Suggestion for PIR/doppler sensor for trigging motion

[camera-newbie 0]

Ok.. So my Avigilon encoder supports 4 inputs and I'm thinking it might be a good idea to make use of them by adding in some motion detecting features using external sensors that can likely see better in the dark.

 

To that end, I'm looking for a nice wide sensor that can get hopefully wider than a 90 degree FOV -- something 120+ would be great. On top of that I'd love to have one that also has the creep zone detection and is pet saavy since we've got hens roaming the backyard and it'd be nice to not to find tons of videos of chickens doing their 'thing' in the yard at the end of the day . To that end, what are my options that are hopefully <$150ea.. I saw some nice units by protech but can't afford the price tag on them.. I saw that Honeywell makes some nice units with masking features, MAP, etc.. Any suggestions on sensors?

 

Also, when it comes time to wire up such a device, I'm assuming I can run the ~12VDC power that the sensors use and also connect it to the input on the relay which, when triggered, will be fed back to the encoder indicating a "alarm trigger".. Is that more or less how you guys wire these things up?

 

One last question -- when using sensors like this, what do you use for a power source? One supply for 'N' sensors or a bunch of wall-warts?

 

Thanks!!!

[bike_rider 0]

optex LX-402. Does exactly what you are looking for.

[thewireguys 3]

http://www.optexamerica.com/productpage.aspx?l1=2&l2=&id=22

 

This also would be a good fit. Chickens would not set this unit off you have to break both top and bottom beams.

[camera-newbie 0]

How long would that last one work when running from a battery? That'd be something I could possibly attach to the side of the chicken coop to provide further yard coverage perpendicular to the house.. Slick.. If it can last on a battery for perhaps 2-3 months that might be OK.

 

Does optex make a version with doppler as well as PIR? The docs seem to indicate that they only use PIR..

[camera-newbie 0]

One other thing I noticed while perusing the various sensor mfg sites.. Most sensors must be mounted fairly low to the ground -- one by DSC needed to be no higher than 1.5M off the ground max.. Can any of these sensors be placed 8ft or higher up -- like on the edge of a roof and pointed in the general direction of the target area? Seems like a no based on what I've read..

 

Edit: I did notice that Optex has a high-mount model #HX-40 that might work but the specs claim it shouldn't be mounted any higher than 10 feet.. I'd prefer something twice as high -- at least 20 and possibly as high as 25 feet. I'm starting to think that instead of using a single sensor in the middle of the yard and high up, I'll need to use two sensors at each corner of the roof line and aim it to the left or right to cover the yard that way.. Going that route would probably have the sensors mounted about 8' up give or take. Is this more of less what some of you have done?

[thewireguys 3]

How long would that last one work when running from a battery? That'd be something I could possibly attach to the side of the chicken coop to provide further yard coverage perpendicular to the house.. Slick.. If it can last on a battery for perhaps 2-3 months that might be OK.

 

Does optex make a version with doppler as well as PIR? The docs seem to indicate that they only use PIR..

 

Optex is telling me there units will last 3-5 years on battery

[camera-newbie 0]

How long would that last one work when running from a battery? That'd be something I could possibly attach to the side of the chicken coop to provide further yard coverage perpendicular to the house.. Slick.. If it can last on a battery for perhaps 2-3 months that might be OK.

 

Does optex make a version with doppler as well as PIR? The docs seem to indicate that they only use PIR..

 

Optex is telling me there units will last 3-5 years on battery

 

Cool.. Thanks for the info!! Also, with any of these PIR devices, is it considered OK to have overlap when using multiple devices without one causing problems for the other IF some of their coverage areas overlap?

 

Hmm.. In looking at the install guide for the VX402, swaying trees may be an issue for it which is something that would be in its FOV in my case.. Dang.. It doesn't help that it wants to be no higher than 1.2 meters.. I guess I could put it REALLY low (2.7 feet) and hope for the best. I do have a couple of peach trees (dwarf's) that are really low to the ground so perhaps that won't be as much an issue unless it's really windy which usually isn't the case..

[camera-newbie 0]

Ok.. I'm thinking that their HX-40's might be the right ticket for me -- perhaps 3 of them in the backyard.. one on each rear corner of the house since they only cover 85 degrees max and another on the chicken coop pointing perpendicular to the others, towards the neighbors fence.. That last one will be a wireless version with integrated transmitter. Now I just need to find a transmitter than can share the batteries used by the sensor AND fit into the battery box provided.. Anyone used the battery powered version of the HX40?

[thewireguys 3]

30G5iMZ6sxQ

[camera-newbie 0]

Cool.. Thanks for the video.. I had to wait to get home to see it since Youtube is blocked while I'm at work..

 

By the way.. I was chatting with one of the support guys over at Inovonics and he said the range of their transmitter (model#EN1941) is 1/2 mile line of sight so it shouldn't have any issues penetrating a few walls in our house and traveling about 125ft max. Pretty slick..

[the toss 0]

I don't know what PIRs you are looking at that recomend such a low mounting height Most PIRs that I work with want a height of about 2 - 2.5 m. There is an important reason to stick with the recommended mounting height & that is that it will give a known detection area for the design parameters. By knowing the detection area you can design a lot of "smart analytics" into the PIR. A sure sign of a poorly designed PIR is the inclusion of a sensitivity adjustment because the design parameters are so poorly addressed that it is left to the installer do whatever he can to make it work. Invariably the sensitivity adjustment is set too high to try to get maximun coverage which only results in false alarms. The poor old PIR is left with the decision - " am I seeing a human at 20" or is it an elephant at 80' "

 

Generally in the PIR world the longer the designed detection range the higher the mounting height.

[camera-newbie 0]

I think I've set my eyes on the Optex HX-40RAM model which claims per their docs to be able to mount up to 10' high max which is what I'm planning on following. Some of the DSC models (LC-171 specifically) claims a max height of 1.5M for whatever reason.. I've ditched that idea in favor of the HX-40RAM.

[camera-newbie 0]

Hi all.. Just a quick update and one more question if you don't mind as I'm waiting for some parts to arrive for the next round of the camera system..

 

I'm now looking at the best way to trigger the power on an AC socket (or 2-3) to control IR lighting which will be turned on by an I/O port on my encoder upon receipt of a signal from the sensor mentioned above. In this case I'll be probably using a Raytec Fusion 50 IR illuminator (or similar) but would prefer not to power it 24x7 if I don't need to.. The thought was to only power the IR up (and start recording) when one of the sensors is triggered. Should I even bother with this level of detail or just leave the IR powered up 24x7 and let the internal photo-sensor turn it on/off at night and just run it all night long? I'm thinking that it would save a fair amount of power and be a bit more covert if it was not on, unless a sensor was triggered.. besides extending the life on the IR itself..

 

To that end, and if I go that route, I need a way to control the power on one or more AC outlets OR the output of whatever supply I use to power the Raytec (or equiv) since it doesn't run on 110v directly anyway -- I could power it from the same AC supply that powers the CNB cameras which might be the easiest way as long as the current draw is not excessive (22W) and not exceeding what my supply is capable of.. Comments?

 

P.S. One of these might be the ticket.. Just need a 12VDC power supply to feed into the encoder (handles max voltage 28vdc IIRC) to trigger the relay upon sensor detection..

[thewireguys 3]

Order the extra Telemerty input cable and use "Photocell following contact"

 

http://www.rayteccctv.com/_assets/library/d1761e48a0a875d3b5466a50ab9f615cdc4885ca/FUSION_Install_Instructions_v4.pdf

[camera-newbie 0]

Order the extra Telemerty input cable and use "Photocell following contact"

 

http://www.rayteccctv.com/_assets/library/d1761e48a0a875d3b5466a50ab9f615cdc4885ca/FUSION_Install_Instructions_v4.pdf

 

Michael.. You're da man! I had seem that their illuminators support telemetry but didn't look into what it really meant.. Doh! I'll check it out.. Nice! " title="Applause" />

[camera-newbie 0]

Is this still applicable to the Raymax RM50-F-120-TEL? The instructions only talk about telemetry on the F100 specifically but there is a line at the end mentioning telemetry as an option for the RM50.. If that works out, then I just need to find a place to buy one from..

[thewireguys 3]

You know what I think your right but I would hold off a couple of weeks for the new Vario anyway. Same price as the Fusion line but a lot more features.

[camera-newbie 0]

I popped a note to Raytec asking for clarification.. Thanks for the suggestion on the Vario's.. I think the smallest would be PLENTY for my situation (unless I want two -- which might be needed for our yard).. I'll check it out.. It's got some nice features!

[thewireguys 3]

This one?

 

http://www.rayteccctv.com/_assets/library/a222919e8c877ab34e730662e7a704eefa999111/Raymax_Vario_i2_v1-2.pdf

[camera-newbie 0]

Yes.. (sorry.. I responded and then later edited my post above).. That's the one -- if the pricing is essentially the same that'd be great. Is it going to be generally available in a few weeks? I like the remote control feature among others. Ultimately I'll need a few of these -- too bad they don't have one with a wider FOV than 60.. Damn this hobby is going to get expensive!!

[thewireguys 3]

They do Look at the optional parts at the bottom of the PDF. Optional Lens

[camera-newbie 0]

They do Look at the optional parts at the bottom of the PDF. Optional Lens

 

 

Thanks.. I gotta learn to look a bit closer! Slick product!!

[camera-newbie 0]

So, I got a reply back from Raytec late last night and regarding telemetry inputs on their units (I assume this goes for any of their hardware that has the telemetry feature):

 

Telemetry is a “volt free” contact. Telemetry operates as Open / Closed circuit.

I'm still trying to digest that but I think it sounds like, in a nutshell, I would only need to close a circuit (aka short a pair of wires?) to turn the unit on or off -- is that your take on that as well?

 

I may be ordering direct thru their sales people in Canada since I can't find anyone... I'll keep you posted on what I get as I'm awaiting another reply from Raytec on whether to get the i2 or i4 with the wide angle optional lens for my situation.

 

[edited to remove UK link]

Edited April 24, 2012 by Guest

[tomcctv 190]

hi. the vario has been available in the uk for over 12 months saw it at ifsec last year. dont know why its not available in america ......

 

please do not buy from the link you have posted. (please edit)

 

 

two options. you can order from ganz USA of from a mobotix trading group mayflex. both of which you dont need to worry about sending money too.

 

http://www.mayflex.com/products/security-lighting/infra-red/raytec-vario-i-series-multi-angle-infra-red-illuminators/

[camera-newbie 0]

I've updated the post above to remove the link.. Thanks for the suggestion on Mayflex -- I do recall seeing their site in Google the other night and will check them out!

 

Hey Tom.. Is the Ganz reference above referring to the ComputarGanz website? If so, I wonder if I could order from their Torrance office (where I live).. Hmm..