Auto tracking in action- video

[shockwave199 0]

you video is only a few minurtes long but its taken over a hours worth of footage to make it.

You guys are thinking wrong with the edits, sorry burst your ah-ha moment. It's not that I had to cull through footage to find tracking that worked well to show. It all tracked the very same way that you see there. So much so, it wasn't necessary to show it tracking the same thing over and over. I think the point was made- it was bouncing around the kids. The whole 25 minutes or so it did the same thing. I edited because it would have been monotonous to keep watching that, not for trickery. If you care to look again, I mostly edited in some spots where the camera pulled back to preset 1, which as anyone who knows tracking understands that is what the camera will do when it loses targets or motion has stopped- defined by a delay time which I have set to 5 seconds. I cut to different things because the kids did something different to track, such as the girl running across screen to the side street. Or the walker going down the street. I wanted to show how the camera handled that and I needed to edit that in or it would have been a 20 minute wait for it to happen in real time- something no one would appreciate. I understand what you're saying tom about the stress tracking will put on the camera. I'm still adjusting and experimenting to make it behave as best it can and if I can, I'll set a schedule for it to activate. If I can't, I won't use it as much. And on windy days or nights, I would opt to shut it off and just monitor manually.

 

I'm not an auto tracking fan boy. I'm only experimenting and documenting the progress for others to see. That's why I got upset- I'm just working through it and you're all coming down on it like it's crap. It may be, I'm still working with it. But to me, I see potential in this demo where you won't see it at all. You're entitled. But regardless, besides a handful here there that think it's crap there will be MANY who appreciate the videos for a look at what this can and can't do. That's really all I'm doing.

[tong2029s 0]

Thank you for information

[nDAlk90 0]

I appreciate your video it shows the positives and negatives of PTZ's and auto tracking.

 

Here are positives:

 

1. If you see something happening across the street you can zoom in for detail.

2. You are able to get a general overview of whats happening on the street. (Enough to be able to call police if something is happening live)

3. You have an additional deterrence of having a large PTZ on your home.

 

There certainly are some negatives though:

 

1. Camera loses focus shifting from subjects.

2. Camera can also track people not needed in video.

3. Camera provided insufficient resolution to identify faces, clothing, etc.

 

Well... That is pretty objective. I think. Im not trying to sell you on MP like Mike is. I do see advantage with MP but the price is a little steep for residential.

 

shockwave199... I understand why you are getting upset.

 

Let me give you an example. You buy a standard wood frame home (most in U.S)

 

 

Next door neighbor builds a Red Iron steel home.

 

 

 

He comes over and sais to you. "You built with wood?" and then proceed to list all the advantage over his structure.

 

- Its non combustible.

- It uses non organic materials (Wont grow mold like wood)

- Its hurricane and tornado resistant more then wood.

- It has no interior load bearing walls ...

- Its...

 

You would get upset. You spent lots of time, effort, money for your home and someone is basically telling you its not good. My point is that's is sometimes difficult to swallow information objectively when you are involved in the process of whatever is the discussion. Plus the way information is perceived when read could be different then what is meant entirely by the poster.

 

Do you agree?

 

 

I'm not an auto tracking fan boy. I'm only experimenting and documenting the progress for others to see. That's why I got upset- I'm just working through it and you're all coming down on it like it's crap. It may be, I'm still working with it. But to me, I see potential in this demo where you won't see it at all. You're entitled. But regardless, besides a handful here there that think it's crap there will be MANY who appreciate the videos for a look at what this can and can't do. That's really all I'm doing.

[shockwave199 0]

He comes over and sais to you. "You built with wood?" and then proceed to list all the advantage over his structure.

 

- Its non combustible.

- It uses non organic materials (Wont grow mold like wood)

- Its hurricane and tornado resistant more then wood.

- It has no interior load bearing walls ...

- Its...

 

You would get upset. You spent lots of time, effort, money for your home and someone is basically telling you its not good. My point is that's is sometimes difficult to swallow information objectively when you are involved in the process of whatever is the discussion. Plus the way information is perceived when read could be different then what is meant entirely by the poster.

 

Do you agree?

 

You're over thinking it and you went through a lot of trouble to help me understand what- that I'm jealous and can't be objective about the early results of a test with auto tracking? Are you serious? I am not entertaining the difference between megapixel and a freakin auto tracking camera- YOU are! Spare me the effort of convincing me it sucks and wrapping it up in understanding- and refresh me on what you're deleted post said earlier and why you deleted it.

 

I'm finished right-fighting with this. To those who don't agree, duly noted. I need not be convinced to your way of thinking. To those who watched and thanked me- thank YOU for saying so. That's all I did a simple video for- the chance to see how a camera that has it works. I will make another video when I'm done tweaking the settings. I have it zooming tighter now but to be more consistent and not lose the target by zooming too tight, it needs a little more adjusting. This isn't easy to setup quickly. You need targets of every kind. I'm sure my neighbors are past wondering what I'm doing roaming around outside! They don't realize, it's beneficial to them as well. This camera behaves like a neighborhood watch for everyone. I can confidently say auto tracking is worth having, but it's not perfect. The best place to install it is out of site of bushes and shrubs close in front or just below it. They will distract it on windy days. Depending on your camera, focus may take a moment to catch up. You may or may not get the shot needed. But I've said all along- if it helps provide that one ID shot, it was worth the price of admission. Crimes have been solved with worse footage. This can help in a big way by simply pointing in the right direction where a camera that can't, won't. ANYTHING you can afford that increase the odds of documenting trouble is worth having in the tool box, in my opinion.

 

Over and out.

[dvarapala 0]

This video is as real world as it gets folks

 

all that is being pointed out is auto tracker does not work.

 

BINGO. I'm as interested in the next guy in cool technology, but there was nothing impressive to me in that video. That camera was all over the place - like a pack rat, it would drop one subject (shiny object) as soon as it noticed another one. And the constant motion served no good purpose, only managing to be annoying.

 

It's a fun toy to play with, but it's far from being ready for prime time, IMHO.

[fa chris 0]

It's a solid effort Shockwave, and sometimes it's funner to figure things out for yourself.

 

Everyones right on the negatives of auto tracking though. You gotta keep in mind with our comments the difference between the mindset of a hobbyist/DIYer and a professional. The professionals are always very critical because we gotta sell this stuff for a living, and if it doesn't live up to the expectations we get burned. Auto-tracking is something many here have in fact, been burned on, so yea it can touch on a nerve when someone is trying to use it.

 

The hobbyist/DIYer just wants something cool in their home, which is perfectly fine and which other guys like yourself will appreciate. I don't think I'd ever sell an analog to a customer ever again if I have the choice, but I'd still put them in my own home because price vs quality still hits the spot there, but our customers expect much more.

 

The best luck we've had with auto tracking is using video analytic's with thermal cameras watching the entire scene which move and zoom the PTZ to wherever the incident is at. Was. Not. Cheap. But oh man, it was so sexy.

[shockwave199 0]

This video is as real world as it gets folks

 

all that is being pointed out is auto tracker does not work.

 

BINGO. I'm as interested in the next guy in cool technology, but there was nothing impressive to me in that video. That camera was all over the place - like a pack rat, it would drop one subject (shiny object) as soon as it noticed another one. And the constant motion served no good purpose, only managing to be annoying.

 

It's a fun toy to play with, but it's far from being ready for prime time, IMHO.

I hear you, but this was an extreme case. And there's two ways to think about it overall. On one hand, if I had the zoom match set so max zoom was more like 10x instead of 7x which is what it was set at, it may have honed in more often on only one person and provided a tighter shot. But that's one person. Many of these auto trackers tout that honing ability to one object or person. I would rather have something closer to what I got in this setup, where it kept track of the whole rather than just one- mostly due to that fact that it zoom locked only so far in. Yes, that comes at the expense of the tight shots. But if that were a group of teens beating down a victim, I'd rather have it track the way it did and catch more activity rather than a narrow scope. The trick now is to get that 9-12x zoom and still achieve wide tracking by bouncing wide and tight, closer ID shots, not lose track of the targets because it zooms too tight, and a focus that can keep up. This camera offers settings of sensitivity, target size, zoom matching from 1-27x, and of course the preset scene it returns to. Not a ton a flexibility there. All choices of low, mid, high- small, medium, large. Nothing really user definable beyond that. It can also track while on a tour cycle which is very good, and it can call an alarm or aux- probably the most reliable of the whole thing. In most applications, I think a ptz that is setup to be called to a tripped zone is without question the better way to go. And then maybe track from there. In fact I think a parking lot or industrial setting would be the most reliable for auto tracking of this kind. In residential, it is a much bigger challenge. It's windy today. The bushes under the camera keep calling it down to the ground. The wind was a light breeze in my video and therefore it acted well. This morning the winds were breezy and it still acted well. This afternoon it got gusty and got distracted easily. I can overcome that by setting a two preset tour of the same exact position for 3 second dwell. That calls the camera back up quickly and keeps it locked better where I want it. All in all, not easy though.

 

Cool, toy, limited or whatever you think- I do see merit. If any one of those kids smashed my car window that day because I wasn't home, I'd have some very good footage- surely enough to prove it was that kid from four houses down. And I don't rely on only the ptz either- I have other fixed cameras

 

If I were in the market for a ptz and got a good price for one that at least included auto tracking, which I did, I'd opt to at least have it in there to use if I wanted. I'll make another quick video when I tweak the settings more.

[shockwave199 0]

This is the last demo of the auto tracking for now. All things considered, I like it still. I'd love it to zoom for tighter shots but it behaves best the way I have it set for now. I will probably schedule it to come on during the wee hours of the morning, and when I go out during the day. Two things unrelated- I'm getting some needed exercise, and I'm pretty impressed with how far my WAN covers out there!

 

I know everyone has weighed in on their thoughts about auto tracking. I figured I'd post the night vid on the subject and call it a day...or night.

 

 

t5twk206J0s

[Soundy 1]

What if it were ME and the WIFE getting an ass whopping and robbed out there by all of them. And then the big kid on the bike rides around the corner like he did with the other girl and hands off a gun or a knife or my wallet- which the camera tracked.

Just thinking out loud, but... what if the camera is about to zoom in on you and your wife getting an ass whooping across the street, but then locks in on a kid riding past on the near side of the street and follows him down and around the corner, completely missing the assault?

 

This is the big problem with auto-track: it has no way of prioritizing the actual IMPORTANCE of what it sees.

[shockwave199 0]

What if it were ME and the WIFE getting an ass whopping and robbed out there by all of them. And then the big kid on the bike rides around the corner like he did with the other girl and hands off a gun or a knife or my wallet- which the camera tracked.

Just thinking out loud, but... what if the camera is about to zoom in on you and your wife getting an ass whooping across the street, but then locks in on a kid riding past on the near side of the street and follows him down and around the corner, completely missing the assault?

 

This is the big problem with auto-track: it has no way of prioritizing the actual IMPORTANCE of what it sees.

What if it was looking the other way and never caught a glimpse at all? Of course it can happen as you suggest- and that's a valid point. How do you try and deal with that? With this camera, I can set auto tracking while it's doing a preset tour of the entire surrounding area. So if it gets distracted from something important, it'll at least return to a previous position and have a shot at grabbing the action again. I think of it in terms of 'tilting' the odds in my favor, that's all really. And that's when it's on. When it isn't, it's on a tour or scan and the odds slip further. When it's stationary, it becomes just another fixed camera unless I happen to be watching it and then I'm the auto tracker. This thing is beating the hell out of my previous fixed camera in that spot when trying to cover that whole area out there, that's for damn sure. In the end it's just a camera- fun, cool, and maybe more useful if you need it.

 

Yes YES shockwave does it again.

You are the BOSS of CCTV

You're killin me man!

[fa chris 0]

What if it was looking the other way and never caught a glimpse at all?

 

This is why I try to avoid using PTZ's at all anymore. They're never looking the right way and are only good for active surveillance with a security guard somewhere controlling it and a few specialized applications. With 180/360 degree cameras out now there's no need to have one constantly moving back and forth "monitoring" an area.

[shockwave199 0]

Oh I'd love that too, but then I have a mortgage to pay. Talk about a specialized application! DOH!

 

 

[thewireguys 3]

Oh I'd love that too, but then I have a mortgage to pay. Talk about a specialized application! DOH!ote]

 

When you look at the coverage you get from these cameras the pricing is not bad at all. 4 cameras, 4 licenses plus 4 times the labor where these cameras just one camera but give you the coverage of 4.

 

I have installed many of the 180 cameras and they are very useful when used in the correct applications. I even used one for a LPR setup and it worked very well.

 

Now with that being said for a home owner that is looking for a toy to play with they can be expensive. But it comes down to picking the right tool for the job.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Guest

[SEANHAWG 1]

Thats a juicy lookin camera right there.

[shockwave199 0]

Now with that being said for a home owner that is looking for a toy to play with they can be expensive.

That may be the understatement of the year. The cost is without question prohibitive for the average homeowner.

[thewireguys 3]

Sean those cameras are not as big as you would think.

 

Shock.... curious how much have you spent on you total system?

[ak357 0]

Now with that being said for a home owner that is looking for a toy to play with they can be expensive.

That may be the understatement of the year. The cost is without question prohibitive for the average homeowner.

 

Just curios

 

How do you define expensive

 

and How do you define average ?

[shockwave199 0]

Shock.... curious how much have you spent on you total system?

Ummmm- roughly 1,600. Sweat equity- priceless.

 

I think that arecont is cool too, btw. We had a rep come in where I work to show us them. I can't remember the prices, but they were at least 5k or more just for the camera...if I remember right. I think we were looking at a 4 camera surround. I thought they were awesome and I was licking my chops at the thought of maybe getting to play with THAT overnight! My employer however, shot it down because of the cost, and initial investment in a whole analog system just recently installed.

 

Just curios

 

How do you define expensive

 

and How do you define average ?

Expensive is that arecont. Average as in what- the average homeowner who's dabbling in their own system?

 

The average homeowner-

 

 

I think there would be very few typical residential installs that could really take advantage of a surround fixture like that.

 

Unless of course if you're-

 

 

Or-

 

 

Those guys have the money, the residences, and the need.

 

Edited May 16, 2012 by Guest

[ak357 0]

Arecont is about 2-3 times less then u think

[shockwave199 0]

FYI someone was SCREWING you. The Arecont 180 can be had for less then 2K. their are numerous options for free single channel VMS clients and if you have a old PC laying around you have a very cost effective solution

Good to know for future reference. If it went that way, I was gonna check into it here to get more info- such as that.

 

You mentioned the right tool for the job. Agreed. Right now this camera is the right tool for me. But I do have a tendency to move on to better things in time. Ya never know.

[Roger Smith 0]

Oh I'd love that too, but then I have a mortgage to pay. Talk about a specialized application! DOH!

 

 

Is that a space ship?