thewireguys 3 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) I'm doing it for a friend and also considering getting into this industry. Thanks for the info on Exacq camera connection issues. Can you share particulars like camera makes etc that had those issues? When you changed the software out for Avigilon the issues were solved? This could mean many things like cam firmware issue with Exacq that wasn't there with Avigilon thus it was a camera firmware issue not the NVR/VMS backend right... or it could be Exacq having issues... or it could even be poor structured wiring... I have a VERY EXPENSIVE JDSU tester that certifies and I find a LOT of idiots install the friggin cabling WRONG and terminate 8P8C screwy etc. or punchdown with the cutter blade orientation backwards nicking the conductor etc. It's systemic actually! PS you'd think people in these fields would be competent at crimping a bloody 8P8C properly....NOOO.... ROTFL To answer to these questions you need experience installing many difference systems and spending tens of thousands dollars on gear to find out what works without having someone pulling the levers. Edited May 12, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) ... the same brand over and over again you begin having doubts about why they prefer Avigilon. Is it the profit or is it the funcionality? For example... Many like Axis from what I hear, not many want to sell it because there is supposedly little to be made on the equipment from them (low markup). Hence the reason its probably not pushed... And some members here like to push their VMS choice down your throat... PS I have a good nose for BS ehh 100% on the money! Fantastic post! Can I friend you!?! lol I'll tell ya because I know these channel partner games etc and what motivates POS and CCTV resellers. 100% the decision is MARGIN on the cameras and software... I am the ANTITHESIS of this brother! I make my money on the QUALITY of integration, my structured wiring perfection with thin wall conduit and JDSU verification and certification. My IT skills and expertise with IP networks and service and support. Screw margins on cams and backend soft man! And WTF would anyone care about a "hybrid"! WTF would I use a legacy cam on a new deployment... YANK THAT ANTIQUATED GARBAGE PS PoE ALONE is enough reason to yank that oldschool CRAP Edited May 12, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) I'm doing it for a friend and also considering getting into this industry. Thanks for the info on Exacq camera connection issues. Can you share particulars like camera makes etc that had those issues? When you changed the software out for Avigilon the issues were solved? This could mean many things like cam firmware issue with Exacq that wasn't there with Avigilon thus it was a camera firmware issue not the NVR/VMS backend right... or it could be Exacq having issues... or it could even be poor structured wiring... I have a VERY EXPENSIVE JDSU tester that certifies and I find a LOT of idiots install the friggin cabling WRONG and terminate 8P8C screwy etc. or punchdown with the cutter blade orientation backwards nicking the conductor etc. It's systemic actually! PS you'd think people in these fields would be competent at crimping a bloody 8P8C properly....NOOO.... ROTFL To answer to these questions you need experience installing many difference systems and spending tens of thousands dollars on gear to find out what works without having someone pulling the levers. Or a guy like me finds someone that knows all that stuff and is willing to share and not use this forum to try to sell crap to people that aren't even in their region/area. At this point for cameras I'm back to what I always thought was the best brand, Axis! As for software it's really for my region two choices, Genetec or Exacq. I don't f around ehh so I'll prob order a good 5k worth of **** to run in my lab for testing. Is there not a trade organization or a pay website that actually reviews this stuff PROPERLY AND UNBIASED ! Edited May 12, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nDAlk90 0 Posted May 12, 2012 Boy do you take it to extreme... What if they already have some analog cameras deployed and don't want to have budget to replace? What about some areas like elevator, broom closet, etc. Do they need MP for those rooms? Its not garbage if its acceptable to the client... IMHO [And WTF would anyone care about a "hybrid"! WTF would I use a legacy cam on a new deployment... YANK THAT ANTIQUATED GARBAGE PS PoE ALONE is enough reason to yank that oldschool CRAP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Boy do you take it to extreme... What if they already have some analog cameras deployed and don't want to have budget to replace? What about some areas like elevator, broom closet, etc. Do they need MP for those rooms? Its not garbage if its acceptable to the client... IMHO [And WTF would anyone care about a "hybrid"! WTF would I use a legacy cam on a new deployment... YANK THAT ANTIQUATED GARBAGE PS PoE ALONE is enough reason to yank that oldschool CRAP Come on man what's an M11 or M10 go for... Under $250 for the M10 right... That's LESS than the labour to hookup the old system and get a frame grabber for god's sake! Doesn't make any sense what so ever to me... Yes I am extreme when it comes to DOING IT PROPERLY and in a cost affective way. Anyone that claims adding a frame grabber and using legacy analog cam is cheaper than simply yanking it and replacing with M10 for example is full of BS and is looking to make labour $$$ f'ing around with that old gear and cabling BS. PS most of the time it's LAZYNESS not willing to re-run the necessary structured wiring IMHO! Edited May 13, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted May 12, 2012 I have one final question for you... Who is your target customer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) I have one final question for you... Who is your target customer? Rich cat homes and small business. I'm unconventional compared to most in my thinking. For example I figure analytics makes a lot of sense for SMALL DEPLOYMENTS. I bet you think the opposite right... Well dude... when the monitoring is UNATTENDED as it is in most small business or home deployments doesn't it make sense to automate it! Being oldschool and screwing around with hybrid legacy frame capture card BS to integrate into existing legacy installs is a way to make extra $$$ on labour right... and I'm sure old schoolers do it for posterity/reminiscing sake etc. Plus I bet a lot of them don't know jack **** about IT other than their weekend training sessions or vendor conventions etc. Edited May 13, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nDAlk90 0 Posted May 12, 2012 OK so they want a camera in the elevator that's vandal proof you are going to sell them an Axis M10? Boy do you take it to extreme... Come on man what's an M11 or M10 go for... Under $250 for the M10 right... That's LESS than the labour to hookup the old system and get a frame grabber for god's sake! Doesn't make any sense what so ever to me... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted May 12, 2012 I have one final question for you... Who is your target customer? Rich cat homes and small business. I can't wait till you see Genetec's pricing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) OK so they want a camera in the elevator that's vandal proof you are going to sell them an Axis M10? Boy do you take it to extreme... Come on man what's an M11 or M10 go for... Under $250 for the M10 right... That's LESS than the labour to hookup the old system and get a frame grabber for god's sake! Doesn't make any sense what so ever to me... Vandal proof housings from mainland China are available and CHEAP. BTW what does legacy analog cameras have to do with elevator deployments anyway!?! You'd think a UBNT wireless AP would make sense for that kinda thing as I'm sure you can only pull power into the elevator right? I'd stick two APs like Nanostations on the top and/or bottom of the elevator shaft then I'd use a cheap M10, heck why not it has a light and two way audio, and I'd stick it into a cheap mainland housing. Done deal. Edited May 13, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) I have one final question for you... Who is your target customer? Rich cat homes and small business. I can't wait till you see Genetec's pricing Why not just share round about pricing with me on this forum now ehh!?! You guys behave like point of sales guys beating around the bush etc with no straight answers... pushing your linecards and other stuff with no forthright answers and talk reminiscent of a politician interview on TV. Yup I'm 100% not going to use Avigilon due to these kinda channel BS and everyone parroting it due to margins they make on the software and no real public info on pricing. I have to be a partner to even buy it... but I guess that's how all three I'm looking at market their product. I guess to get that I gotta pay the outfit with the testing website 30 bucks a month ehh for access to real no BS info. Why can't you guys just be honest with people ehh! Dude I'm not in your area down in the states and I'm no competition to you! I guess pricing can't be made public even if your not a vendor for said software? Not even willing to share a roundabout idea of pricing ehh thewireguys? Even via PM? Edited May 13, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
groovyman 0 Posted May 12, 2012 I can't resist..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thewireguys 3 Posted May 12, 2012 I am not a Genetec Dealer and your not a Genetec Dealer and just like Avigilon posting pricing on the web is forbidden. Your making assumptions about lots of things that you admittedly know nothing about. I am done here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 I am not a Genetec Dealer and your not a Genetec Dealer and just like Avigilon posting pricing on the web is forbidden. Your making assumptions about lots of things that you admittedly know nothing about. I am done here. WOW sorry dude! I do appreciate your input! Perhaps you can correct me on my wrong assumptions? And sorry for my tone with everyone it's just I right away got the same vibe I've had with point of sale integrators and dealing with them in the past. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) xellby here is a search for camara housing at alibaba http://www.alibaba.com/CCTV-Camera-Housing_pid301107 As you can see you can get them rather cheaply as in under $20 bucks for an aluminum unit with IR illumination and IP66 ratings and even a heater! I have to say something that instantly occured to me regarding outdoor domes. Every design I've seen will have water droplets when it rains. Don't any of the manufacturers have a brain and have a chevron shaped top cover to divert the water so it doesn't collect at the dome bottom... RETARDED Here is a hack an Axis user did http://custforum.axis.com/viewtopic.php?p=5732 I can see a mechanical design change that could prevent that issue so easily I'm amazed manufacturers haven't thought of it. HINT you ever see those Comb Morion Military helmets !?! I'm also curious what type of HD arrays you guys use. My current server has a Crucial SSD for OS and a 2TB Seagate that I can get more drives and RAID, JBOD etc. Four WD RE4s at 3TB would be a great choice no? What RAID level or JBOD would you guys use? PS I can instantly think of a mechanical utility patent to fix droplets on domes that would make $$$ and I haven't even got started... Edited May 13, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) edit Edited May 13, 2012 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 13, 2012 hahah yup they are smart in Richmond ehh... Just place a hat on it with larger diameter! DOH! What's with Axis not thinking mechanically regarding water droplet issues... Dumb! hmm... I gotta visit these guys as they clearly make the best cams in the biz ehh! I can't believe they even do PCB fab and SMT laydown in Richmond. Clearly they care about doing it all inhouse! VERY VERY IMPRESSIVE Avigilon! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted May 13, 2012 Let me know if you want a demo of a Vigil DVR/NVR - they're locally-made as well (Victoria, actually). We have a couple hundred of them in service, between Petro Canada in BC and Alberta, most local Essos, and all but one or two Cactus Clubs. And good for you, standing up to the Avigilon evangelizing! Hey thanks Soundy for the offer and information! I very much appreciate it! Vigil uses what software? The Vigil software is developed in-house by Camacc Systems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 13, 2012 Let me know if you want a demo of a Vigil DVR/NVR - they're locally-made as well (Victoria, actually). We have a couple hundred of them in service, between Petro Canada in BC and Alberta, most local Essos, and all but one or two Cactus Clubs. And good for you, standing up to the Avigilon evangelizing! Hey thanks Soundy for the offer and information! I very much appreciate it! Vigil uses what software? The Vigil software is developed in-house by Camacc Systems. No whitebox? Interesting... you guys worked on that in Vic? I have some old friends in dev in vic at ACD from a million years ago. Also Media Magic and some other game dev friends that are now at Rockstar and Valve with whom I haven't touched base with in a million years. Another old friend that did POS... not sure what he's doing now... could be NVR/VMS dev even LOL! It's a bloody small world ehh! Do you guys have a "Beyonder" in the house? Sorry for the other comment I was only needling ya guys ehh Also I should be more formal and colloquial in my language use. Sorry about that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted May 13, 2012 I'm also curious what type of HD arrays you guys use. My current server has a Crucial SSD for OS and a 2TB Seagate that I can get more drives and RAID, JBOD etc. Four WD RE4s at 3TB would be a great choice no? What RAID level or JBOD would you guys use? We've been using a variety of RAID units from Enhance Tech, Promise and QNAP for the Cactus Clubs, most of them using RAID6+dedicated spare. The Vigils are set to use the RAID volume as primary storage, while the internal drive that comes with the DVR is set as an "alternative" drive that the system will use if the primary storage is unavailable. This means that if the DVR should fail and need to be replaced or rebuilt, the data all stays onsite - the new DVR can simply be plugged in, and the search database rebuilt with the existing data. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soundy 1 Posted May 13, 2012 Vigil uses what software? The Vigil software is developed in-house by Camacc Systems. Interesting... you guys worked on that in Vic? *I* don't. I don't work for Camacc/3xLogic. I work with a separate integrator; we just use and sell their systems... among others, of course, but Vigil is the platform of choice for our major customers. It's a bloody small world ehh! Do you guys have a "Beyonder" in the house? Now that name sounds familiar... from the old BBS days. Couldn't tell you if he works at Camacc, although I know of at least one other old-school modemmer that does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 13, 2012 *I* don't. I don't work for Camacc/3xLogic. I work with a separate integrator; we just use and sell their systems... among others, of course, but Vigil is the platform of choice for our major customers. It's a bloody small world ehh! Do you guys have a "Beyonder" in the house? Now that name sounds familiar... from the old BBS days. Couldn't tell you if he works at Camacc, although I know of at least one other old-school modemmer that does. He was part of the crowd that hung out at the Underground Onramp Internet Cafe under the Douglas Hotel. Did you ever play Quake there back in the day? That's where the famous MikeJ and worldcraft (tools that made HL for Valve) Ben something developed... I always forget his last name LOL and a bunch of others that went into the game dev business owhh yeah and the PMS female clan featured in Wired. MikeJ lost to thresh for John's Ferrari in Mesquite. Man that was YEARS ago now! Gotta be around 98-99 ish. OMG that's almost FIFTEEN YEARS AGO! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HiroPro 0 Posted May 13, 2012 Well I've been looking at cameras and it seems ACTi simply can't be beat on a price/performace ratio. Am I wrong here? They also seem to have sound mechanical design and great feature sets. You get a lot more for your $$$ than Axis that's for sure. Dam I wish I knew about those before ordering that UBNT stuff. I do though have a possible sale for it. A friend that runs a small store. That would be a great cheap solution with Blue Iris and I bet he jumps on it. So I can recover the $800 bucks spent on that stuff. I'm into the customer about $1500 bones on the server box. I'm thinking server seat with channels is gunna be just under a grand for this guy Exacq or Genetek. Now I just need a front entrance cam and two others to cover the yard. What do you guys think of the HDR features some new gen cameras have? Worth it? What do you guys think of the ACTi TCM-1231 ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
groovyman 0 Posted May 13, 2012 Dam I wish I knew about those before ordering that UBNT stuff. I do though have a possible sale for it. A friend that runs a small store. That would be a great cheap solution with Blue Iris and I bet he jumps on it. So I can recover the $800 bucks spent on that stuff. Really. Hmmmm, pawning your mistake on someone else - a friend no less. You're not going to sell him the proper equipment for his environment? You're going to sell him your mistake so you can recover your $800? You're not so high and mighty afterall, are ya.....ehh. Just saying..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
