Vivotek FD8361 some questions

[voip-ninja 0]

So, today I got my Vivotek FD8361 2MP outdoor rated fixed dome, and so far I am pretty impressed. After focusing the picture quality in daytime mode is quite good. However, I am getting really bad reflections with it in night mode, to the point that the image is unusable, any settings or tweaks to help with this? I do have the camera pointed up a fairly high amount since it is only 8' above ground level so I am concerned that possibly I am getting IR illuminator reflection back from the camera body itself.

 

The other issue is that even though I have programmed it into my Synology NAS to do surveillance recording with motion detection from the camera, I don't appear to be getting any recordings, typically does this need to be configured in-camera as well?

 

Thanks.

[Soundy 1]

As with most IR domes of this design, you need to make sure the gasket around the lens barrel is pressed solid against the bubble to block internal IR reflections.

[akelley 0]

Yes, you will need to set up motion detection in the camera settings, since you have the Synology set up to record on the camera's motion detect event.

[voip-ninja 0]

As with most IR domes of this design, you need to make sure the gasket around the lens barrel is pressed solid against the bubble to block internal IR reflections.

 

Thanks, I'm not sure if this will be possible, lI have the dome screws tightened as much as possible and the lens gasket is not making contact with the dome that I am aware of.

[Soundy 1]

Thanks, I'm not sure if this will be possible, lI have the dome screws tightened as much as possible and the lens gasket is not making contact with the dome that I am aware of.

That is exactly the problem. You may need to slide the gasket up the lens barrel a bit. Usually these things are just a rubber or foam ring that's friction-fit around the lens.

[voip-ninja 0]

Thanks, I'm not sure if this will be possible, lI have the dome screws tightened as much as possible and the lens gasket is not making contact with the dome that I am aware of.

That is exactly the problem. You may need to slide the gasket up the lens barrel a bit. Usually these things are just a rubber or foam ring that's friction-fit around the lens.

 

Ah, I see, I will take a look, thanks.

[voip-ninja 0]

Yes, you will need to set up motion detection in the camera settings, since you have the Synology set up to record on the camera's motion detect event.

 

Looking at the Vivotek advanced setup it looks like Synology enabled motion recording (motion window is labeled syno_window_1) but the motion recording thresholds might be set so that most events don't get recorded. It looks like it is set to sensitivity 90% and percentage 50% which might be why I am not getting recordings, this is a pretty large area of the screen, I will have to see what Vivotek has to say about these thresholds in the user documentation.

[voip-ninja 0]

Thanks, I'm not sure if this will be possible, lI have the dome screws tightened as much as possible and the lens gasket is not making contact with the dome that I am aware of.

That is exactly the problem. You may need to slide the gasket up the lens barrel a bit. Usually these things are just a rubber or foam ring that's friction-fit around the lens.

 

Looks like the gasket in question is a rubber gasket that has a metal "spring" on the end, but this spring looks like it's only there to keep the shape of the gasket intact, it does not allow it to be extended. The gasket pops free of the board lens a little too easily, I will have to play around with it and see what I can do to get it in there and have a tighter seal with the dome.

[voip-ninja 0]

regardless of how I position the gasket I can't seem to get a tight seal to the dome. Are there any installer tricks for dealing with situations like this? The bottom left part of the gasket appears to be tightly sealed to the dome but the rest of it seems to have a gap and repositioning over and over again hasn't dome much to straighten it out.

[Soundy 1]

The bottom left part of the gasket appears to be tightly sealed to the dome but the rest of it seems to have a gap and repositioning over and over again hasn't dome much to straighten it out.

Is the whole gimbal maybe out of position? I don't know how these things are designed, but I had a case with a Panny CW504 dome where the dome tether wire hooked the gimbal and pulled the spring-loaded camera assembly out of position when I snugged the dome down...

 

Are there any installer tricks for dealing with situations like this?

Yes: avoid built-in IR

[voip-ninja 0]

Hmm, sadly, not the answer I am looking for. The primary reason I upgraded out of my very solid Panasonic PT camera that was at this location was that I wanted something similarly unobtrusive that would provide me with decent low light performance at night. As an aside, the daylight performance is much better than the older VGA camera. I posted a sample at 50% resolution in the appropriate demo image thread.

[voip-ninja 0]

Interestingly enough, Vivotek has an entire troubleshooting article written on dealing with this issue (IR bleed through).

 

http://www.vivotek.com/support/appnote.php?appcon=19

 

I am pretty sure that my gasket for the lens is loose/dirty, so I might have to look into removing the lens board and then reseating it.

[groovyman 0]

regardless of how I position the gasket I can't seem to get a tight seal to the dome.

Yep. I ran into this the first time I bought some IR domes and never bought one again. As I mentioned in a post a couple weeks ago (viewtopic.php?p=189706#p189706) I ended up with a peephole view in order to eliminate the reflection. Had to slide the gasket over the lens and carefully mount the cover back on so it created the proper seal. It was a real pain.

 

I have a client with 4 outdoor IR bullet cams in one location. These were installed around 2004/2005 and two of them recently started to exhibit the IR reflection issue. At first I thought it was spider webs, but it's not. I'm guessing the gaskets have started to deteriorate. I'll take them down in the near future and have a look.

[Will1962 0]

Do you mind posting some pictures?

I am buying the same cameras and have only seen one other post that actually showed pictures from the FD8361.

 

Would love to see some day time / night stuff.

[voip-ninja 0]

Do you mind posting some pictures?

I am buying the same cameras and have only seen one other post that actually showed pictures from the FD8361.

 

Would love to see some day time / night stuff.

 

I posted a daytime picture at 50% resolution in the pictures thread. Still working on night mode settings, so far it's proving painful to setup.

 

Also, for some reason, the motion detector on this camera doesn't appear to be working properly... at least, when I program my Synology to do recordings with the on-camera motion recording with 90% sensitivity and 10% trigger area, I am almost never getting a recording, even if a large vehicle drives by. However, the motion recording activates every time I am up on the ladder staring at the camera from 1 foot away... go figure.

 

Not quite sure I can recommend this yet. The daytime PQ is decent, but setting the focus on these, dealing with the PITA illuminators and some other install challenges (the metal base on mine wasn't drilled out properly for the screws, I had to take it to a hardware store and have them re-tap it for me for 8/32 machine screws) makes me question if I would buy it a 2nd time.

 

On the plus side, I got it brand new for only $450, so it was hard to pass up.

 

I might be looking for something with better night time PQ (without the illuminators) for my next purchase. The Acti 7811 might be worth looking at.

 

The Samsung cameras also look very interesting, but sadly my NAS does not yet support them.

[voip-ninja 0]

Looks like my Synology NAS supports Brickcom cameras. Anyone have any experience with the FD-130NP or VD-130NP specifically? My NAS supports camera recording from these models of fixed domes.

[voip-ninja 0]

So, I've been talking with one of the US based Vivotek tech support folks (he has been really helpful, I really can't complain too much about Vivotek technical support) and he has confirmed something I have been suspicious of for a while now.

 

Specifically he writes to me that this model camera is known to have some IR reflections when the camera angle is tilted close to level with the dome.

 

So, that's that, not too much more I can do about the IR reflections problem. I will investigate possibly moving this camera to a different location once I can buy either a Brickcom VD-130NP, Vivotek FD8335H, etc, for this location as I believe both of those have newer generation IR dome gaskets that will work better at the angle I have the lens pointed.

[buellwinkle 0]

Most domes with IR LEDs rely on a rubber or foam donut to seperate the lens from the LEDs. What's unique about the ACTi TCM-7811 is that they recess the LEDs deeply into pockets and are not a ring arount the lens like most other domes.

 

As for Brickcom, check out my review on the WOB-130NP, it's likely going to be the same sensor as the VD-130NP dome.

[voip-ninja 0]

Most domes with IR LEDs rely on a rubber or foam donut to seperate the lens from the LEDs. What's unique about the ACTi TCM-7811 is that they recess the LEDs deeply into pockets and are not a ring arount the lens like most other domes.

 

As for Brickcom, check out my review on the WOB-130NP, it's likely going to be the same sensor as the VD-130NP dome.

 

I did see your review of the Brickcom bullet and appreciate you putting it together. The fixed dome version of the Brickcom that supports on camera motion detection and is outdoor rated is very high on my list but I'm just a little put off by why you have to use a high power poe mid-span to get the fan/heater support when other cameras are able to get by with just the regular poe.

 

One recommendation for future reviews is that for judging night and low light performance it might be helpful to have a location in a back yard or some other non-lit location to get a better idea of how these cameras really do in low light situations.

 

Thanks for the note on the ACTi, I was not aware of the design difference. I actually thought, from your review, that the 7811 did not have particularly good night performance and the temperature ratings on it won't cut it for me during cold evenings here in the foothills unless I'm okay with just letting it go dead several times a year when it gets below 20F outside.

[buellwinkle 0]

The IQEye camera I just reviewed goes down to -4F without a heater and colder with, uses regular PoE. Has good low light capabilities, but no built in illuminators, so you'll have to go with external illuminators if needed.

 

But here's side by side

 

ACTi TCM-7811

 

Brickcom OB-130Np

 

IQEye Alliance Pro

 

Axis P1346

 

Vivotek IP8362 (porch lights on, street lights on, better lit than my house)

[voip-ninja 0]

Thanks for the examples!

 

The TCM-7811 does look tempting as the online price has dipped to about $650. Looking at sample pictures of the 7811 camera body it looks like even though the LEDs are recessed it still has a gasket on the lens.

 

My biggest issue with the 7811 is that it does not get to a particularly low temperature for an outdoor camera. It routinely gets below 0C where I live and I don't want the camera cutting out.

 

Another interesting camera is the BrickCom VD-130NP. If powered off of a high poe injector it can operate down to -40F and draw about 25 watts. It is 1.3MP and what's really nice is that it has a motorized zoom/focus so no more fiddling with vari-focus lens adjustments.

 

Another one is the Vivotek FD8335H which has 1.3MP, WDR, operates to -10F without special poe/heater, and has a new p-iris lens.

[buellwinkle 0]

No gasket on lens on TCM -7811. Also you have the Axis P33 with Lightfinder feature and LEDs.

[voip-ninja 0]

Thanks for the information on the TCM-8311, it would be a very suitable camera for my use if it had a better temperature tolerance.

 

Right now I am leaning towards BrickCom VD-130NP which has a really outstanding "real life" demo video on the Brickcom site (I'm always suspicious of vendor videos but not much else to go on unfortunately).

 

I like the FD-8335H but from looking at detailed pictures it appears to have the same IR lens shroud that is in my FD-8361 and I already know that is problematic... there's a good chance I will move the FD-8361 to my patio where the performance is less demanding and put the Brickcom on the corner eave where the 8361 is currently.

 

Axis makes great cameras, but I'm not interested in ones that use bright LED illuminators that my neighbors would find distracting. If you are aware of any with exceptional night vision, let me know. Thanks.

[buellwinkle 0]

The P33 dome has IR illuminators, also recessed like the ACTi and doesn't rely on a foam donut for light bleed control like the Vivotek. I'm going to work on getting a demo camera This was release very recently and represents the latest technology from Axis. Typically Axis relies on midspan PoE injectors to run camera with heaters but typically they include it with the camera as they do with the P55 and Q60 speed domes.

[voip-ninja 0]

The P33 series cameras look like best-in class for sure, but, honestly they are in a completely different league price-wise, at $1000 and up for the SVGA models. The 720P model that is outdoor rated looks like it goes for about $1100 or so.

 

Basically I could get almost get two of the Brickcom cameras for the price of one of the Axis cameras and I'm not 100% convinced that the Axis is 1.5-2.0X better.

 

Would love to see a review of the 3344 though.

 

//edit. I looked at the 3344-VE and other outdoor cameras in the P33 line and they do not include IR illuminators, you must add an outboard IR illuminator ring (T90c) that looks fantastic, but costs $350 by itself and requires a secondary PoE run, which makes this a very costly option.