients and installs. And mixing the two at certain times wouldn't be so drastic in quality. But that's why I'd never make money as an installer. I'd be too busy talking the client out of a mistake instead of talking the clients money into my wallet.

 

[Steven_W 0]

I know what you mean, these systems have been supplied by customers, or when I am approached to do an install they say "I have seen an 8 camera system on eBay for £400 with a monitor"... that kind of thing. The problem is that it is so easy for people to search for systems and get very cheap products they can't understand why I want to charge them double for materials.

 

A lot of my customers are on a budget, so I normally start the conversation with a disclaimer to state that I do not recommend the products they want me to install and therefore can't give them a warranty. If I do an install in one day and make say £250 out of it and it doesn't break the bank for the customer plus they have a reasonable system installed to the spec they stated, plus I have a disclaimer in place, that's the only way I proceed for a bottom end system.

 

For prosumer standards I go for 600 TVL Sony CCD cameras, RG59 throughout, a decent monitor and an XDH DVR or similar.

 

Plus I have to explain the pitfalls of the quality of their internet connection and how this can affect remote viewing. I have fallen fowl of domestic gear in professional situations and learnt the hard way! Still, you live and learn!

[Soundy 1]

This is why we don't do residential

 

We've done jobs in the past where the customer wants to just cheap out on everything... the problem with them is, they tend to be the highest-maintenance type - and I'm talking about the customer, not the gear! Always with questions, always with problems, always wanting things tweaked... and always wanting it for free (aka "under warranty"). Rule of thumb: if they want to pay as little as possible for the gear, they'll probably want to pay as little as possible for you, and they'll want to squeeze as much out of you as they can for the pittance they've given you.

 

The boss went to meet one guy once, who wanted a quote for his store... after a few minutes of chatting, the guy told him, "You know, I'll be getting some other quotes..." - okay, nothing unusual there - "...and I'll probably be going with the cheapest one." The boss's answer: "Well, ours won't be the cheapest, so I won't waste any more of your time."

 

I suppose it's a necessary evil when you're getting started, making your name, building contacts and street cred...

 

Here's an analogy you might want to use that most people can grasp (tweak to your own specifications): think of shopping for a CCTV system like planning a move, and you're looking for a truck to rent. "Domestic" systems would be a little Ford Ranger... "Prosumer" would be your F-150... and "Professional" or "Commercial" systems would be a 5-ton cube van. Any of them will do the same job - but the bigger the job, the less efficient and effective the smaller truck becomes. You COULD move an entire 4,000 square foot house's worth of stuff with the Ranger, but it's going to take you forever, and the bigger items might even break the truck. The bigger trucks may cost more, but they save you time and work, and usually save you money in the long run.

[nDAlk90 0]

This is why we don't do residential

 

I want the system cheap. The installation to be cheap. And the image to be as demonstrated on CSI.

 

[shockwave199 0]

From one of my favorite movies of all time- Moonstruck. THIS says it all.

 

WHnXIBHq73w

[nDAlk90 0]

Here a better quality version.

 

1slibJ52yoc

[pal251 0]

Don't forget people want to spend $200 and see the face of someone 100 feet away while they are 5 stories up in a building....

 

I'm so glad I am not a full time professional installer, I don't see how you guys cannot laugh in someone's face. I salute you

[SpyGuy10 0]

The boss's answer: "Well, ours won't be the cheapest, so I won't waste any more of your time."

A better reply would be: "Well, ours won't be the cheapest, but it will be the best value for your dollar."

[SpyGuy10 0]

This kind of TV fantasy nonsense is why killers now walk free from American court rooms: the idiots in the jury actually want to see this kind of "perfect" made-for-tv proof before they convict anyone. They have no capacity to reach a conclusion "beyond reasonable doubt" based on the logical analysis of real-world evidence.

[pal251 0]

Or the prosecutors are reluctant to even charge someone without a video

[groovyman 0]

This is why we don't do residential

 

We've done jobs in the past where the customer wants to just cheap out on everything... the problem with them is, they tend to be the highest-maintenance type - and I'm talking about the customer, not the gear! Always with questions, always with problems, always wanting things tweaked... and always wanting it for free (aka "under warranty"). Rule of thumb: if they want to pay as little as possible for the gear, they'll probably want to pay as little as possible for you, and they'll want to squeeze as much out of you as they can for the pittance they've given you.

Yupp. There are many people out there that just don't value the service, want the lowest cost equipment and expect perpetual support afterward.

 

Additionally, I won't provide installation service for systems they've bought themselves or sell hardware for self install. I don't want to provide support for the cheap stuff they buy or for the inevitable self install screwup. In either case, it will be my fault when something doesn't work correctly. I'll have none of it. I do this to make a living, not to have headaches. I haven't had to pop an aspirin in years

[nDAlk90 0]

Yupp. There are many people out there that just don't value the service, want the lowest cost equipment and expect perpetual support afterward.

Groovyman this is what you tell those cheap customers: (Quote from someone I worked with):

 

Customer: "How long warranty?"

 

Tech: "Lifetime, when the machine dies, so does the warranty...."

[groovyman 0]

Groovyman this is what you tell those cheap customers: (Quote from someone I worked with):

 

Customer: "How long warranty?"

 

Tech: "Lifetime, when the machine dies, so does the warranty...."

I love it! I've actually been using that for years.

[pal251 0]

Groovyman this is what you tell those cheap customers: (Quote from someone I worked with):

 

Customer: "How long warranty?"

 

Tech: "Lifetime, when the machine dies, so does the warranty...."

I love it! I've actually been using that for years.

 

Nice!