Two parallel 500' coax home runs, or Cat5 + baluns, or ???

[SpyGuy10 0]

Currently, there is a hybrid DVR system at one building with several analog cams connected. We want to place two more cams at another building. These two cams will be spaced about 40 feet apart at the second building, and each cam will have different views. But both will have to feed back to the main office building which is a 500-foot home run. Cabling can be strung aerially on our existing phone poles (there are no power lines).

 

We will probably want to stay with analog cams at the second building in order to minimize expenses (cost of cams + IP licensing fees for the DVR software), however am willing consider IP if there is a compelling advantage besides just higher resolution.

 

I'd like to get recommendations on the best way to make the home runs (assuming we stay with analog cams):

 

1. Two parallel 500' RG59 coax cable runs? or...

 

2. A single Cat5e cable run with two sets of video baluns at each end to encode/decode the video stream? or...

 

3. Some other option?

 

I've seen dual RG6 coax with a messenger cable for making two parallel aerial runs (used for dual satellite feeds), but all I've found so far is copper-clad steel conductors and 60% braided shielding; this grade of cable is not recommended for CCTV signals. I have not yet found any dual RG59 solid copper cable.

 

Line power is available at the second building, so no need to worry about supplying power on this cable run; only signal.

 

Or is analog obsolete and I should really be looking at IP cams?

[Soundy 1]

You could always forego the cables altogether and do IP over Ubiquiti wireless (assuming you've got line-of-sight between the two buildings) - probably be cheaper in the long run, than putting up the poles and stringing messenger-equipped cable.

 

Other than that, I think you'd be better off using the Cat5, just for cost considerations: looking at retail prices around here, retail pricing for RG59 or RG6 is a bit more than cost of Cat5e, and you'd need twice as much of it - call it around $100 for a 1000' box of either, and you're talking $50 vs. $100 for cabling... plus the UTP gives you the ability to add two more video feeds later, with no extra cable cost.

[the toss 0]

Obviously cat 5/6 is the way to go to future-proof the installation. A Cat 5/6 install is good if done properly. I know they are out there but I am yet to see one. The problem is the fragile nature of solid core UTP cable. All the installations I have seen terminate the cat 5/6 pair to the balun which is then plugged onto the BNC DVR I/P. These are the jobs that you are not game to put your hand anywhere near the back of the DVR because you just know that something is going to stop working. If the installation is done along data cabling standards it should be fine. ie patch panel with feed through BNC connectors. Balun plugged into back of feed through BNC. Cat 5/6 pair terminated to balun behind patch panel. Cat 5/6 cable loomed & secured to prevent movement. Then it is simply a patch cable from the patch panel to the DVR.

Easy & reliable but everyone is cost driven unfortunately

[SpyGuy10 0]

You could always forego the cables altogether and do IP over Ubiquiti wireless (assuming you've got line-of-sight between the two buildings) - probably be cheaper in the long run, than putting up the poles and stringing messenger-equipped cable.

The poles are already in place carrying telephone and fire alarm signal wiring between buildings. So the only cost will be the cable and the labor of stringing it on the existing poles. We have our own bucket truck on site for hanging the cable.

 

While I agree that wireless can be the best option for installs where it is very difficult/expensive to run cable (and I have another site that does require wireless), I don't think this project qualifies. I'd prefer a hardwired connection over wireless just for reliability and reduced complexity. In this case, a 500 foot home run on existing poles would not be difficult, even if I had to run parallel coax cables.

[SpyGuy10 0]

Obviously cat 5/6 is the way to go to future-proof the installation. A Cat 5/6 install is good if done properly. I know they are out there but I am yet to see one. The problem is the fragile nature of solid core UTP cable. All the installations I have seen terminate the cat 5/6 pair to the balun which is then plugged onto the BNC DVR I/P. These are the jobs that you are not game to put your hand anywhere near the back of the DVR because you just know that something is going to stop working. If the installation is done along data cabling standards it should be fine. ie patch panel with feed through BNC connectors. Balun plugged into back of feed through BNC. Cat 5/6 pair terminated to balun behind patch panel. Cat 5/6 cable loomed & secured to prevent movement. Then it is simply a patch cable from the patch panel to the DVR. Easy & reliable but everyone is cost driven unfortunately

This sounds like the way to go. The DVR I'm connecting to is PC-based. So the coax connects to a PCI card in the computer via a plug-in, multi-cable patchcord (an "octopus"). So I can connect the individual BNC leads from that cable directly to the BNC patch panel.

 

I assume you'd recommend I do the same thing at the building where the cams are located: coax cable from the two cams to the front of a centrally mounted BNC patch panel, baluns behind, and then connected to the CAT5. Correct? Is there a limit on the length of the coax from the cam to the balun?

 

What make and model baluns would you (the esteemed members of this forum) recommend? Should I go for passive or active baluns?

 

Also, should I go with UTP or F/UTP (a single layer of metallic foil shielding w/ drain wire overwrapping the twisted pairs)? The priceing is about the same for either.

[SpyGuy10 0]

I was just googling video baluns and found this: a 4-channel passive balun that incorporates its own BNC patch panel.

 

 

http://www.cctvcamerapros.com/4-Channel-Video-Transmitter-p/balun-4phub.htm

[Soundy 1]

I was just googling video baluns and found this: a 4-channel passive balun that incorporates its own BNC patch panel.

 

That'll work - there are lots of those out there. That will also mean you're ready to easily add up to two more cameras later on.

 

I assume you'd recommend I do the same thing at the building where the cams are located: coax cable from the two cams to the front of a centrally mounted BNC patch panel, baluns behind, and then connected to the CAT5.

I wouldn't even worry about a patch panel in this case: terminate the Cat5e in an RJ45 plug, and plug it right into the balun. Screw the balun to the wall (or whatever you're mounting it to), anchor the Cat5 in place, and you're done.

 

Is there a limit on the length of the coax from the cam to the balun?

Yeah, probably 200-300'.

 

What make and model baluns would you (the esteemed members of this forum) recommend? Should I go for passive or active baluns?

I've been using mostly GEM baluns (www.gemelec.com) and find them reliable and cost-effective. They also have the quad units like you show above. Given the distance involved, I'd probably use active at the camera end and passive at the DVR end.

[SpyGuy10 0]

I assume you'd recommend I do the same thing at the building where the cams are located: coax cable from the two cams to the front of a centrally mounted BNC patch panel, baluns behind, and then connected to the CAT5.

I wouldn't even worry about a patch panel in this case: terminate the Cat5e in an RJ45 plug, and plug it right into the balun. Screw the balun to the wall (or whatever you're mounting it to), anchor the Cat5 in place, and you're done.

I wrote that about the separate patch panel + baluns before discovering the 4-channel balun with RJ45 port and 4 BNC connectors. With the 4-channel unit, a "patch panel" is essentially already built into the unit. So, I agree: I would simply mount one 4-ch unit near the cameras, and another near the DVR and I'd be good to go.

 

 

Given the distance involved, I'd probably use active at the camera end and passive at the DVR end.

I didn't think 500' was that great a distance for baluns. The 4-ch unit I posted above is passive and they claim it's rated to 1,200 ft on Cat5. Of course that's probably a "theoretical" maximum (ideal conditions), but shouldn't I be able to get at least half that distance?

[Soundy 1]

Given the distance involved, I'd probably use active at the camera end and passive at the DVR end.

I didn't think 500' was that great a distance for baluns. The 4-ch unit I posted above is passive and they claim it's rated to 1,200 ft on Cat5. Of course that's probably a "theoretical" maximum (ideal conditions), but shouldn't I be able to get at least half that distance?

It SHOULD be fine... just erring on the side of caution.

[the toss 0]

I was just googling video baluns and found this: a 4-channel passive balun that incorporates its own BNC patch panel.

 

 

http://www.cctvcamerapros.com/4-Channel-Video-Transmitter-p/balun-4phub.htm

 

They do the job nicely as long as the cat 5 cable is not just swinging in the breeze. Baluns dangling off the end of cat 5 feature prominently in my worst nightmares

[SpyGuy10 0]

They do the job nicely as long as the cat 5 cable is not just swinging in the breeze.

Not on my watch. I pride myself on my installations.

[pal251 0]

I was just googling video baluns and found this: a 4-channel passive balun that incorporates its own BNC patch panel.

 

 

http://www.cctvcamerapros.com/4-Channel-Video-Transmitter-p/balun-4phub.htm

 

They do the job nicely as long as the cat 5 cable is not just swinging in the breeze. Baluns dangling off the end of cat 5 feature prominently in my worst nightmares

 

 

I am adding 4 new cameras into my system later this week at one of my Hotels..

 

The existing cameras are running coax. I want to switch to Cat 5. Can I put a small video balun on the camera and run the cat 5 into that unit then go straight to my dvr from there?

 

Basically should have 4 cat5 cables going into the back of the balun on the patch panel and then switch over to the dvr

[Soundy 1]

 

 

I am adding 4 new cameras into my system later this week at one of my Hotels..

 

The existing cameras are running coax. I want to switch to Cat 5. Can I put a small video balun on the camera and run the cat 5 into that unit then go straight to my dvr from there?

 

Basically should have 4 cat5 cables going into the back of the balun on the patch panel and then switch over to the dvr

Yes.

[jeromephone 6]

As far as future proofing using the cat 5/6 is the way to go except if you switch to IP you have to deal with the 100 meter limits that ethernet requires.

[Soundy 1]

As far as future proofing using the cat 5/6 is the way to go except if you switch to IP you have to deal with the 100 meter limits that ethernet requires.

True, but there are plenty of ways around that.

[pal251 0]

 

 

I am adding 4 new cameras into my system later this week at one of my Hotels..

 

The existing cameras are running coax. I want to switch to Cat 5. Can I put a small video balun on the camera and run the cat 5 into that unit then go straight to my dvr from there?

 

Basically should have 4 cat5 cables going into the back of the balun on the patch panel and then switch over to the dvr

Yes.

 

Thanks Soundy, too bad I already ordered the separate baluns off of Ebay. Any sponsors of this site that offer an 8 port video balun passive?

[pal251 0]

 

 

I am adding 4 new cameras into my system later this week at one of my Hotels..

 

The existing cameras are running coax. I want to switch to Cat 5. Can I put a small video balun on the camera and run the cat 5 into that unit then go straight to my dvr from there?

 

Basically should have 4 cat5 cables going into the back of the balun on the patch panel and then switch over to the dvr

Yes.

 

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse but I wanna make sure Before I order this thing. (ordering another one from amazon)

 

This is how its going to be setup with my simple diagram

 

Camera hooked to the standard one channel utp video balun> cat 5 cable>patch panel of 4 port video balun output from video balun via BNC Coax into the DVR

 

This is then repeated 3 other times for the other cameras

 

correct?

 

Thanks

[Soundy 1]

Correct. But remember to use only ONE PAIR for each video run - I normally use the blue pair: solid for "+", white/blue for "-", but use whatever color you like.

[pal251 0]

Yes I will only use one pair.

 

I am using 18 gauge 2 conductor cable for my power wire.