CAT 5 question pleaase :)

[Daviddc114 0]

Hey everyone, i just have a question on cat 5, i am switching a standard CCTV camera over to a PTZ camera, and i am sending cat5 for the PTZ control, i am wondering if it would be OK to also use that same cat 5 to run a microphone.. also, would it hurt anything sharing the power feed for the camera with the mic.. the power wire is BNC rg59 with power) that's what, 24 gauge i think??? thanks..

[nDAlk90 0]

i am sending cat5 for the PTZ control, i am wondering if it would be OK to also use that same cat 5 to run a microphone

 

Yes.

 

.. also, would it hurt anything sharing the power feed for the camera with the mic..

 

As long as the PTZ is 12v DC and not 24v AC.

 

the power wire is BNC rg59 with power) that's what, 24 gauge i think??? thanks..

 

No. RG59 Siamese is usually 18 gauge.

 

 

Good Luck.

[Daviddc114 0]

great! Thank you so much! i am new to using cat 5 for my surveillance systems, (aside from the actual networking part) it seems like a great versatile cable, is there any other tips / uses for cat 5 that would make my installs easier?? can it handle power of any kind? if it can, can you mix power with signal without interference? for instance using it to run a mic and using 2 leads for audio and 2 leads for power?? thanks again!

[nDAlk90 0]

Heres a solution. Terminate the Cat5e on each side with a rj45 connector and connect to this balun. It lets you send power, audio, and video all through one cat5e cable.

 

 

 

Below is a link. What do you think?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230757023529

[Soundy 1]

.. also, would it hurt anything sharing the power feed for the camera with the mic..

 

As long as the PTZ is 12v DC and not 24v AC.

Why not 24VAC?

[Soundy 1]

Heres a solution. Terminate the Cat5e on each side with a rj45 connector and connect to this balun. It lets you send power, audio, and video all through one cat5e cable.

 

 

 

Below is a link. What do you think?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230757023529

Only thing this diagram has wrong the 100m maximum on the cable - that's a limitation for *ethernet* itself, not for analog A/V.

 

Depending on the camera's current requirements, the maximum length may actually be a lot less, as you're using only two pairs for power with these baluns, and the voltage loss may be excessive.

[Daviddc114 0]

wait.. i... uh.. what??? that's AWESOME!!! only $7 a pair??? that's crazy!! is there a wholesaler i can go to and get these or are they just an eBay deal?? what is the pros and cons using this vs. RG59 Siamese??

 

 

the other thing is, if your doing say a 16 camera system, going into the power supply box might get kind of ugly, because now you have to convert the balun back to BNC for the DVR and back to power wire to go into the the power box... might need an empty metal box just to hide the conversion (for cleanliness reasons).

 

does the baluns actually do anything as far as converting the signals? i mean if you can use a balun like this, can you just use the wire itself for AV sound and power via soldering????

Edited April 22, 2012 by Guest

[Daviddc114 0]

.. also, would it hurt anything sharing the power feed for the camera with the mic..

 

As long as the PTZ is 12v DC and not 24v AC.

Why not 24VAC?

 

because microphones are 12vdc, cameras are also, but some PTZ are 24vac.. cant mix voltages..

[Daviddc114 0]

wait.. i... uh.. what??? that's AWESOME!!! only $7 a pair??? that's crazy!! is there a wholesaler i can go to and get these or are they just an eBay deal?? what is the pros and cons using this vs. RG59 Siamese??

 

 

the other thing is, if your doing say a 16 camera system, going into the power supply box might get kind of ugly, because now you have to convert the balun back to BNC for the DVR and back to power wire to go into the the power box... might need an empty metal box just to hide the conversion (for cleanliness reasons).

 

does the baluns actually do anything as far as converting the signals? i mean if you can use a balun like this, can you just use the wire itself for AV sound and power via soldering????

 

come on guys!! im salivating over those Baluns!! i would rather find a wholesaler because if i get used to using them i would hate to not be able to find them again! i am a QSEE dealer, but they don't offer me such things!!

[Soundy 1]

wait.. i... uh.. what??? that's AWESOME!!! only $7 a pair??? that's crazy!! is there a wholesaler i can go to and get these or are they just an eBay deal?? what is the pros and cons using this vs. RG59 Siamese??

If you use cheap 12V cameras that use a common video and power ground, along with a central power supply that gives all the cameras a common ground, you can get ground loops using baluns. This is not a problem with cameras that have internal regulators, or if you use individual power supplies.

 

the other thing is, if your doing say a 16 camera system, going into the power supply box might get kind of ugly, because now you have to convert the balun back to BNC for the DVR and back to power wire to go into the the power box... might need an empty metal box just to hide the conversion (for cleanliness reasons).

There's that... or you can use something like this: http://easterncctv.com/accessories/ev16p-vps.htm

 

Combines 16-channel power supply and 16 baluns, then you just need short RG59/BNC patch cables to your DVR, and a suitable balun on the other end. These are similar in function to the others posted, just without audio: http://www.easterncctv.com/accessories/ev01p-vp-t.htm

 

does the baluns actually do anything as far as converting the signals? i mean if you can use a balun like this, can you just use the wire itself for AV sound and power via soldering????

The only real function they converting the unbalanced BNC connection to a 100 ohm balanced connection over the wire (hence the name, BALanced/UNbalanced), then back again at the other end. Other than that, power, and PTZ controls are just straight-through connections, and I suspect the audio lines are as well. In fact, you can just use something like this: http://gemelec.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=721&category_id=72&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

 

because microphones are 12vdc,

Which ones? Use dynamic mics and there's no external power required.

 

cameras are also

,

Not all of them.

 

but some PTZ are 24vac.. cant mix voltages..

Some PTZ are also 12VDC.

 

Your choice of power is dictated by the camera's requirement... it has nothing to do with the wire. There's NO reason not to use 24VAC over UTP; in fact, if the camera supports it, it may be preferable, as you get less voltage drop over longer runs.

[Daviddc114 0]

Now how much does that video BALUN cost? and now you just need to buy the BALUN transmitters, not the receivers.. can you buy them this way? i though they only come in pairs.. that unit is also just for the video and power, it would not work for PTZ control or audio, so it kind of limits you, if you want even 1 PTZ or audio camera, now you need a separate power supply, or wire.. i definitely think the BALUNs have their place, and its nice to know whats available for certain installs, but i'm not sure that you would completely go this route for all installs over RG59 Siamese..

 

i just had another thought, you now have to hide that BALUN outside (by the camera) on the customers house, not sure (in some cases) it would look as clean as just having the RG59.. most times i am able to have the RG59 hidden behind the corner molding on the vinyl siding, not sure the BALUN would fit behind that molding. also, i wonder how the BALUN would hold up in the snow and heat from the sun.. i think i like rg59 siamese for video and power, and a run of CAT5 for microphone and PTZ.. thoughts?

[Soundy 1]

Now how much does that video BALUN cost?

Offhand, I don't recall... not that much, really, considering it's an integrated power supply as well.

 

and now you just need to buy the BALUN transmitters, not the receivers.. can you buy them this way? i though they only come in pairs..

Not so. Baluns are bi-directional devices. There's no difference between transmitter and receiver. The VPS unit can work as either, too.

 

that unit is also just for the video and power, it would not work for PTZ control or audio, so it kind of limits you,

Potentially... you can always split off a pair to use for PTZ or audio, although at that point you have only two pairs left for power, and given how power-hungry PTZs are, it would only work for a very short run.

 

if you want even 1 PTZ or audio camera, now you need a separate power supply, or wire.. i definitely think the BALUNs have their place, and its nice to know whats available for certain installs, but i'm not sure that you would completely go this route for all installs over RG59 Siamese..

In 8.5 years doing this professionally, and thousands of cameras, I've never installed a camera with audio, and haven't installed a new PTZ in about four years. Both are neat to play with around home, but in the commercial world, just aren't necessary most of the time (especially since audio recording is illegal in many jurisdictions).

 

They have kind of the opposite ends of the spectrum in functional issues: a PTZ will still only record whatever it's looking at at any given moment, and really isn't that effective without a live operator; and a microphone will pick up EVERYTHING in the area - EVERY bit of background noise, echoes, rumbling, wind, insects, traffic... you can't "zoom in" with a mic to isolate a specific area (at least not without getting into a very specialized, very bulky, and very expensive option like a parabolic or shotgun mic).

 

i just had another thought, you now have to hide that BALUN outside (by the camera) on the customers house, not sure (in some cases) it would look as clean as just having the RG59.. most times i am able to have the RG59 hidden behind the corner molding on the vinyl siding, not sure the BALUN would fit behind that molding.

All depends on the camera design... using the CNB domes, I find the little GEM baluns fit inside the back-box quite nicely.

 

also, i wonder how the BALUN would hold up in the snow and heat from the sun

A balun is a ridiculously simple passive device: it's a small transformer and maybe a couple of capacitors. They really aren't affected by temperature extremes. Plus, I don't put them out in open weather anyway. ANY connection will corrode and degrade over time if you do that, including a BNC on the end of siamese cable.

[MaxIcon 0]

a microphone will pick up EVERYTHING in the area - EVERY bit of background noise, echoes, rumbling, wind, insects, traffic... you can't "zoom in" with a mic to isolate a specific area (at least not without getting into a very specialized, very bulky, and very expensive option like a parabolic or shotgun mic).

 

This is true. I have a camera with a built-in mic watching the front door, and when using the web interface, the audio is automatically on. Sometimes I forget and there's this overall increase in background noise around the PC, until I hear a car go by (or crickets at night). That reminds me to go mute the mic, and it's so much quieter, I laugh at not having noticed sooner.

 

I never record the audio, due to the potential legal issues, which vary from state to state in the US.

[magnus 0]

Would there be any benefit if u use cat 6. Will it provide more power for the ptz cameras?

[Soundy 1]

Would there be any benefit if u use cat 6. Will it provide more power for the ptz cameras?

VERY little - Cat6 is 23 AWG vs. 24 for Cat5e.

[Numb-nuts 1]

How long is the run to your PTZ and mic from the DVR?