16 Channel Camera System on Large House

[IPorAnalog 0]

I am currently working on a project as a general contractor and the CCTV is installing a 16 camera system, 15 of which are mounted under soffits @ about 25ft. in the air shooting all different directions from the house.

 

I am looking to for something can provide high quality video for the homeowner and that is reliable, because I will need to service this system for the next 3 years.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

The CCTV company wants to use Digital Watchdog Cameras with a Digital Watchdog DVR.

 

He is planning:

 

(16) DIGITAL WATCHDOG DWC-IV3377WTIR DIGITAL COLOR VANDAL DOME CAMERA

 

These cameras are $460-$480 right now. They are 560 TVL and have a CCD image sensor, which the contractor says is superior than CMOS sensors.....My concern is that these are not 1 MP cameras and by spending a little bit more on megapixel IP cameras, the quality will be much better....

 

In the past I have used ACTi IP cameras and Toshiba IP PTZ Cams. This is a residential application with total darkness areas near water, yards, etc. The contractor says the DWD CCD sensor is going to be better than the CMOS sensors in the ACTi or Toshibas AND that the 560 TVL will not appear much different than a 1MP+ Ip camera. What do you all think?

 

Does anyone have any experience with these cameras as alternatives to the Digital Watchdog Camera?

I was considering these cameras as budget IP cameras of better quality. Please let me know what you all think of these cameras or if you have any suggestions. Dome or Bullet are both ok, as long as it is not obtrusive.

 

1. Toshiba IK-WR12A Surveillance/Network Camera - Color - 3x Optical - CMOS - $550

 

2. Toshiba IK-WR14A Surveillance/Network Camera - 3x Optical - CMOS - Fast Ethernet $530

 

4. Vivotek FD8134V H.264 Vandal-proof IP66 Dome Network Camera $290

 

5. Vivotek IP7361 Network camera - fixed - outdoor - weatherproof $470

 

6. ACTi TCM-1111 Network camera - fixed - outdoor - weatherproof $290

 

 

 

I have total about $10K in the budget for the materials of the system. If we go with Toshiba or ACTi IP cams, I can save some money over the Digital Watchdog DVR and go with an AVERMedia DVR. I do realize I will need a PoE switch for the cameras if they are IP (another $700).

 

 

Can we get great quality video recording using Analog Cameras and BNC connectors, or do we need to get IP cameras?

 

Are these Digital Watchdog Cameras far superior in low light and motion applications than the ACTi or Toshiba? Is it because of the CCD?

 

 

What other good budget cameras can we use? I have used Xavee and Enforcer analog cameras - both of which do not have a picture that is on par with the ACTi IP Cams.

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice.

[gtxkid 0]

I have been using other stuff for about two years now.

My friend that i have done a lot of CCTV work for has a guy we get camera's and DVR from.

Took 25 years to make the connection with him.

When you buy a lot wholesale that stuff is about half the price.

That is the only thing that is had for me to get over when i see retail price's

I would do everything in CAT 5 and ebay balems for 2 to 3 dollars a piece.

You can get really good 600+ line camera's for less than what those name brand one's cost.

There is no comparing a MP camera to analogue or whatever.

I think it works out to 1000 line's per MP, so even a 600 line camera can not compare.

I had to go into a Scrap yard and fix an automated system where there was also a security system that has never worked proper. BOY did i learn a lot. There is night and day difference between MP camera's.

You can get goos lens choice with regally camera's like 2.8 too 12mm where MP lens cost a lot if they are not fixed at like 3.8

I am trying to go MP in a huge thrift store.

I will tell you this: If you have any bad lighting to deal with use fewer better camera's

Good IR units are like 125.00 400' distance

Do not buy camera's with IR in them, i think it is a complete waist of money.

It is not going to be cheep but better it works

I see good MP camera's for about 400 and a really good analogue bullet for 350.00

It does get confusing.

Do the most important thing/// Sight servey//// really have to get with customer on this

That seams like too many camera's for that job.

You really need to get with customer and put a digital camera in his hand, have him stand where the camera goes and tell him that will be close to what he will see.

See what he wants.

Hard to make money on CCTV very time consuming to do proper.

[IPorAnalog 0]

Thanks a lot for your reply.

Do you need a ir. blaster for each camera?

 

Can you recommend a good mp camera and Ir blaster to use outside? In those prices ranges.

 

Thanks again.

[IPorAnalog 0]

Also

I agree, it's going to look ridiculous with that many cameras.

He wants to see or record everything, is there another way?

[dahomes555 0]

Last response was a little unclear (to me) so thought I'd clarify a little bit.

 

IP vs analog will require totally different equipment from a recording standpoint and from a camera standpoint. They're not really interchangeable, unless you get what is called a Hybrid DVR which will support a certain number of analog channels plus a certain number of licenses for IP cameras.

 

In any event, what I would make sure to do when you are bidding this job is run Cat5e cable plus an 18/2 power cable. You can use the Cat5e cable with video baluns if the client ends up opting for the analog Digital Watchdog system, but if a year or two down the road he wants higher resolution cameras your wiring is all in place to convert him to IP.

 

You will potentially see a quality difference in going IP vs analog. But there are also a lot of crap IP cameras out there that have lower resolution than a decent analog camera. As a general rule, I would say for a decent analog camera you are probably looking at $75-150 per camera, while a decent IP camera is probably more in the $300-500 range. Anything outside of those ranges is going to be missing something.

 

At the end of the day, though, your cameras are only as good as the recorder/monitor. Get a good quality D1 DVR (the Digital Watchdog brand is fine) or if you are going IP, get a good quality PC with a zippy processor, upgraded video card, and plenty of RAM. Couple that server with a good quality VMS (IP software) and you'll be in good shape.

 

One other aspect of IP that you'll want to be sure of is bandwidth. For a 16 camera system, I'd recommend that the cameras be on their own dedicated network. Buy a 24 port switch and a decent router that is only being used for the cameras. The customer will want their computers, wifi, printers, etc. on its own network otherwise everything will run slow and will need to be rebooted more frequently.

[Soundy 1]

if you are going IP, get a good quality PC with a zippy processor, upgraded video card, and plenty of RAM. Couple that server with a good quality VMS (IP software) and you'll be in good shape.

Keep in mind that you need a 64-bit OS to take advantage of anything over ~3.5GB of RAM, and if you do that, you want to make sure your VMS is compatible. Don't get too stupid on the video card, either - camera playback doesn't need a high-end 3D gaming card.

 

One other aspect of IP that you'll want to be sure of is bandwidth. For a 16 camera system, I'd recommend that the cameras be on their own dedicated network. Buy a 24 port switch and a decent router that is only being used for the cameras. The customer will want their computers, wifi, printers, etc. on its own network otherwise everything will run slow and will need to be rebooted more frequently.

Better yet, get a PoE switch and then you don't have to power the cameras separately. You don't need a separate router, though - just plug your cameras, NVR, and network storage (if necessary) into their own switch, then connect that into your network. It's not like the old days of hubs, where that camera traffic is going to flood the whole network.

 

Also, you want to make sure the switch has gigabit ports for AT LEAST the NVR and optional storage. The cameras don't need it because almost no IP cameras have gigabit on them anyway. And make sure not to cheap out on the switch - you need something with sufficient backplane to handle all that aggregate traffic.

 

As to that storage: with 16 megapixel cameras, you'll really want to consider some kind of external RAID array, because that's going to take up a LOT of space. Optionally, you can look at RAID systems from the likes of QNAP or Synology, that combine NVR functionality in them. QNAP has a line that's specifically oriented toward being an NVR, with extensive support for different IP cameras (www.qnapsecurity.com).

 

And on that note, if you do go the IP route, you need to check your NVR's compatibility list and make sure the cameras you use are on it.

[IPorAnalog 0]

Thanks a lot!

 

I have been using Avermedia Hybrid DVRs for some time now and their new line is about $2,000 with 16 channel D1 recording. I installed it into my office and everyone loves it.

 

I plan to use a $700 Dell PoE switch which can do all 16 cameras. I ran Cat6A shielded Foiled twisted pair from directron.com plan to do direct POE over the cable. This cable is $160/1000ft and is heavy as rope.

 

Any recommendation for an outdoor Dome or Bullet camera?