need bigger system recommendation

[Guest]

Hi all

 

We need recommendation for bigger system - I mean system with over 100-200 remote DVR (4,8 channels) with Central monitoring software allowing to manage all remote DVRs.

 

No PC solution - or rather no WIN based solution (could be on PC platform with Linux boards).

 

Very limited bandwidth so some good compression (best if possible to record locally with high quality 4 CIF - and transcoding for remote view).

 

POS integration.

 

We are looking for second league (class) solution - not first, brand names because of limited budget for this task.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[griffonsystems 0]

so you are looking for 1600 channels of recording that can be monitored from a central point? what resolution? -4CIF on all channels?, frame rate, recording time, etc do you need

 

i would recommend mpeg4 or h.264(mpeg4 v10) compression for low bandwith

 

how limited is your budget? ><100k?

[Guest]

Bandwidth is very limited - UP TO 32 kB from single DVR (4-8 cameras) - so do not ask what frame rate we want to have for remote viewing - the questions is - what we can have max?

 

Because of very limited bandwidth - I think best could be system allowing to record locally (local DVR) with biggest quality (4CIF, 3-10 FPS from each camera), making remote transmitions with much less quality/speed (bandwidth performance from hundreds remote DVRs) - and if necessary - download interesting records from local DVRs HDDs to Central Monitoring in high resolution/quality. Additionally some kind of automatic database/records recplication during night from remote DVRs to main Monitoring Center HDDs.

 

Local storage ~ 2 weeks.

 

Yes I know - h.264 is the best - but do you know systems like that? Give us names if yes – just what I asking for in this post.

[qman 0]

There are systems that are becoming available from korea, but at the cost that you are looking for, plus the amount of support that you might need, you are taking a chance. The tricky part of the POS integration, not a lot of manufacturers on the price level that you have has POS support.

[rory 0]

no budget or mid range units with h.264.

 

In any event, you will need multiple monitoring stations to cover 800-1600 cameras.

 

Only thing mid range that I can think of that does multi site is WebGate inc, but it uses Wavelet so slow over the internet, though higher quality locally.

 

To cover that many cameras, and high quality, you are looking to spend major dollars.

 

If you could get a DVR with MPEG4 and an Activex or SDk, at least you would be able to make custom remote software to view multiple DVRs in multi screen displays as you need. Besides the big brands or PC based, thats the tricky part.

 

Rory

[rory 0]

You could check out these guys, that amount of DVRs Im sure they would work out something.

 

http://www.active-tek.com/jun/HtmlPro/product1-hdr.htm

http://www.active-tek.com/jun/HtmlPro/product1-4.htm

[scottj 0]

Bandwidth is very limited - UP TO 32 kB from single DVR (4-8 cameras) - so do not ask what frame rate we want to have for remote viewing - the questions is - what we can have max?

 

and if necessary - download interesting records from local DVRs HDDs to Central Monitoring in high resolution/quality. Additionally some kind of automatic database/records recplication during night from remote DVRs to main Monitoring Center HDDs.

 

 

 

Going to be difficult finding an embedded solution that will offer this right out of the box. Bandwidth is going to be a problem area, and automatic database replication will be rare in an embedded unit.

 

scottj

[Guest]

I have found several adresses giving us chances to do it in responsible budget.

cybervision.com.tw, formosa21.com, etc - do you know names like that? Do you have any experience with them? They are from 3-4 class "league" - we are looking for second class.

[scottj 0]

formosa21 is VPON. They use embedded Linux Disk On Chip technology for their DVR's. I have a couple of them here collecting dust, but the VPON is a decent system. Effectively you are going to have a PC based system with Linux OS wihch will be your best best in my opinion for a project the magnitude of yours.

 

Softwell (another DOM company) offers the samething. I'm not sure what you mean by "3-4 league" scale?

 

scottj

[scottj 0]

Formosa21...a.k.a. Aegis Micro

 

Forgot to mention that.

 

scottj

[Guest]

By 3-4 league class I mean 3-4 class quality, support, possibilities, etc, etc, etc. I hope you know what I mean.

 

Softwell? - I know them very vell - they clamis they have POS solution - but finally - they have nothing (need some external additional PC - for database - with is not clearly specified how to setup theirs systems).

[Thomas 0]

Alright, infrastructure time. Even if you don't go cheap, you're going to pay out the rear for bandwith.

 

You'll need a T-3. Or you will need several T-1s.

 

Assuming 200 DVRs. Assuming 256 kb/s (32 Kb per dvr converted to bits, 1 fps).

 

You will have incomming data at 50 Mb/s. This assumes no TCP/IP overhead.

 

You will need some serious routing gear for a T-3. The only real players in this market are Cisco and Juniper. Expect the price tage for thier gear to be high. Expect the support contract/person to be expensive.

 

None of what I discribe is "low bandwith".

 

You will need a fat pipe and all that goes with it. I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I get three or four people a week trying this. And you're going to have a pretty constant 50 Mb/s so when you work it out you're going to get screwed on bandwith costs.

[rory 0]

Just so you know, i just quoted a client $75-100K for a 32 camera system, and you need 200?

 

I hope you have a decent budget for the cameras .. 200 cheap OEM cameras would be alot of headache when half of them dont work ..

 

Also, the remote video quality that i saw with the Vpon units were not that clear, but it was java inside a browser so the client softcould be different.

 

Also, whats a class 1 brand?

[scottj 0]

200 DVR's Rory, not cameras.....800+ minimum cameras.

 

The 32KB bandwidth is not going to cut it. You can barely get a AOL "Goodbye!" signal with that.

haha.

[rory 0]

What global location are you located in alopu?

 

Darn, sorry, thats 1000 cameras basically, yeah my bad ..

 

The Vpon looks pretty interesting though for video monitoring for the alarm company down here ... wanna send me a unit scott to test ?

 

Rory

[Thomas 0]

With four cameras per DVR your looking at 8k per frame. You will get 1 fps but 0.5 fps might be better. It's in theory possible but I wouldn't use MPEG or H.264. I would go for low resolution, low quaility MJPEG. If it's just for monitoring then all you need is:

 

White Male, Black tee-shirt, blue ford.

[scottj 0]

 

 

?? I think I saw you thumbing it on I-45 on CSPN

 

scottj

[rory 0]

i thought i saw him at that hurricane party on Galveston

[scottj 0]

yeah come to think of it, that was Thomas...I knew it!

 

But what was with him holding up that sign that said "Will do ANYTHING for Gas"

 

scottj

[Thomas 0]

Nope, my wife used to wonder why I kept a spare gas can with gas in it. Now she understands.

 

I can be accused of being lazy but I do belive in overkill for disaster planning. And if you're planning for disaster when you see it comming then you're a little too late.

[scottj 0]

very true..When the earthquake comes I will be ready. I'm taking my motorcycle and cash, the girlfriend stays (too much luggage). haha

 

Good to see all is well with you and your family Thomas.

[cctvron 0]

There is always image vault. Wavelet compression but with the IVMAX server we can view multiple dvr's remotely. I have this installed in many locations. www.image-vault.com

[qman 0]

guys, all this has to be PAL equipment.

[cctv_down_under 0]

My suggested would be webservers with Dual Layer streaming connected to hard wired sensors, in this way you can use a NVR recording and Management package but transmit at very low quality MPEG4 for bandwidth reasons.

 

With Dual Streaming you can store on the webserver (yes thats right kiddies onboard HDD) the higher quality recording and in this way only retrieve high end video upon request or actual alarm event (sensor etc).

 

These solutions are not cheap but they do allow for manageble bandwidth because even the I frames etc can be manipulated and the Data transfer can be concise, it will also allow for motion only transmit to the NVM and NVR suites.

 

Probably not within your budget but, at most points you wont need a DVR so you may actually save.

[rory 0]

Which product would you suggest ... with the onboard HDD ..

 

thanks

Rory