Vivotek FD8361 some questions

[MaxIcon 0]

Axis makes great cameras, but I'm not interested in ones that use bright LED illuminators that my neighbors would find distracting. If you are aware of any with exceptional night vision, let me know. Thanks.

 

I find that the IR on most cams isn't really very noticeable except in pitch dark. If there are streetlights, porchlights, etc, the IR glow doesn't really stand out that much unless you know where to look. Some people notice these things more than others, of course.

[voip-ninja 0]

Axis makes great cameras, but I'm not interested in ones that use bright LED illuminators that my neighbors would find distracting. If you are aware of any with exceptional night vision, let me know. Thanks.

 

I find that the IR on most cams isn't really very noticeable except in pitch dark. If there are streetlights, porchlights, etc, the IR glow doesn't really stand out that much unless you know where to look. Some people notice these things more than others, of course.

 

Thanks, I was referring to traditional non IR LED (white LED flashlight). I believe that Axis makes at least one camera like that.

 

The P33 series looks outstanding, but the price is very high, the cameras do not have on board IR LED (at least the outdoor models).

[buellwinkle 0]

Brickcom makes a very nice product, don't think you'll go wrong with them.

[voip-ninja 0]

I think that BrickCom is probably the sweet spot for the residential user who wants something that's one step up from the really entry level stuff (vivotek, etc)... I am trying to get a reseller to get me a quote on BrickCom VD-130NP and if they can match the other price on the web I found I am more than likely going to break down and order it.

 

I am very interested to see how the BrickCom stacks up with its better Sony EXMOR 1/3 CMOS compared to what is in most sub $1000 outdoor weatherized fixed dome cameras.

[Ben Miller 0]

Voip-Ninja,

 

I just realized we're using that exact camera at our office building. Granted, we're at an office, but this picture was taken just last night using it. I just pulled it from our server. Is this the kind of image you get?

 

[voip-ninja 0]

I am getting nothing even close to that. Admittedly this is a residential implementation with extremely poor night time lighting and I'm not really a fan of leaving lights on all evening... even with my coach lights lit, with the default night settings the 8631 does not have (in my opinion) particularly good night time performance and I am having trouble with halos from the IR illuminators.

 

The Brickcom VD-130NP is the "night pro" model from Brickcom, it has a 1/3 Sony EXMOR CMOS sensor so the night time performance should be a step up from the Vivotek.

 

I am probably going to order the VD-130NP, and if it out performs the FD8631 in that difficult location then I will probably move the 8631 to my rear patio where I am a little less worried about the night time performance... as a plus I have a drop ceiling in the patio roof that I can install the 8631 into which will conceal it, it will look much better than the Panasonic box PT camera that is installed there now.

[Ben Miller 0]

I've loved Brickcoms since they came to visit us here. They've got great packaging and the software is excellent. I love Vivotek as well, just because they have most options you'd want, but yeah, Brickcoms are a step up, imo.

[voip-ninja 0]

I've loved Brickcoms since they came to visit us here. They've got great packaging and the software is excellent. I love Vivotek as well, just because they have most options you'd want, but yeah, Brickcoms are a step up, imo.

 

I would love to get ahold of a demo Brickcom piece that I could put head to head against this 8361 at the same location, so if you have any contacts, shoot me a PM.

[voip-ninja 0]

OK, I finally caved in and ordered the VD-130NP Brickcom dome. I will probably have it in a couple of weeks and will put some sort of review together after I get it installed.

[SteveCA 0]

I just had a few of these cameras installed and I would not recommend them for night use. The IR illuminators are very poor. They are not flood illuminators but more like a spot. The video quality at night is inferior to some cheap analog samsung cameras I had. The spot overexposes the middle of the picture and leaves the edges very dark. Practically worthless if you are trying to ID intruders at night.

 

Daytime pictures are very good. I may be installing IR flood illuminators to see if I can get a decent picture out of these cameras. So far, I am not pleased and would suggest trying another camera.

[voip-ninja 0]

Steve, are you referring to the BrickCom or the Vivotek with your comment?

 

If the Vivotek, I agree, that the IR LEDs have more of a spotlight affect and don't light a larger area up very well at all... however, my understanding is that this is the case with pretty much all fixed domes with integrated IR.

 

This probably also explains why Axix, who is kind of the leader in a lot of ways does not even do integrated IR on their outdoor cameras and instead sells a special illuminator module (that is $350 and requires its own PoE source) for lighting a larger dark area more evenly.

 

I am cautiously optimistic that the BrickCom will perform well enough with low light that I won't even have to use the illuminators.... in which case the 8361 will be moved to my rear patio area where the illuminated area will be much much smaller (just an entry).

[SteveCA 0]

I am referring to the Vivotek fd8361. I also have the IP8362 bullets and they are not much better at night. i need separate IR illuminators, at least 3 or 4 of them... Any suggestions for a good floor IR illuminator?

[voip-ninja 0]

I am referring to the Vivotek fd8361. I also have the IP8362 bullets and they are not much better at night. i need separate IR illuminators, at least 3 or 4 of them... Any suggestions for a good floor IR illuminator?

 

I won't be doing any external illuminators so I'm probably the wrong person to ask. The biggest headache you will probably have is that the lights are going to need their own power source.

[buellwinkle 0]

Raytec makes a good well made illuminators in all sorts of sizes, even PoE illuminators if that helps with wiring. Just consider that a decent illuminator may cost nearly as much as your cameras.

[SteveCA 0]

Raytec makes a good well made illuminators in all sorts of sizes, even PoE illuminators if that helps with wiring. Just consider that a decent illuminator may cost nearly as much as your cameras.

 

Thanks for the reply. I'll look into it but suspect they cost hundreds each. The vivotek cameras have are great by day and horrible by night. Even with my porch lights on the B+W picture is crap!

[SteveCA 0]

Steve, are you referring to the BrickCom or the Vivotek with your comment?

 

If the Vivotek, I agree, that the IR LEDs have more of a spotlight affect and don't light a larger area up very well at all... however, my understanding is that this is the case with pretty much all fixed domes with integrated IR.

 

This probably also explains why Axix, who is kind of the leader in a lot of ways does not even do integrated IR on their outdoor cameras and instead sells a special illuminator module (that is $350 and requires its own PoE source) for lighting a larger dark area more evenly.

 

I am cautiously optimistic that the BrickCom will perform well enough with low light that I won't even have to use the illuminators.... in which case the 8361 will be moved to my rear patio area where the illuminated area will be much much smaller (just an entry).

 

I am referring to the Vivotek FD8361. The illumination will work okay if you zoom the camera a bit, but if you are going to use it at full wide angle, you will still get a spot effect. The biggest problem is that anything in that spot tends to be washed out and lacks detail. I cannot ID a person (in the spot at night) on my cameras. It kind of defeats the purpose of owning high resolution cameras lol...

[thewireguys 3]

 

I am referring to the Vivotek FD8361. The illumination will work okay if you zoom the camera a bit, but if you are going to use it at full wide angle, you will still get a spot effect. The biggest problem is that anything in that spot tends to be washed out and lacks detail. I cannot ID a person (in the spot at night) on my cameras. It kind of defeats the purpose of owning high resolution cameras lol...

 

 

This is why using built-in IR is useless. If you must use built in IR look for cameras that support intelligent IR if you want a useful pic.

[SteveCA 0]

Here is a night shot from my Vivotek FD8361. The detail is poor imho and the flashlight affect makes it worst.

 

Has anyone managed to get good night shots from this camera? If so, please share your settings.

 

I also have the Vivotek IP8362 bullets and have managed to get a decent night shot by playing with the exposure settings but the FD8361 has different settings and lacks the one that made a big difference (auto exposure). Apparently, these two cameras have totally different UI's

[SteveCA 0]

Here is a night shot from my Vivotek IP8362. The detail is a bit better, but still not very good imho. This is with the exposure set to auto which has a bit more detail than the default setting.

[SteveCA 0]

 

I am referring to the Vivotek FD8361. The illumination will work okay if you zoom the camera a bit, but if you are going to use it at full wide angle, you will still get a spot effect. The biggest problem is that anything in that spot tends to be washed out and lacks detail. I cannot ID a person (in the spot at night) on my cameras. It kind of defeats the purpose of owning high resolution cameras lol...

 

 

This is why using built-in IR is useless. If you must use built in IR look for cameras that support intelligent IR if you want a useful pic.

 

I have rapidly arrived at that same conclusion. For me the real question is whether these cameras can provide a good night shot using a good quality standalone IR illuminator. I've had a little better luck with the Vivotek IP8362 than I've had with the dome FD8361 by playing with the exposure settings. Have any of you had any luck with vivoteks for night use with external illuminators?

[buellwinkle 0]

Built in IR varies from manufacture to manufacturer. Don't let a bad Vivotek experience sour your experience. For example, my ACTi TCM-7811 has recessed illuminators that are angled in a way to provide even coverage, not the flashlight effect you get with Vivotek. Also the Brickcom bullet I tested had very nice wide even coverage, no spotlight effect. The reason they do this is because if they focus the light in the middle, they can claim a longer effective range for the IR lighting, in the same way when you look at Raytec illuminators, depending on the angle of the light beam, it will have different distances it covers.

 

What I do with cameras I don't like that I bought is sell them on eBay then I get what I want, like when I bought a 3MP Arecont and hated it. It will likely be better than trying to get adequate lighting for that Vivotek.

[thewireguys 3]

^^^ Those cameras do nothing to prevent overexposure of objects from the built in IR.

[SteveCA 0]

Built in IR varies from manufacture to manufacturer. Don't let a bad Vivotek experience sour your experience. For example, my ACTi TCM-7811 has recessed illuminators that are angled in a way to provide even coverage, not the flashlight effect you get with Vivotek. Also the Brickcom bullet I tested had very nice wide even coverage, no spotlight effect. The reason they do this is because if they focus the light in the middle, they can claim a longer effective range for the IR lighting, in the same way when you look at Raytec illuminators, depending on the angle of the light beam, it will have different distances it covers.

 

What I do with cameras I don't like that I bought is sell them on eBay then I get what I want, like when I bought a 3MP Arecont and hated it. It will likely be better than trying to get adequate lighting for that Vivotek.

 

Do you have a night shot in relatively dark conditions that show the night vision quality of the Brickcom bullet? I'd hate to go that route but maybe when I need to add a camera or two.