HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) At this point I've come to a somewhat uninformed conclusion that the best stuff is like this... Genetec Security Center for software VideoIQ for analytics Avigilon for cameras Edgecore or HP for PoE switches etc. Sound about right? How does Genetec Omnicast compare to ExacqVision on a server seat and channel basis? Also how about Avigilon? It seems to me the large number of "certified" Avigilon integrators hints that it's profitable software to sell and speaks nothing for the quality/reliability of it and if software history is any indication it's prob inferior to other offerings. Personally I don't care about the money I make reselling the software but I care about the QUALITY, RELIABILITY and SERVICE contract. I expect little to no margin on the software seats etc. I make my money deploying stuff PROPERLY and on the service etc. I'd be willing to even eat profit if it meant my customers had better software and I don't like the channel partner games played with business software and the "certification" thing where I have to pay the vendor via training to sell the bloody software. Sure I can understand this as a lot of integrators are non IT dolts... This stuff seems just like POS in terms of the integrator BS IMHO. At least we can see the software with most of the vendors in action on youtube etc. POS stuff like Logivision... good luck finding straight tech answers as it's all marketing BS like the Avigilon videos meant for non technical decision makers. That stuff really annoys the **** outta me! PS if you have to watch a marketing PR video with actors to decide on the software then you're not qualified to make the decision large organizations !!! DUH!!! PSS what software is rebranded? Avigilon looks like a hardware maker of cameras I bet they didn't even dev the software right or if they have it's a whitebox trip thus the channel partner proliferation. Edited May 12, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted May 12, 2012 The other video showing the player viewer app at the airport is also somewhat useless as it's not the main UI nor does is really share any feature of the NVR/VMS or setup. All it shows is the benefit of multi megapixel cams. Ok.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) The other video showing the player viewer app at the airport is also somewhat useless as it's not the main UI nor does is really share any feature of the NVR/VMS or setup. All it shows is the benefit of multi megapixel cams. Ok.... Sorry this video shows some use of the software but the person demoing it can't even be bothered to talk... lkokaY27qEM Here is a video of Genetec being used and explained. JhCLdPq0X_w It's PR in terms of the fancy voice hired and production values... BUT it explains technical stuff... This not only speaks for the PR firm hired for production BUT it also speaks to the mentality of Genetec right! Genetec and Exacq looks like the software/companies I'd do business with... Genetec's alpha channel UI in video window wins me over and tells me the devs are much more advanced dev with prob game/graphics dev background. Also checkout this 3D "Immersive Map" interface they have. Clearly the Genetec dev team are much much more skilled than others in the DVR/VMS software industry less those Eyesoft guys with their CUDA leveraged analytics. I'm amazed the only oufit I can find that is leveraging GPUs is those guys in England. Weird... as it's a natural for H.264 decode and analytics! nGK0d_iY8kg Genetec looks like it has a really nice iOS app as well. IybDI9gJmK4 Exacq also looks like it has decent iOS apps as well. 6B6MOBOtzS8 Both of these iOS examples of apps are not VNC/VPN Desktop sharing trickery but proper STAND ALONE APPLICATIONS. Edited May 12, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted May 12, 2012 The other video showing the player viewer app at the airport is also somewhat useless as it's not the main UI nor does is really share any feature of the NVR/VMS or setup. All it shows is the benefit of multi megapixel cams. Interesting.......Avigilon's player software is identical to the client software Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 The other video showing the player viewer app at the airport is also somewhat useless as it's not the main UI nor does is really share any feature of the NVR/VMS or setup. All it shows is the benefit of multi megapixel cams. Interesting.......Avigilon's player software is identical to the client software Avigilon is a hardware/camera manufacturer. I'd almost be willing to bet my left nut that software is a whitebox from someone else. It looks good and everything but I'm certain without even trying it that Genetec and Exacq are better. Exacq whiteboxes to other vendors BTW... It seems Genetec has a more advanced backend but the Exacq guys have really nice iOS devs and software. The cost of server and channels from Exacq was really impressive talking to the rep. I wonder if Genetec's pricing is in line with Exacq. It seems I'm now getting a handle on the software available. Now I need some serious education about cameras considering my somewhat idiocy of purchasing those UBNT cams. It's just the customer when I looked over the job was like all customers... camera here camera there camera here... ... they all think you need a good three to four times the cameras than what is really needed logically for the integration and with wide FOV multi megapixel one camera can do the work of many. LOL typical I bet working in this field... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted May 12, 2012 Let me know if you want a demo of a Vigil DVR/NVR - they're locally-made as well (Victoria, actually). We have a couple hundred of them in service, between Petro Canada in BC and Alberta, most local Essos, and all but one or two Cactus Clubs. And good for you, standing up to the Avigilon evangelizing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 You guys... It's even a PITA to get pricing on cameras. What online shop actually lists pricing and has a decent linecard so I can get an idea of what decent cameras cost these days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) At this point I've come to a somewhat uninformed conclusion that the best stuff is like this... Genetec Security Center for software VideoIQ for analytics Avigilon for cameras Edgecore for PoE switches etc. Sound about right? How does Genetec Omnicast compare to ExacqVision on a server seat and channel basis? Also how about Avigilon? It seems to me the large number of "certified" Avigilon integrators hints that it's profitable software to sell and speaks nothing for the quality/reliability of it and if software history is any indication it's prob inferior to other offerings. Personally I don't care about the money I make reselling the software but I care about the QUALITY, RELIABILITY and SERVICE contract. I expect little to no margin on the software seats etc. I make my money deploying stuff PROPERLY and on the service etc. I'd be willing to even eat profit if it meant my customers had better software and I don't like the channel partner games played with business software and the "certification" thing where I have to pay the vendor via training to sell the bloody software. Sure I can understand this as a lot of integrators are non IT dolts... With all do respect you have lots of research to do. No other solution on the market can match the integration level that Avigilon's VMS and cameras can plus Avigilon's support and warranty is the best I have worked with. Also there is no paid training with Avigilon its all free unlike Genetec, Axis and Exacq. If your looking at Genetec I would look a Axis for cameras. VideoIQ does video analytics but they only run on their cameras and encoders so at this point the only way to use third party cameras with them is if you use analog cameras. VideoIQ also works with Avigilon and Genetec. Edited May 12, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Avigilon is a hardware/camera manufacturer. I'd almost be willing to bet my left nut that software is a whitebox from someone else. It looks good and everything but I'm certain without even trying it that Genetec and Exacq are better. Exacq whiteboxes to other vendors BTW... It seems Genetec has a more advanced backend but the Exacq guys have really nice iOS devs and software. The cost of server and channels from Exacq was really impressive talking to the rep. I wonder if Genetec's pricing is in line with Exacq. Avigilon's software is developed in house along with all of their cameras which are all developed and manufactured in house. Pricing Genetec > Exacq If your looking for online pricing for Avigilon products your not gonna find it, online sales are not permitted. If you would like pricing contact a local dealer for a demo and pricing. Best of luck with your research.... Just remember don't believe everything you see in the flashy tube videos. Edited May 12, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cctvpro69 0 Posted May 12, 2012 Genetec looks great, best in the world so far! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 Thanks for all the responses guys! For cameras I'm now looking at these three Axis models. P3367 Q1602 Q1604 I've seen Q1604 on a PTZ vid on youtube. I take it that's a separate PTZ mechanism that's not controlled by the camera's SBC/firmare? Must require a secondary 802.11f run then right? Sorry for my ignorance. PS BTW those new Axis with HDR and better low light look great to me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted May 12, 2012 Sorry for my ignorance. You said it not me. You were very quick to throw Avigilon under the bus for no reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ssmith10pn 0 Posted May 12, 2012 Oh BTW, If you really want to learn about Avigilon with an open mind (Doubtful) http://avigilon.com/support/training/ They also have sales training modules and installer modules but require a partner login. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 Oh BTW,If you really want to learn about Avigilon with an open mind (Doubtful) http://avigilon.com/support/training/ They also have sales training modules and installer modules but require a partner login. Hey dude... I'm a stranger on the internet right. Why would you indirectly insult me !?! I'm open to everything and to suggest I don't have an open mind is somewhat INSULTING... DON'T YOU THINK! WTF Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Sorry for my ignorance. You said it not me. You were very quick to throw Avigilon under the bus for no reason. I've hardly thrown it under the bus and I have a good reason to do business with them as I'm about 20 miles from the factory and headquarters! I have not used the software but from what I can see both Genetec and ExacqVision APPEAR to have better software just scratching the surface. I take it the indirect insults and emotional responses are coming from Avigilon dealers right... So I'm supposed to believe your opinions are not BIASED ! WHAT EVER Edited May 12, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 Genetec looks great, best in the world so far! Is this an honest response or a lame attempt at being facetious? I've never deployed this stuff nor have CCTV expertise but this is the conclusion I come to with little research. #1 Genetec Security Center #2 ExacqVision #3 Avigilon #4 Milestone I'm sure each slot is debatable but the list of 4 seems on the money to me. Now I just need to know what cameras are decent for the money. Looking at the following Axis cams: P3367 Q1602 Q1604 and the M11 series for in-store isle monitoring etc for cost affective deployments. BTW do any of them leverage the power of a GPU for analytics and H-264 decoding with APIs like CUDA, OpenCL or DirectCompute? The only software I've seen that does this is Bikal Eyesoft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ak357 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Attention Avigilon dealers and lovers I would suggest that all of us stop promoting ,convincing let HIM to buy , to try and learn hard way like all of us done so far with our time and money and then we will talk ( may be ) Edited May 12, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Let me know if you want a demo of a Vigil DVR/NVR - they're locally-made as well (Victoria, actually). We have a couple hundred of them in service, between Petro Canada in BC and Alberta, most local Essos, and all but one or two Cactus Clubs. And good for you, standing up to the Avigilon evangelizing! Hey thanks Soundy for the offer and information! I very much appreciate it! Vigil uses what software? I'm a nerd that has a history of building custom PCs for one of the three tier one custom PC vendors. I couldn't bring myself to purchase an appliance like device. I have a server for this job already built and if you checkout my earlier post you'll see it's a real hotrod machine with a Lian Li hot swap HD system. I don't think any of them have a Z77 chipset 3770K offering ehh!!! PS if I get into this Vigil will be a COMPETITOR and ENEMY PSS is this Ownen Business Machines dealing these system? Who is the dealer? Edited May 12, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 I just checked that out... FANTASTIC old school frame grabber hybrid systems... FANTASTIC that's my competition! heheh uhh If I install systems it will be 100% IP with camera SBC encoding and PoE. Any existing cameras I'd YANK! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted May 12, 2012 Genetec looks great, best in the world so far! Is this an honest response or a lame attempt at being facetious? I've never deployed this stuff nor have CCTV expertise but this is the conclusion I come to with little research. #1 Genetec Security Center #2 ExacqVision #3 Avigilon #4 Milestone I'm sure each slot is debatable but the list of 4 seems on the money to me. Now I just need to know what cameras are decent for the money. Looking at the following Axis cams: P3367 Q1602 Q1604 and the M11 series for in-store isle monitoring etc for cost affective deployments. This thread started out with you asking about UBNT cameras for a friend and now your asking about solutions that support thousands of cameras Are you a tech savy friend that is looking to help out a friend or are you looking to become a dealer? Your ranking of VMS is interesting and all depends what this system is for. Genetec has great software if your deploying large systems or you want it to integrate with everything but your going to play for it. I don't have a lot of experience with Genetec but from what I have seen and the feed back from customers I get is it's not the most "user friendly" to use. Exacq is good (I used to sell a lot of it) but again it depends on what you want to do with this system. I stopped selling Exacq because I was having issues camera connect/disconnect and customers where complaining about searching video. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nDAlk90 0 Posted May 12, 2012 Let us know how you like Vigil. The only one who seems to praise Vigil is Soundy and off course he is outnumbered by the Avigilon dealers.... This forum seems to likes to push only few brands... "No competition please" should be slogan. PS if I get into this Vigil will be a COMPETITOR and ENEMY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) I'm doing it for a friend and also considering getting into this industry. Thanks for the info on Exacq camera connection issues. Can you share particulars like camera makes etc that had those issues? When you changed the software out for Avigilon the issues were solved? This could mean many things like cam firmware issue with Exacq that wasn't there with Avigilon thus it was a camera firmware issue not the NVR/VMS backend right... or it could be Exacq having issues... or it could even be poor structured wiring... I have a VERY EXPENSIVE JDSU tester that certifies and I find a LOT of idiots install the friggin cabling WRONG and terminate 8P8C screwy etc. or punchdown with the cutter blade orientation backwards nicking the conductor etc. It's systemic actually! PS you'd think people in these fields would be competent at crimping a bloody 8P8C properly....NOOO.... ROTFL Edited May 12, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 Let us know how you like Vigil. The only one who seems to praise Vigil is Soundy and off course he is outnumbered by the Avigilon dealers.... This forum seems to likes to push only few brands... "No competition please" should be slogan. PS if I get into this Vigil will be a COMPETITOR and ENEMY This is GREAT NEWS if it's subpar because that seems to be a big deployment in my region. Genetec with Axis would kick it's ass IMHO (especially with VideoIQ analytics) and This opinion is without using ANY of it or having ANY deployment experience... PS I have a good nose for BS ehh PSS I've actually eyeballed the gas station deployments using that stuff and wasn't every impressed AT ALL... YAY! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nDAlk90 0 Posted May 12, 2012 I'm not sure I would call it that. Having tried Avigilon VMS its not bad at all. Very easy to use. The problem is that when on a forum and you hear the same brand over and over again you begin having doubts about why they prefer Avigilon. Is it the profit or is it the funcionality? For example... Many like Axis from what I hear, not many want to sell it because there is supposedly little to be made on the equipment from them (low markup). Hence the reason its probably not pushed... And some members here like to push their VMS choice down your throat... PS I have a good nose for BS ehh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 I have no idea what the server seat and channel costs are for Genetec but it can't be that far from Exacq can it! Also considering the software pricing unless I cared about PROFIT on selling the software, and I don't, and the cost of cameras I personally feel deciding on NVR/VMS based on pricing is STUPID... STUPID considering the costs of the actually IP cameras right! duh! Like one decent megapixel cam is the cost of the software seat right! Doesn't make any logical sense to me to decide based on server soft pricing... Not in the channel counts I'd deploy... Not at all! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
