Brands to look into, brands to avoid... Any insight?

[jasauders 0]

Hey guys! New user here. Also a new home owner. Since things are settling down I want to look into getting some video surveillance. I've used ZoneMinder in the past and I intend to use it again since I have a Linux server here and can easily dump that software right on the same box. I'm doing what I can do cipher through all of the brands and reading reviews, etc., but I'm having an incredibly hard time. So, here I am! Be gentle.

 

I have a list of items I'd like the camera to have. I'm aiming for one camera, which will monitor the driveway/ground-level deck/back door/car port all in 1 shot.

 

It must be:

 

Outdoor Camera

Night Vision (to some degree)

POE

 

I've of course read about the usual brands that are littered on Google Shopping. I found Agasio and Apexis, which seem to be sister companies. I was incredibly turned off by Apexis's insane lack of proper punctuation and spelling in their FAQ section, which turned me off to both companies all together.

 

I'm not sure about other brands, such as Heivision, HooToo, Wansview, etc. How do they rank on the list? I recently came across a Ubiquiti AirCam which was insanely perfect for what I was after, except it had absolutely no IR so I kind of crossed it off the list. It was depressing because they can be picked up for $110 USD rather easily.

 

So... what do you guys recommend? I'm not after anything top end and amazing with 1080 playback and all that, but of course, the better bang for the buck is the name of the game. If I can grab one for (don't hit me) 200 or less that somewhat fits the parameters I'm after, it would be tremendously awesome...

 

My number one concern is I absolutely do not want a camera that requires specific software to configure for simple things like setting it to DHCP, etc. I only use Linux these days, which is problem number 1 when it comes to Win/Mac specific configuration software, but problem number 2 is a web GUI configuration is the way to go these days, so if certain vendors are still requiring users to install software just to make simple changes, then right away I'd have to cross it off the list. I read a review about a camera where a Linux user said he had to install the software via Wine to make it happen. Ehh... That doesn't exactly excite me.

 

Am I out of my mind? Or do you guys think there are some brands out there that I can look further into?

 

Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks much!

[Soundy 1]

IQEye cameras, AFAIK, all default to DHCP, and use a Java-based browser plugin for configuration (they have an ActiveX one that gives a couple more "user" features and has slightly better performance, but if it can't load that, it automatically fails through to the Java one, which still gives full configuration access). They can also be configured via SSH, several parameters can be controlled on the URL "command line", and you can FTP scripts to them as well.

[jasauders 0]

Pardon my ignorance (still trying to get up to speed here) but what are you referencing when you say eye Q cameras? Also, any specific brands or even a specific camera by chance that you guys would recommend that may be up my alley? Thanks again!

 

Edit = cancel that. I never heard of IQ eye before. I had no idea they were a brand. I'll look into them. Thanks!

 

Edit II = ouch... Their prices knock them off the list of possibilities. Looks like great gear but I just can't swing that.

[Soundy 1]

Unfortunately, if you're going to limit the list to cameras that will work in a Linux-only environment, the list is going to be extremely small... and it most certainly is not going to be the bottom end of the price scale. There are only two brands that come immediately to mind that don't require ActiveX or a Windows-based utility to adjust and configure, and those are IQ, using Java, and Pelco Sarix, which the one model I tested used a Quicktime-based interface... and if you thought IQ was spendy, you don't even want to think about Pelco.

 

Actually, I stand (somewhat) corrected: I just tested a couple Arecont cameras on a site using Chrome, and I can access their configuration interface. The picture is scrambled, but the configs work. If they're H.264 cameras, you can always pull the RTSP stream from them using VLC, so you can watch how your adjustments affect the image. However... Areconts are not cheap either.

[jasauders 0]

Well, that's a bummer. There's still new products being sold that are ie only? I remember running into this years ago where the system only supported internet explorer 6. Not 7 or anything else, 6 specifically. I'm sorry, but supporting internet explorer only is an instant fail. I'm finding a lot of cameras online citing they support most major browsers, but what I'm looking at may also be considered worthwhile by this forums/a more professional standard.

 

Are there no cheaper brands that, while maybe inferior to axis, at least have a functioning product that wasn't rebranded forty times with questionable origin? Or am I kind of stuck?

[Soundy 1]

Believe it or not, there are current cameras and low-end DVRs that require IE but don't work with IE9, too... common problem with a lot of offshore-made equipment.

 

Actually, it occurred to me in looking at another thread, you'll probably find some low-end, consumer-grade, non-megapixel IP cameras that will work... these would be things on about the same scale as your average webcam. Most of them probably won't support PoE. Look at "home networking" names like D-Link, TP-Link, Belkin, etc.

 

And BTW, I agree with you, IE-only really is a fail - it would be really nice to be able to pull up the configuration for cameras using my Android phone or tablet. Heck, I even used to use my old Windows Mobile 6 phone to configure IQ cameras, since the Java plugin is really only needed to display the live video - the configuration pages themselves don't need it.

[shockwave199 0]

If you run a stand alone analog or hybrid dvr with cameras, your choices open up considerably.

 

I have a list of items I'd like the camera to have. I'm aiming for one camera, which will monitor the driveway/ground-level deck/back door/car port all in 1 shot.

That's asking a lot of one camera. You might consider a ptz. You might cram all that into one view, but it's doubtful much more than your dead center shot will give you decent detail.

[Soundy 1]

I have a list of items I'd like the camera to have. I'm aiming for one camera, which will monitor the driveway/ground-level deck/back door/car port all in 1 shot.

That's asking a lot of one camera. You might consider a ptz. You might cram all that into one view, but it's doubtful much more than your dead center shot will give you decent detail.

Not for his price range.

[shockwave199 0]

Yeah well...somethings gotta give- either his price range or his expectations.

[jasauders 0]

Hmm, that's some food for thought. I suppose it's more likely for offshore brands to come with even more terrible GUIs, along with the dreaded requirement of Internet Explorer... I suppose sticking with something like Belkin or D-Link may offer a little more sensibility on the subject since, while low end, it'll at least be more of a name brand. I have a 640x480 indoor camera now by Foscam, and I really like it. It offers decent video quality. Sure, megapixel or higher would be nicer, but so would getting a raise at work.

 

I agree with you too... I think I'm going to have to re-work some electrical wires instead of worrying about POE. At first I was trying to think I wasn't asking for much, but perhaps I am.

 

The biggest bummer of all of this is that Ubiquiti AirCam is remarkably nice for the price, and Ubiquiti is a brand I've heard of quite a lot before (they came highly recommended for routers when I was router shopping). But the lack of infrared is kind of a bummer. It's listed as having decent night vision for not having IR, but I doubt it would offer enough visibility that I'd prefer to have. Perhaps it's time to start planning out an electrical line, since finding an outdoor IR camera seems to be a little easier than an outdoor POE camera... especially when you factor in a price cap...

 

That's asking a lot of one camera. You might consider a ptz. You might cram all that into one view, but it's doubtful much more than your dead center shot will give you decent detail.

 

It's hard to explain, but quite honestly PTZ won't offer much in this scenario. The driveway, car port, back door, and deck is all in one direct line, sort of like a tunnel. I'd like a PTZ, don't get me wrong, but I'd happily opt for a regular bullet camera and be decently happy with it as well. Between the features on the list in regard to things like IR, POE, etc., PTZ is just the one I'd drop off the list first.

 

Sometimes I wonder, how hard would it be to get the Ubiquiti AirCam (with no IR) and add some sort of functionality to it to enable night vision? I can only imagine it'd turn out bad, but eh.. fun thought.

 

Yeah well...somethings gotta give- either his price range or his expectations.

 

Well, let's have some fun with this. Let's say for a 640x480 or higher resolution, POE, IR, and outdoor capability, what would the cheapest (yet not offshore) camera that comes to mind? If it's something that's just that much more worthwhile to go for, I could wait and save a bit more. After all, it's just one camera, not 30 where the price could escalate thousands of dollars instantly.

[Soundy 1]

How about instead of worrying about IR (which is overrated and more often than not just a cheap workaround for a camera with crappy low-light performance), consider the area you're covering, and try a camera with better low-light capabilities? Or, you know, just add a motion-activated flood light or two, which will give you a better picture with ANY camera than IR will?

[shockwave199 0]

What do you want out of that one view- overall monitoring or ID detail of every location within that view? And how and where are you going to be monitoring- or monitoring at all? Or do you plan on just reviewing recorded footage after the fact once in a while or as needed? It strikes me as being an awful lot of work and consideration if all you want to do is point one camera for an overview. In your case, I would be inclined to get a quality four channel dvr, four good cameras, point them for excellent views of your locations, power up and there you have it. Depending on how important it is to get up and running quickly, you could be monitoring and recording with a system like that already.

 

Edit- ok, maybe not ALREADY- lol. But you know what I mean.

[jasauders 0]

How about instead of worrying about IR (which is overrated and more often than not just a cheap workaround for a camera with crappy low-light performance), consider the area you're covering, and try a camera with better low-light capabilities? Or, you know, just add a motion-activated flood light or two, which will give you a better picture with ANY camera than IR will?

 

Hmm, that's a good thought. You see, I'm not overly familiar with a lot of functionality and features of video recorders. My only experience with CCTV systems was with a very, VERY poor one at my last job, and that was all indoor cameras anyway. At one point, I also set up ZoneMinder on a spare Linux system at my parents when we were trying to find out what was eating their 18" long fish out of their pond. I suppose a flood light would be rather easy, as we already have two of them that point out to the yard. I assume, from an electrical standpoint, I could run a line right to one of them and chain the 3rd off of the other 2? I'll have to look into that more...

 

So, if that's the case, the Ubiquiti camera comes back on the radar with quite a pleasing list of features. That plus a spot light... hmm... do you thinks think that IR should be one of the first things I drop off the list? H.264, POE, 720p, that's pretty attractive for 110 bucks from a semi reputable company, no? I could throw a few bucks at a spot light and maybe be sitting pretty decent. Any further thoughts on this?

 

What do you want out of that one view- overall monitoring or ID detail of every location within that view? And how and where are you going to be monitoring- or monitoring at all? Or do you plan on just reviewing recorded footage after the fact once in a while or as needed? It strikes me as being an awful lot of work and consideration if all you want to do is point one camera for an overview. In your case, I would be inclined to get a quality four channel dvr, four good cameras, point them for excellent views of your locations, power up and there you have it. Depending on how important it is to get up and running quickly, you could be monitoring and recording with a system like that already.

 

The big reason I'd like to have some sort of surveillance is mostly because I do IT work on the side, so I have a lot of parts coming to the house. It'd just be nice to have some eyes on the door because there's times where I see higher dollar packages at the door that I had thought I'd have to sign for, but whatever. Plus I don't want to be naive either. I live in a decent area, but that doesn't take away from the fact that I don't want to be completely foolish either, ya know?

 

I'd almost definitely be using ZoneMinder, or some sort of Linux based software. I run all Linux gear at home and I have a server with some large hard disks that runs 247, so it'd be super nice to dump a software package on it and go to town with it, such as ZoneMinder. I'm not sure if you've used ZoneMinder, but ZM has some features in it I like, such as "alarms." If set to motion detect, it'll record each motion detected event in a different instance. One click and I'm watching the feedback from that instance. Likewise, the street is going to be in the shot as well. I can select on the screen which part to exclude from the motion detect.

 

I suppose I could get a multi camera system, but I'm feeling like that may be overkill. The thing I like about network based cameras and CCTV software like ZM is I can mix and match anything to it. I have a Foscam PTZ indoor camera, and I also have a TrendNet wireless camera that I use from time to time. They all link up to the same source and just kind of work. That way if I get 1 outdoor camera and I decide, oh man, I could use another, I can pick up another and that's that. I'm pretty confident one camera in the back will work, and if not, it'll at least be a good start.

 

I've also checked out TinyCam and IPCamViewer on my Android phone and it's worked well. So on top of the actual motion detected recording, I'll be able to watch live feeds whenever I tune in as well.

 

I appreciate the insight guys. I know I was likely walking into a more expensive situation with the features I was looking for. Thanks for the informative responses.

[shockwave199 0]

I'm not sure if you've used ZoneMinder, but ZM has some features in it I like, such as "alarms." If set to motion detect, it'll record each motion detected event in a different instance. One click and I'm watching the feedback from that instance. Likewise, the street is going to be in the shot as well. I can select on the screen which part to exclude from the motion detect.

I have not used ZM, but realize any decent dvr can do all that. I get where you're coming from and soundy will be of more help to you. I am the opposite mostly, when it comes to many things about recording tasks. I usually prefer stand alone units. They are designed to do one thing and do it well. For me with cctv, it was no contest- a stand alone system for the task. Anyway- good luck to you.

[jasauders 0]

I'm not sure if you've used ZoneMinder, but ZM has some features in it I like, such as "alarms." If set to motion detect, it'll record each motion detected event in a different instance. One click and I'm watching the feedback from that instance. Likewise, the street is going to be in the shot as well. I can select on the screen which part to exclude from the motion detect.

I have not used ZM, but realize any decent dvr can do all that. I get where you're coming from and soundy will be of more help to you. I am the opposite mostly, when it comes to many things about recording tasks. I usually prefer stand alone units. They are designed to do one thing and do it well. For me with cctv, it was no contest- a stand alone system for the task. Anyway- good luck to you.

 

I understand where you're coming from. I think my difference in approach is largely different because I have a lot of things in place that suggest network based solutions are optimal for me. I work in IT, so I have countless feet of Cat5 line I can run, along with POE adapters, switches, etc. Couple that with my server that's already running 247 and an array of large hard drives and... bingo bango. Plus it doesn't help that I'm an advocate of open source software and utilize it whenever possible.

 

The only thing I can't seem to find is whether or not the Ubiquiti AirDome is outdoor worthy. The AirCam is, but the AirDome has my interest as well... Hmm...

 

EDIT - you know, after posting this, I began giving it more thought. I should be more open minded to all available solutions. Not to be a pest, but do any DVRs come to mind that have 1-2 cameras that you'd recommend? Of course, I have to assume they'd be a little more costly, but hey - in time.

[bike_rider 0]

My Axis encoder does not require IE. Heck they even have a no-javascript interface. I'd expect the cameras to be the same. My Vivotek camera and encoder also do not require IE.

[jasauders 0]

bike_rider, you bringing up Vivotek reminded me that was a brand I had looked at. I ran into some issues trying to find an authorized seller of their products, and they didn't seem to reply to my email or my sales inquiry I sent in 3-4 days ago when I had first come across Vivotek. Where did you end up getting your Vivotek at? I found the IP8330, which seemed incredibly well packed for 365. But I'm not entirely sure how legit this web site is, and it was the only one that came up on Google Shopping: pcrush.com. I'm looking through their cameras now, trying to find the lowest end outdoor POE unit they have. So far, for what comes with the 8330, it's extremely attractive. I also spotted the 8332, which is a 1280x800 camera @ 30fps (the 8330 is 640x480 @ 60fps) located on TheNerds.net. Legit? Not sure... the hunt continues.

 

The other I considered, and this is still pushing the bar a bit but I'm warming up to the idea, is this Y-Cam: http://www.amazon.com/Y-cam-Network-Outdoor-MicroSD-Nightvision/dp/B0038K2A70/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1336351929&sr=1-2

 

I'd feel good ordering from Amazon since that link there is what came up when I clicked on the "online" sales from Y-Cam's web site. There again, incredibly well packed.

 

I started to think more about the lack of IR/use a floodlight idea, and while it's appealing, I just don't have the time to really allocate ripping apart the ceiling of the deck to add a new floodlight to the area where it would be most logical to go. We're renovating our bathroom, dining room, hallway, and a bedroom right now, and we're doing all the work ourselves... so time is incredibly limited. I have a hard time finding 15 minutes to sit down and breathe, let alone being able to get on my mountain bike to relieve some tension, which used to be a weekly thing, but it's been about 6 weeks since I've even been on the darn thing. By the time you factor in the cost of camera + cost of floodlight + cost of wiring + time, I'd just rather spend the extra cash on a camera that has some sort of IR to at least give me some degree of sight and be done with it.

[Soundy 1]

My Axis encoder does not require IE. Heck they even have a no-javascript interface. I'd expect the cameras to be the same. My Vivotek camera and encoder also do not require IE.

Interesting - I have a Vivotek cam here on my bench, Chrome just tells me I'm missing a plugin, but doesn't tell me what it is. I CAN get to the configuration pages, however, just no live video.

[jasauders 0]

My Axis encoder does not require IE. Heck they even have a no-javascript interface. I'd expect the cameras to be the same. My Vivotek camera and encoder also do not require IE.

Interesting - I have a Vivotek cam here on my bench, Chrome just tells me I'm missing a plugin, but doesn't tell me what it is. I CAN get to the configuration pages, however, just no live video.

 

Loooooooooks like Vivotek might be nixed off the list... However, do other web sites work with java on Chrome? Such as:

 

http://www.java.com/en/download/testjava.jsp

[shockwave199 0]

My Axis encoder does not require IE. Heck they even have a no-javascript interface. I'd expect the cameras to be the same. My Vivotek camera and encoder also do not require IE.

Interesting - I have a Vivotek cam here on my bench, Chrome just tells me I'm missing a plugin, but doesn't tell me what it is. I CAN get to the configuration pages, however, just no live video.

Only a guess mind you, but no harm in trying- search for and dl the IE tab plugin while in chrome. This is how I get web app in chrome to see live video for my dvr. When you type in the address it still won't show feed, but hitting the IE tab button will bring it up. Then I save that bookmark to the IE tab and it will open automatically when I go to that bookmark. Might not help you at all- just a stab in the dark.

[Soundy 1]

My Axis encoder does not require IE. Heck they even have a no-javascript interface. I'd expect the cameras to be the same. My Vivotek camera and encoder also do not require IE.

Interesting - I have a Vivotek cam here on my bench, Chrome just tells me I'm missing a plugin, but doesn't tell me what it is. I CAN get to the configuration pages, however, just no live video.

Only a guess mind you, but no harm in trying- search for and dl the IE tab plugin while in chrome. This is how I get web app in chrome to see live video for my dvr. When you type in the address it still won't show feed, but hitting the IE tab button will bring it up. Then I save that bookmark to the IE tab and it will open automatically when I go to that bookmark. Might not help you at all- just a stab in the dark.

Not that worried about it myself - I have IE Tab, but that won't do the OP any good in Linux.

[shockwave199 0]

Yeah I know, but when you mentioned scratching your head about the plugin, thought it might be worth mentioning.

[jasauders 0]

Not that worried about it myself - I have IE Tab, but that won't do the OP any good in Linux.

 

Not to sound like a software nazi, but if something is dead bolted to using IE only like that, I'll pass on using that product all together.

 

So with Vivotek fading from the potential list, I'm heavily considering the Y-Cam YCBL03... although considering its price tag of nearly 400, I almost feel like I could do a little better in the resolution department with another brand. But I'm also a newbie at this and fully accept I could easily be downright wrong with that. Anything else that's worth looking at that maybe I missed with Googling? I'm still doing some homework on some network house brands that was mentioned earlier, such as DLink, etc. I'm continually finding new products that seem to be half decent, which opens up a whole new array of choices... and often times, disappointment.

 

Also, does Foscam not have any POE outdoor cameras? I tried hard to dig one up and came up empty handed...

[Soundy 1]

Vivotek would still be usable, similar to Arecont, as you'd be able to access the configuration page in whatever browser, and watch the results via the RTSP stream in ZM, VLC, or whatever.

[jasauders 0]

Vivotek would still be usable, similar to Arecont, as you'd be able to access the configuration page in whatever browser, and watch the results via the RTSP stream in ZM, VLC, or whatever.

 

Well damn. I didn't realize VLC had capability like that. I suppose that's the open network stream option in the drop down menu that I saw 4000 times but never questioned.. hmm...

 

Overall, here's my plan of action.

 

POE and outdoor = requirements. If I go with POE and outdoor, I'll almost definitely go with the Ubiquiti AirCam since its feature set, price, etc. is very solid.

 

So the competition really is for POE, outdoor, IR cameras. I see nothing without IR that I'd consider over the AirCam, so my future research should include IR cameras and if the price/feature set ratio is good I'll go that route. I'd certainly prefer to have IR on the camera if at all possible, given the choice.

 

Vivotek 8330 - 375 (pcRush)

Y-Cam YCBL03 - 395 (Amazon)

 

Is there nothing else for the newly established price cap (which is in the definite red zone) of 400 bucks that has 640x480+, IR, POE, and outdoor protection from weather?

 

EDIT - How do you guys feel about POE splitters?

 

http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.tyconpower.com/products/images/POE-SPLT-S%20copy.jpg&sa=X&ei=xVKnT6WUOcWE6AGik-meBA&ved=0CAkQ8wc4GA&usg=AFQjCNG3oefyNT3g__HnjoAZYjBNrw_TXw

 

If I could cross POE off the list and just find an outdoor IR camera, I could easily do so without breaking the bank. My only concern with a POE splitter like what I linked above is making sure the actual physical plug size for the power port is exactly what is used on the camera...