New setup for small shop. Where to position and what camera?

[Integraoligist 0]

Hey all,

Below is a pic of our new sandwich shop... the 4 red items are the camera positions I was thinking...

 

1. Looking at stay under $1k for the cameras (would like wired IP cameras which I can attach to a non used PC I already have here or DVR system, whichever you suggest. I also assume Dome cameras would be best so that no one knows which way the cameras are facing?) which cameras should I go with and what size lenses?

 

2. How is the positioning of the cameras? Should I move any of them or add another but still stay under the $1k?

 

The shop has 10' high drop ceiling so install will be a breeze. No need for outdoor cameras, landlord already has them installed for the parking lot.

 

Thanks for the help all!

[groovyman 0]

I'm not going to speak directly to the hardware, but can give some positioning advice.

 

If you're using MP cameras I think your positioning is fine, except your missing the area where sandwiches are made for the customer. I've done alot of work in sandwich shops very similar to your layout and something many owners want to see is what's being prepared and what the customer is being charged.

 

With this flow it appears the customer orders first and pays last. I've caught people preparing $8 sandwiches, ringing in $5 sandwiches, but still charging the customer $8 and keep the difference. I also see employees ring in a drink, chips, cookies, etc. instead of the sandwich and keep $5-$8 per sale.

 

Along with having a camera on the sandwich prep area I would also consider capturing POS data from the POS system. What type of POS system do you have? This will determine how the data can be captured.

 

Lastly, you may also want to consider having a camera on the hallway leading to the bathroom. That hallway is a huge blind spot and it appears that the soda fountain will be located there. Good place for something to spill and someone slipping. As luck will have it, if something happens it will be in the area that doesn't have coverage.

[Soundy 1]

You'll have a tough time finding four IP cams for under $1000, but for a good start, you could check the banner ad to the left of this, showing a little 2MP dome...

 

You should also consider some sort of WDR camera with a tight shot on the front door - will add a little more to the cost, but that that does is give you a detailed shot of everyone coming through the door. Alternatively, you can look at a height-strip camera to go beside the door to catch faces of people leaving.

 

Lastly, you may also want to consider having a camera on the hallway leading to the bathroom. That hallway is a huge blind spot and it appears that the soda fountain will be located there. Good place for something to spill and someone slipping. As luck will have it, if something happens it will be in the area that doesn't have coverage.

This is a good point: people mostly think about cameras to protect against theft and loss... but liability is important too. Someone slips and falls on a spill, they could sue, claiming the store should have cleaned it up... if the camera shows they spilled it their own dumb selves, then turned around and slipped on it right away, you're in the clear.

[thewireguys 3]

This is a good point: people mostly think about cameras to protect against theft and loss... but liability is important too. Someone slips and falls on a spill, they could sue, claiming the store should have cleaned it up... if the camera shows they spilled it their own dumb selves, then turned around and slipped on it right away, you're in the clear.

 

Totally agree. In this day in age you have a much greater chance if getting sued for slip in fall then getting robbed. We just completed the 30,000 sq/ft night club/event center and the new manager told me it expects to get sued once a week

 

1) Liability claims

 

2) employed theft

 

3) hold ups

 

Also anther great location for ID shots would be if you had a large menu on the walk where people have to look at to order. Place the camera next to the sign looking out at the customers reading the signs. Also depending on the location of the sign and the resolution of the camera you can cover a lot more.

[ssmith10pn 0]

The fast food joints I have done are very big on Point of Sale data being integrated into the video.

 

Subway has taken it a step further and is using some new analitics to see what type of person purchases what for marketing purposes.

[groovyman 0]

Subway has taken it a step further and is using some new analitics to see what type of person purchases what for marketing purposes.

Have you seen the system? I have and it's pretty cool. There's so much data and reporting it can make your head spin.

 

I don't think the intent is to see what type of person is purchasing what. I think it's to collect the sales data and alert the store owner to when possible "shortages" are happening. Many different kinds of email and text alerts can be configured and the data can be presented in many different ways. The owner could then click on a link and go straight to video to review what happened.

 

One drawback to their new surveillance system is that it doesn't support IP cams, but I believe they're working on it. In most stores this doesn't really matter though as they're typically around 1200 sq ft and analog does just fine when placed properly.

[thewireguys 3]

The fast food joints I have done are very big on Point of Sale data being integrated into the video.

 

Subway has taken it a step further and is using some new analitics to see what type of person purchases what for marketing purposes.

 

Are they rolling this out to all stores? Every Subway that I have been at in my area has a different system. I have not seen any of the back end stuff but every store has a mix match of cameras. ADT kit systems and lots of no name lip stick cameras and no name domes. Do you know what software they are using?

[groovyman 0]

The fast food joints I have done are very big on Point of Sale data being integrated into the video.

 

Subway has taken it a step further and is using some new analitics to see what type of person purchases what for marketing purposes.

 

Are they rolling this out to all stores? Every Subway that I have been at in my area has a different system. I have not seen any of the back end stuff but every store has a mix match of cameras. ADT kit systems and lots of no name lip stick cameras and no name domes. Do you know what software they are using?

No, it's not being rolled out to all stores, but it's available to all store owners should they choose to purchase it. Although most equipment needs to be specific makes & models, surveillance is not mandatory and the store owner can install whatever they want.

 

These new DVRs are PC based with either Geovision or Hikvision cards. The dvr/analytical software was developed by these guys: http://ezuniverse.com/

[ssmith10pn 0]

Have you seen the system? I have and it's pretty cool. There's so much data and reporting it can make your head spin.

 

No but a close friend is the project manager for the rollout.

[buellwinkle 0]

4 cameras for under $1,000 is doable. Check out the OpenEye 1080P domes. The CM-610 can be had for $200 if you scour the internet. Add a 4 port PoE switch from Trendnet for $40, some NVR software and it's doable. This camera does not have any illuminators so it works with available light only. So at night, if you want it for security, keep some lights on.

[Soundy 1]

4 cameras for under $1,000 is doable. Check out the OpenEye 1080P domes. The CM-610 can be had for $200 if you scour the internet. Add a 4 port PoE switch from Trendnet for $40, some NVR software and it's doable. This camera does not have any illuminators so it works with available light only. So at night, if you want it for security, keep some lights on.

The Dahua ESIP-MP2-DM1 has similar specs (does full 30fps@1080p, where the OpenEye does only 15), lists at $199, no scouring needed... note the banner ad to the left of the page

[Integraoligist 0]

Thank you everyone for all the help!

I'm looking at the OpenEye and the Dahua now... the Dahua has a fixed 3.6mm lens, while the OpenEye has a choice of fixed lenses at F1.5 Fixed (2.8mm, 6mm & 16mm Optional).

 

Was watching the videos on the Dahua and the lens looks like it would work for all the positions in my shop, correct?

 

I would also rather use the existing PC that I have there already instead of a NVR, but when using the supplied PC software (for either cameras, the OpenEye of Dahua) will using more then 4 cameras cut down the quality to 720p, and if more then 8 cameras, down to D1? I'm asking this because the specs for the NVRs say that this is what they do. I'm looking to use all the cameras with motion detection too so even running at 1080p all the time it wont eat-up my HDD space.

 

Cameras with nightvision are not needed... even when closed there are 2-3 lights on for security, and if the power goes out there are 3 battery powered security lights that come on.

 

For $200 ea. and no NVR i can grab an extra camera totaling 5... let me rework my positioning as per your suggestions.

[Integraoligist 0]

How about this for placement? The camera over the POS will obviously be pointed downward pretty good so I'm not sure how much of an angle I'll be able to get on the prep station, but the camera at the other end should catch it pretty good?

 

The distance for the hall camera is not to far away is it?

 

And Soundy, where did you find that height strip camera? I'm guessing the supplied software for the Dahua does not have facial recognition, but the software that comes with the height strip does?

 

Thanks again all!

[buellwinkle 0]

4 cameras for under $1,000 is doable. Check out the OpenEye 1080P domes. The CM-610 can be had for $200 if you scour the internet. Add a 4 port PoE switch from Trendnet for $40, some NVR software and it's doable. This camera does not have any illuminators so it works with available light only. So at night, if you want it for security, keep some lights on.

The Dahua ESIP-MP2-DM1 has similar specs (does full 30fps@1080p, where the OpenEye does only 15), lists at $199, no scouring needed... note the banner ad to the left of the page

 

Sorry, didn't know our job is to recommend solutions that advertise on this site, my apologies. I just never seen or used an Dahua camera but have seen/used an OpenEye CM-610, so I have to recommend what I know. What's been you direct experience with the Dahua camera?

[Integraoligist 0]

How about this for placement? The camera over the POS will obviously be pointed downward pretty good so I'm not sure how much of an angle I'll be able to get on the prep station, but the camera at the other end should catch it pretty good?

 

The distance for the hall camera is not to far away is it?

 

And Soundy, where did you find that height strip camera? I'm guessing the supplied software for the Dahua does not have facial recognition, but the software that comes with the height strip does?

 

Thanks again all!

highjacking the thread. common maaaaaaaaaan

 

Ok so I got a hold of Dahua and asked them a few questions about there cameras... One thing the supplied software does NOT do is, if I've got all the cameras recording on a local PC (which the software would be running) then I am NOT able to tap into the software to look at and review recorded segments. The only thing I can do is tap into each individual camera and look at it in real-time.

 

The tech at Dahua said that these cameras work well with: Milestone, NUUO, and AXXON software too and they should be able to support the multi tap.

 

So, I was looking on each of their sites and their Freeware is Milestone: XProtect Go, AXXON Smart Pro, and NUUO does not seem to have freeware.

 

Has anyone used either of the 2 Freewares? How do you like them and does it support tapping in from a remote location while recording on a local PC?

 

Thanks again!

[thewireguys 3]

 

Ok so I got a hold of Dahua and asked them a few questions about there cameras... One thing the supplied software does NOT do is, if I've got all the cameras recording on a local PC (which the software would be running) then I am NOT able to tap into the software to look at and review recorded segments. The only thing I can do is tap into each individual camera and look at it in real-time.

 

I have need to hear this from the Dahua tech

[Integraoligist 0]

 

Ok so I got a hold of Dahua and asked them a few questions about there cameras... One thing the supplied software does NOT do is, if I've got all the cameras recording on a local PC (which the software would be running) then I am NOT able to tap into the software to look at and review recorded segments. The only thing I can do is tap into each individual camera and look at it in real-time.

 

I have need to hear this from the Dahua tech

What do you mean by that?

[thewireguys 3]

 

Ok so I got a hold of Dahua and asked them a few questions about there cameras... One thing the supplied software does NOT do is, if I've got all the cameras recording on a local PC (which the software would be running) then I am NOT able to tap into the software to look at and review recorded segments. The only thing I can do is tap into each individual camera and look at it in real-time.

 

I have need to hear this from the Dahua tech

What do you mean by that?

 

I simply want to here more about this from a eyesur tech. Sounds like the software is missing one of the most basic and important features of a VMS.

[Integraoligist 0]

So i take that as pretty much all software, like the 2 free ones i listed, have this feature. I copied the entire chat i had with him and i'll post is up when i get home for you to take a look at.

[Soundy 1]

Sorry, didn't know our job is to recommend solutions that advertise on this site, my apologies.

Who said it was?

 

I just never seen or used an Dahua camera but have seen/used an OpenEye CM-610, so I have to recommend what I know. What's been you direct experience with the Dahua camera?

I've been testing the 3MP box cam for a few weeks now, it holds up quite nicely beside an IQ755 (the IQ is still better in some regards, weaker in others, but runs 2.5 to 3 times the price). I just got one of the 2MP domes and haven't had a chance to put it through its paces yet, but I have high expectations based on experience with the 3MP.

[buellwinkle 0]

So, I was looking on each of their sites and their Freeware is Milestone: XProtect Go, AXXON Smart Pro, and NUUO does not seem to have freeware.

 

Where would I go to find reviews on NVR software, let me think, wait a minute, my blog. I just wrapped up a test with Xprotect Go. It works well but is a total resource hog on the computer. There maybe tweaks to optmize it but you don't get support, just forums and there's little to no activity on their forums so you have to figure it out for youself. The details are on my blog.

 

NUUO is sending me an 8 camera license to test out their software. So as soon as I get it, I'll load it up. I think the camera license is about $150ish (double that for 8 camera license) so it's not expensive.

 

Have not tried AXXON but want to, just time.

 

Also one to consider is BlueIris. It's $50 for a server, not as bad as Milestone in terms of being a resource hog and works pretty well with any browser even smartphone browsers. What happens if your camera is not supported is you can let Ken, the owner connect to the camera remotely and in a day or two he'll have it working. Just do it during your trial period so you don't have to pay if he can't get it working. It has a webserver, records on motion detect windows, all around I liked it, used it for about a year.

[Integraoligist 0]

Yes the AXXON looks good.... I like the videos on the site showing how easy it is to navigate and pull the old info. Only drawback I can see is that it limits to 1TB, but for me, using 5 cameras and recording only when motion is detected, that 1TB will probably be what... 6 months worth of footage?

 

Just dont know how much system resources this pulls.

[tomcctv 190]

hi for your budget i would look at 4 ESIP-MP2-DM1 cameras and run them on a aver nano. this will allow you to view remote .. or record on site and away (your home) connect to your cash register see what you are selling and cash amounts

 

 

and not bother about buying a licence to run this or that. for the cost of a licence its the cost of a hybrid

[buellwinkle 0]

I just got one of the 2MP domes and haven't had a chance to put it through its paces yet, but I have high expectations based on experience with the 3MP.

 

Look forward to your results. It uses the same Sony Exmor sensor on the Brickman camera I reviewed and that's a expensive camera.

[Integraoligist 0]

I just never seen or used an Dahua camera but have seen/used an OpenEye CM-610, so I have to recommend what I know. What's been you direct experience with the Dahua camera?

I've been testing the 3MP box cam for a few weeks now, it holds up quite nicely beside an IQ755 (the IQ is still better in some regards, weaker in others, but runs 2.5 to 3 times the price). I just got one of the 2MP domes and haven't had a chance to put it through its paces yet, but I have high expectations based on experience with the 3MP.

 

Have you had time to work with the new 2MP dome yet? I'd like to hear your take on it.

 

Also, what kind of upload speed should I get as a MINIMUM for the shops internet? Obviously faster is better but i've got a somewhat limited choice and would rather not drop $300 a month on internet fees

 

Thanks again!