Auto tracking in action- video

[shockwave199 0]

For those who are interested, I had the great opportunity of having a busy street out front today. This was a great time to observe how the auto tracking is doing, adjust settings, and watch some more. There are still tweaks to be done. I need to zoom match a bit tighter for closer shots, but that is a delicate balance to strike. As it is, it's not bad. It's keeping tabs on the action and zoom matching well- much more than I could ever do manually, that's for sure. I was pleased it was doing well too, considering it was a breezy day. The camera did not get distracted from branches or leaves. A work in progress, and night time has challenges too- different than daytime. But this is promising. For anyone considering an auto tracking camera, my situation is pretty tough to master. If it can behave well here, it can do so in even better conditions. And the better the cameras software, the easier it would be to dial in.

 

2DAIR69_vB4

[thewireguys 3]

I have used some of the best analytic based auto-tracking PTZ cameras on the market and they are nothing better then a fun toy to play with. In the beginning most of the kids where playing the the same area so the was easy to track but you also missed a lot action when the kid on the bike went down the side street. You also missed cars as they drove by. Nice video but auto tracking PTZ cameras are toys and require lots of luck to track the object of interest that you want them to.

[tomcctv 190]

another thing about auto-track is its not supposed to be used as a full feature of the camera you will be lucky if you get 3 months out of your camera before it gives up. not only the work the plastic gears are going through but also its always running at max power draw.

 

auto is only good if attached to alarm input either via sensor or from another camera (set as alarm) and it does its job when needed

[SEANHAWG 1]

Thought it did pretty decent for how many objects that were in the field of view. Pretty cool nonetheless.

[bike_rider 0]

another thing about auto-track is its not supposed to be used as a full feature of the camera you will be lucky if you get 3 months out of your camera before it gives up. not only the work the plastic gears are going through but also its always running at max power draw.

 

 

I guess that depends on the camera. I have an Pany PTZ that's been auto tracking for 4 years and it is doing just fine.

 

Even so, i agree that it can be of limited value if there are too many moving things in the image. I have to keep the trees trimmed or I get hours of video of the camera tracking the swating branches. OTOH, there have been a couple of times when the PTZ tracking somebody walking on the sidewalk has been useful.

 

I would never recommend PTZ today. It is much easier to get good coverage with megapixel cameras.

[shockwave199 0]

I have used some of the best analytic based auto-tracking PTZ cameras on the market and they are nothing better then a fun toy to play with. In the beginning most of the kids where playing the the same area so the was easy to track but you also missed a lot action when the kid on the bike went down the side street. You also missed cars as they drove by. Nice video but auto tracking PTZ cameras are toys and require lots of luck to track the object of interest that you want them to.

You were waiting all night to say that? How was your popcorn in the mean time? What if I had an MP camera in the same spot? What would it have gotten when the kids went out of frame down the other street? The big kid on the bike that was harassing the little kid in the pink car- what if he was actually beating the living crap of someone. What if it were ME and the WIFE getting an ass whopping and robbed out there by all of them. And then the big kid on the bike rides around the corner like he did with the other girl and hands off a gun or a knife or my wallet- which the camera tracked. And the car that passes by that is tracked down the street some was involved, stolen, and found ditched a mile away. What if my ptz had been parked on my car and missed all of it? How much of a toy would it be then? I'm not so much of a dick as to make a general statement that auto tracking is perfect, just like a dick would be to say it's a toy or your camera will break to someone trying to add something interesting to a forum. I'll let you all know if and when it does btw, so you can laugh and say I told you so. A few of you can't help but live up to my expectations and anyone visiting these forums can see it too, which is the biggest laugh of all.

 

You can put a serious crime caught to any of that footage and it tracked a lot of it. No toy to to me. Perfect? No. Lucky if you track the right thing? Yes. Increase your odds of tracking anything worth it? Hell yes. And that's where I see the feature being worth it over a ptz that can't auto track. I use the camera as support for my fixed cameras, not as one single solution for all. Even MP cameras- if you don't have something like a four camera 'ptz' arecont fixture, you'd better have full coverage with multiple cameras regardless of how well they see in one direction. I'm talking an analog ptz with auto tracking in a residential setting with a budget homeowners could probably swing. Not MP cameras. And for the life of me, I can't understand why the MP guys like to jump into analog threads and ****t on us all the time. Kinda reminds me of the big kid on the bike pushing the little kid in the car around in my footage. A dick showing poor form. Predictable, and unlikely to change.

 

[SEANHAWG 1]

You were waiting all night to say that? How was your popcorn in the mean time? What if I had an MP camera in the same spot? What would it have gotten when the kids went out of frame down the other street? The big kid on the bike that was harassing the little kid in the pink car- what if he was actually beating the living crap of someone. What if it were ME and the WIFE getting an ass whopping and robbed out there by all of them. And then the big kid on the bike rides around the corner like he did with the other girl and hands off a gun or a knife or my wallet- which the camera tracked. And the car that passes by that is tracked down the street some was involved, stolen, and found ditched a mile away. What if my ptz had been parked on my car and missed all of it? How much of a toy would it be then? I'm not so much of a dick as to make a general statement that auto tracking is perfect, just like a dick would be to say it's a toy or your camera will break to someone trying to add something interesting to a forum. I'll let you all know if and when it does btw, so you can laugh and say I told you so. A few of you can't help but live up to my expectations and anyone visiting these forums can see it too, which is the biggest laugh of all.

 

You can put a serious crime caught to any of that footage and it tracked a lot of it. No toy to to me. Perfect? No. Lucky if you track the right thing? Yes. Increase your odds of tracking anything worth it? Hell yes. And that's where I see the feature being worth it over a ptz that can't auto track. I use the camera as support for my fixed cameras, not as one single solution for all. Even MP cameras- if you don't have something like a four camera 'ptz' arecont fixture, you'd better have full coverage with multiple cameras regardless of how well they see in one direction. I'm talking an analog ptz with auto tracking in a residential setting with a budget homeowners could probably swing. Not MP cameras. And for the life of me, I can't understand why the MP guys like to jump into analog threads and ****t on us all the time. Kinda reminds me of the big kid on the bike pushing the little kid in the car around in my footage. A dick showing poor form. Predictable, and unlikely to change.

 

 

 

Ouch!

[nDAlk90 0]

..

Edited May 7, 2012 by Guest

[thewireguys 3]

I have used some of the best analytic based auto-tracking PTZ cameras on the market and they are nothing better then a fun toy to play with. In the beginning most of the kids where playing the the same area so the was easy to track but you also missed a lot action when the kid on the bike went down the side street. You also missed cars as they drove by. Nice video but auto tracking PTZ cameras are toys and require lots of luck to track the object of interest that you want them to.

You were waiting all night to say that? How was your popcorn in the mean time? What if I had an MP camera in the same spot? What would it have gotten when the kids went out of frame down the other street? The big kid on the bike that was harassing the little kid in the pink car- what if he was actually beating the living crap of someone. What if it were ME and the WIFE getting an ass whopping and robbed out there by all of them. And then the big kid on the bike rides around the corner like he did with the other girl and hands off a gun or a knife or my wallet- which the camera tracked. And the car that passes by that is tracked down the street some was involved, stolen, and found ditched a mile away. What if my ptz had been parked on my car and missed all of it? How much of a toy would it be then? I'm not so much of a dick as to make a general statement that auto tracking is perfect, just like a dick would be to say it's a toy or your camera will break to someone trying to add something interesting to a forum. I'll let you all know if and when it does btw, so you can laugh and say I told you so. A few of you can't help but live up to my expectations and anyone visiting these forums can see it too, which is the biggest laugh of all.

 

You can put a serious crime caught to any of that footage and it tracked a lot of it. No toy to to me. Perfect? No. Lucky if you track the right thing? Yes. Increase your odds of tracking anything worth it? Hell yes. And that's where I see the feature being worth it over a ptz that can't auto track. I use the camera as support for my fixed cameras, not as one single solution for all. Even MP cameras- if you don't have something like a four camera 'ptz' arecont fixture, you'd better have full coverage with multiple cameras regardless of how well they see in one direction. I'm talking an analog ptz with auto tracking in a residential setting with a budget homeowners could probably swing. Not MP cameras. And for the life of me, I can't understand why the MP guys like to jump into analog threads and ****t on us all the time. Kinda reminds me of the big kid on the bike pushing the little kid in the car around in my footage. A dick showing poor form. Predictable, and unlikely to change.

 

 

 

Wow I point out real world limitations of auto tracking PTZ cameras and you freak out. Correct me if I am wrong but I said NOTHING about analog cameras and other people pointed out the same thing but you wanna attack me saying I am bashing analog? I don't care if you have an auto tracking Gigapixel camera, without a tracking solution the is intelligent enough to track the bad guy (or guys) this system will not give you the results you need when you need them the most, FACT. I understand you have a budget and you found a system that works for you great. But over the last 14 years in the business every customer that I have dealt with that had a auto tracking PTZ camera complained that when they needed it the most it tracked the wrong object or nothing at all.

[shockwave199 0]

Wow I point out real world limitations of auto tracking PTZ cameras and you freak out. Correct me if I am wrong but I said NOTHING about analog cameras and other people pointed out the same thing but you wanna attack me saying I am bashing analog? I don't care if you have an auto tracking Gigapixel camera, without a tracking solution the is intelligent enough to track the bad guy (or guys) this system will not give you the results you need when you need them the most, FACT. I understand you have a budget and you found a system that works for you great. But over the last 14 years in the business every customer that I have dealt with that had a auto tracking PTZ camera complained that when they needed it the most it tracked the wrong object or nothing at all.

First off, you're right. I came on too strong and I apologize to all. You are also right that I have found a system that is working for me. I think it's fun and informative to share it, for better or for worse. But your comments are more fallout from another thread. What gets frustrating is when professionals such as yourself take almost any opportunity to point out that systems working for people are inferior compared- or aren't worth buying because they can't compare to MP cameras. Btw- that's blatantly obvious to most everyone without a constant reminder. It's much the same fodder as in many other forums, where there are people who use and subscribe to expensive gear and the others who for whatever reason can't and go with other options. The professionals will never stop pointing out some equipment can't compare, and the others will use the gear that can't compare with fine results. It's the nature of forums and how people operate. I lost sight of that and lashed out. Sorry for that.

 

As for auto tracking- say what you will. I still think it's more worth it to have than not, when considering an analog ptz camera. If it doesn't give me the shot I needed, I wouldn't have gotten it anyway. My odds only get better that I will get the shot if it can track it. The choice is up to the buyer. Maybe the demo will help decide. In all of youtube, this one video does more to demo auto tracking than any other- no matter what level of camera we're talking about. That's why I put it out there. Hope it helps someone.

 

[NotoriousBRK 0]

In all honesty that video does not show much value in auto-tracking.

 

1) It does not seem predictable in terms of what the camera does or does not key in on.

2) It appears to miss a lot of semi-dominant objects in its decision process

3) The constant motion of the camera creates significant motion blur, obscuring details

4) The relatively slow focus of the camera adds delay to getting a sharp image after it stops at a dwell point

5) The level of zoom does not appear to be enough to give much usable detail, it only provides a tighter relative shot.

 

In a real life scenario, I think you would find that the auto-tracking would have a greater probability of obliterating or missing detail/info, rather than enhancing the scene in any usable way. Go back through that video and try to find a crisp shot of any of your "suspects"...

 

Not sure what your background is, and it's not super important, but most of the people I've met who have tried auto-tracking PTZs in professional installs (eg: where they are only getting paid if the system works/continues to work as advertised) have decided the reality of the concept does not live up to the hype.

 

The only systems that *do* seem to approach a reasonable level of usability are ones where you have a spotter camera that can maintain a view/context of the entire scene, and then drive a secondary PTZ to the key points of activity.

[shockwave199 0]

As I mentioned, I have to fine tune zoom match to get closer shots. This was really the first time I could tweak things without looking like an idiot out there myself

 

1) It does not seem predictable in terms of what the camera does or does not key in on.

This I was interested in myself. At that set zoom match, it was managing everything as best it could- something I think it did well actually

 

2) It appears to miss a lot of semi-dominant objects in its decision process

I don't agree. That's a large area out there and it kept track of kids, walkers by, and some cars. I was very glad to see that not every car passing called it away from the primary subjects too

 

3) The constant motion of the camera creates significant motion blur, obscuring details

I noted this too. It was keeping track of a big stretch of activity though.

 

4) The relatively slow focus of the camera adds delay to getting a sharp image after it stops at a dwell point

This I noted too. I have it set on high speed focus, but that's all I can do. I still think the speed is quick enough to be useful

 

5) The level of zoom does not appear to be enough to give much usable detail, it only provides a tighter relative shot.

As mentioned, more zoom match adjusting needed

[thewireguys 3]

Shockwave mind explaining why you edited this video?

 

 

Here it jumps from 4:59:05 to 4:59:37

 

Here it jumps from 5:11:48 t0 5:32:41

 

Here it jumps from 5:33:24 t0 5:35:07

 

Here it jumps from 5:33:40 t0 5:05:17

[shockwave199 0]

You're kidding me right? I mean- you really have nothing better to do than knit pick a test video of analog auto tracking? Seriously man? I beginning to think taking back my apology was a mistake

 

I edited the footage in a couple of spots because,

 

- The movement stopped and nothing was worth watching

 

- I wanted to get some other events into a long vid as it is

 

- Because it runs long, it'll give you a headache watching it. A couple edits to other events was needed, imo.

 

Oh wait- you think I was hiding poor tracking? Yeah, right from the start in my vids about it, I've hidden the fact that it's not perfect. Yep, I wish to fool everyone into thinking it's perfect

 

Anything else? Apparently you wish to go on looking foolish a bit more.

[thewireguys 3]

I am talking about really world issues with auto-tracking PTZ cameras and you are editing videos to make them look better then they really are .

 

FYI I can't take credit for finding that the video was edited but I had the balls to show it..... If that person wants come forward let it up to them.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Guest

[SEANHAWG 1]

@ Shockwave: Dont worry, you cant win with the two in particular guys that are notorious for doing and saying things such as this. I have learned along time ago that they know everything and you know nothing. Their products are supreme and everyone else's are inferior. I have just learned to have fun with it.

[thewireguys 3]

Sean, Your killing me

[shockwave199 0]

Oh this guy is a gem! I LOVE the fact that I had his eyes glued to my auto tracking insanity for almost ten minutes- probably more than once! LOLOL! That is priceless.

 

This video is as real world as it gets folks, no matter what wiredude will have you think. I only cut a few spots for time- seriously. I have another 15 minutes of the madness that even I couldn't take weeding through. You want unreal world of auto tracking? Search for auto tracking ptz cameras on youtube and see what comes up. Mostly all very particular setups to make the tracking as easy as possible for the demo. Only MY vid will show you how a bunch of kids can drive the nose of a ptz camera insane and people on a real residential street! Not a parking lot or behind a building with one person in the shot. Real world.

 

But wiredude, would you scrub through my video once more and let me know some other facts?

 

[ak357 0]

Wooow what a discovery

Thewireguys has eagle eye

I did not see such f.... in his video

Thx you wireguy

[shockwave199 0]

You see, what these guys REALLY want is this thread to be locked so no one here can discover that this can actually work for you. After all, they spend a whole bunch of time mind-bending people into their one way of thinking here in the analog forums. So if this thread gets shut down because of this foolishness over a simple video about auto tracking of all things, that's a shame. I only do them to maybe help someone out to see the better or worse of some things I'm using. It helps people make desicions one way or the other. I'm far from knowing it all. I choose, buy, and make demo vids for the other clueless in the world so maybe they'll have a leg up for their choices. Try and ignore the mean spirited people who seek to undermine. They show themselves for who they really are to all who visit here and the only ones they end up undermining is themselves. And really, maybe forgive them. They've clearly been looking at their megapixles, and my auto tracking video, much too long.

 

[groovyman 0]

shockwave, I enjoyed watching the video. Thanks for posting it and showing some features of the camera.

[shockwave199 0]

Let me quote myself from a mere few posts up

 

I'm far from knowing it all. I choose, buy, and make demo vids for the other clueless in the world so maybe they'll have a leg up for their choices.

I know you're skimming what I'm saying and it's not sinking in. I get that. I'm not claiming I know everything about an auto tracking ptz. I'm only claiming my video is the most extensive, frankly nauseating 10 minutes of footage you're gonna find on youtube showing the thing trying to keep up with multiple people moving all over the place. I can't even watch it anymore- it gives me a headache just following it. But there is such a lack of video covering such a thing, I let most of it roll untouched, annoyingly so, for those who wish to watch the tennis match for themselves and see if it does or doesn't impress them. I'm sure there will be hundreds if not thousands of views that will mount up watching that and there will be people like you guys who say- garbage, joke, toy, no good. Fine fiddle- it's just for consumtion, that's all! Nothing was hidden or altered, but you thinking that actually shows that you think it's doing well for what I show. IT'S NOT PERFECT.

 

And this is all I'm gonna say on the matter. It's...just...a...video!

[thewireguys 3]

If it's just a video why are you getting so upset and calling people names?

[cctvpro69 0]

love it, thanks.

[tomcctv 190]

This video is as real world as it gets folks, no matter what wiredude will have you think. I only cut a few spots for time- seriously.

 

 

 

all that is being pointed out is auto tracker does not work. you video is only a few minurtes long but its taken over a hours worth of footage to make it.

 

 

 

i know ou have done a lot of work and you like the auto tracker. but auto tracker is not new. avermedia have it as standard on all there DVRs and it works but only because it needs alarm settings to activate it (it will auto track for a reason)

 

if you type warrenty for PTZ with auto tracker into google you will see just how bad auto tracking is.

 

axis 3 years on PTZ if used with auto tracker or motion detect the warrenty is down to 3 months its the same with pano - pelco .