Which IP Camera Should I Get For A Residential Security Gate

[Rehan 0]

Hi guys,

 

I've been reading this forum for a little while (just out of curiosity) and am now in the process of setting up an automatic security gate at our home. I would like to have some sort of IP camera(s) near the gate to be able to view any person or vehicle. Ideally it would be nice to be able to see the driver and also somehow be able to get a clear image of the license plate numbers.

 

The big question mark for me is which camera(s) you guys would suggest for this. I would need them to work day/night and be pretty resilient to the elements. Also, I'd like to get as good of an image as possible and ideally wouldn't want to spend more than around $850 or so per camera.

 

I already own a Synology 1512+ NAS but am unsure as to whether or not I should use its built-in surveillance station app or go with something else. I have heard that it is pretty buggy.

 

Another issue however is that the distance to where the gate will be is approximately 1000 feet from the house. I have a pretty long driveway and the security gate will be placed closer to the end of that driveway. What would the professionals here recommend for making PoE work over such a long distance? Would I need some sort of repeater? Would a buried Cat5e even be able to handle that distance? I don't have a PoE switch yet but will be purchasing that also depending on what you guys suggest.

 

Thank you so much for reading!

[Soundy 1]

I would like to have some sort of IP camera(s) near the gate to be able to view any person or vehicle. Ideally it would be nice to be able to see the driver and also somehow be able to get a clear image of the license plate numbers.

Ideally, you're going to need two cameras for that - one down low, probably on or beside a gate post, to see the plates... the other - I'm assuming there will be a keypad or card swipe along with an intercom station - by the intercom to see in the driver's window when he rolls it down. A high-enough-resolution plate camera with a wide enough field of view would cover the windshield, but you'll never be guaranteed a clear facial shot that way, with reflections off the glass being affected by so many environmental factors.

 

The big question mark for me is which camera(s) you guys would suggest for this. I would need them to work day/night and be pretty resilient to the elements. Also, I'd like to get as good of an image as possible and ideally wouldn't want to spend more than around $850 or so per camera.

If you are indeed putting in an intercom/keypad panel, I'd look at something IP-based with its own built-in camera... like this:

 

There are numerous manufacturers of such things - the tricky part will be finding one that works with your Synology, should you decide to use that...

 

I already own a Synology 1512+ NAS but am unsure as to whether or not I should use its built-in surveillance station app or go with something else. I have heard that it is pretty buggy.

I have a DiskStation DS-412+. The Surveillance Station feature, I find, is surprisingly well-featured for what it is. I haven't used it enough to determine its "bugginess" but it would probably do for your purposes. Be sure you've upgraded to the latest DSM!

 

Another issue however is that the distance to where the gate will be is approximately 1000 feet from the house. I have a pretty long driveway and the security gate will be placed closer to the end of that driveway. What would the professionals here recommend for making PoE work over such a long distance? Would I need some sort of repeater? Would a buried Cat5e even be able to handle that distance? I don't have a PoE switch yet but will be purchasing that also depending on what you guys suggest.

*Ethernet* (not PoE) is limited to 100m/330' over UTP, so you'll definitely have to use some sort of extender - there are plenty of them out there that will let you run ethernet well over 1000m on a single twisted pair or coax. There are some that will run PoE power over that as well, but I think you'd be better off to power the switch locally.

 

I'm assuming you'll have line power (120VAC) at the gate location to operate the gate and any lighting, so my suggestion would be to place the PoE switch there - you can use that to connect your camera(s), access control and intercom (if you go with an IP-enabled intercom) and then run a single link back to the house. You might even look at ethernet-over-powerline adapters; others here have had some good success with them. Keep in mind that high and low voltage SHOULD NOT be run in the same conduit (and in most parts of the world, is not allowed to by electrical code), so if everything at the gate is IP-based, using powerline adapters would remove the need for a separate conduit.

[ssmith10pn 0]

Sounds to me like you need local power at the gate for a switch and pull a 6 strand multimode outdoor fiber back to the house.

And you don't have to worry about lightning this way.

[Rehan 0]

I would like to have some sort of IP camera(s) near the gate to be able to view any person or vehicle. Ideally it would be nice to be able to see the driver and also somehow be able to get a clear image of the license plate numbers.

Ideally, you're going to need two cameras for that - one down low, probably on or beside a gate post, to see the plates... the other - I'm assuming there will be a keypad or card swipe along with an intercom station - by the intercom to see in the driver's window when he rolls it down. A high-enough-resolution plate camera with a wide enough field of view would cover the windshield, but you'll never be guaranteed a clear facial shot that way, with reflections off the glass being affected by so many environmental factors.

 

Yes, I think you are right, I would need two cameras. For the placement of the camera that would be used to capture the person's face -- do you think it would be too easy for a driver to avoid if I placed it on the side (where the keypad/intercom) would go? Great point about the reflections through the windshield -- I had not thought of that. I'm just wondering where you would put it -- would you take the risk of having some reflections in exchange for being able to have it pointed directly in the line of travel that the person in the vehicle would be taking if they were driving up to the gate, or would you put it on the side and hope the person actually looks at it?

 

The big question mark for me is which camera(s) you guys would suggest for this. I would need them to work day/night and be pretty resilient to the elements. Also, I'd like to get as good of an image as possible and ideally wouldn't want to spend more than around $850 or so per camera.

If you are indeed putting in an intercom/keypad panel, I'd look at something IP-based with its own built-in camera... like this:

 

There are numerous manufacturers of such things - the tricky part will be finding one that works with your Synology, should you decide to use that...

 

I already own a Synology 1512+ NAS but am unsure as to whether or not I should use its built-in surveillance station app or go with something else. I have heard that it is pretty buggy.

I have a DiskStation DS-412+. The Surveillance Station feature, I find, is surprisingly well-featured for what it is. I haven't used it enough to determine its "bugginess" but it would probably do for your purposes. Be sure you've upgraded to the latest DSM!

 

Another issue however is that the distance to where the gate will be is approximately 1000 feet from the house. I have a pretty long driveway and the security gate will be placed closer to the end of that driveway. What would the professionals here recommend for making PoE work over such a long distance? Would I need some sort of repeater? Would a buried Cat5e even be able to handle that distance? I don't have a PoE switch yet but will be purchasing that also depending on what you guys suggest.

*Ethernet* (not PoE) is limited to 100m/330' over UTP, so you'll definitely have to use some sort of extender - there are plenty of them out there that will let you run ethernet well over 1000m on a single twisted pair or coax. There are some that will run PoE power over that as well, but I think you'd be better off to power the switch locally.

 

I'm assuming you'll have line power (120VAC) at the gate location to operate the gate and any lighting, so my suggestion would be to place the PoE switch there - you can use that to connect your camera(s), access control and intercom (if you go with an IP-enabled intercom) and then run a single link back to the house. You might even look at ethernet-over-powerline adapters; others here have had some good success with them. Keep in mind that high and low voltage SHOULD NOT be run in the same conduit (and in most parts of the world, is not allowed to by electrical code), so if everything at the gate is IP-based, using powerline adapters would remove the need for a separate conduit.

 

Awesome insight and advice -- THANK YOU! I am thinking of maybe even trying to do fiber optic for this distance and then converting it back to ethernet locally at the gate, and using a small switch to connect the two cameras + intercom system into it (if this is even possible with intercom systems). I have had terrible luck in the past with Powerline adapters and am a little wary of even trying to use them for a 1000' run, but if you think that might be an option I should explore also, I will def put it on the list. The main thing I'd like to do is not make my data pipe back to the house be the limiting factor in the future as newer camera technology and streaming options arrive.

 

In and around my price ($850 or so per camera), would you have any specific ones that you would recommend? Don't worry about Synology NAS compatibility btw -- I am more than happy to just use software that comes with some of the camera makers on a spare PC lying around, or even on my PC sitting in my home office.

 

Thanks so much again.

[Rehan 0]

Sounds to me like you need local power at the gate for a switch and pull a 6 strand multimode outdoor fiber back to the house.

And you don't have to worry about lightning this way.

 

 

Thank you for responding! This doesn't seem like a bad idea. I am completely new to the fiber optic game and have been reading online for a couple of hours trying to figure out the difference between different types of cable and connectors.

 

Would me having something like two of these: http://www.amazon.com/Gigabit-Ethernet-Fiber-Media-Converter/dp/B004FUUY52/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2J1IL4U6AH0XA&coliid=I3I1KJCBAO0Z1 with one on each end be what I'd want to do? What else would I need to terminate fiber optic cable and do I need 50/125 or 62.5/125?

 

Any camera suggestions? Thank you!

[ssmith10pn 0]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833995108

 

62.5

 

You will have to get someone to terminate it.

 

http://www.fiberoptics4sale.com/p/TLC-OM1-Indoor-Outdoor-Cable/M62-IO06-CRBL.html

 

They aren't cheap but they make Converters to get your dial tone over the fiber too to help prevent your gate controller from getting blown up from lighting.

[Rehan 0]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833995108

 

62.5

 

You will have to get someone to terminate it.

 

http://www.fiberoptics4sale.com/p/TLC-OM1-Indoor-Outdoor-Cable/M62-IO06-CRBL.html

 

They aren't cheap but they make Converters to get your dial tone over the fiber too to help prevent your gate controller from getting blown up from lighting.

 

Thanks for the great info! You are right on the money when you say the POTS to Fiber converters are expensive! Wow, looked up some and it seems they're all in the $800-$1400 range. That is a little cost-prohibitive, to say the least.

 

Is there an alternative? Can the gate intercom be routed via Cat5e at the gate to a switch, then that switch feed a cat5e into the ethernet-to-fiber converter, and then go back to Cat5e at the house end and go to the phone box?

 

Thanks so much for putting your time and effort into this -- it really is appreciated.

[Soundy 1]

Yes, I think you are right, I would need two cameras. For the placement of the camera that would be used to capture the person's face -- do you think it would be too easy for a driver to avoid if I placed it on the side (where the keypad/intercom) would go?

Look at it this way, the driver is going to have to roll down his window and look at the keypad/cardswipe if he's going to use that to open the gate... or to hit the intercom button if he's getting someone to buzz him in. Either way it's hard to avoid the camera, as he'll pretty much have to look straight at it to operate the system. The picture above is a good example of this, with the camera right in the same panel as the keypad and call button.

 

Great point about the reflections through the windshield -- I had not thought of that. I'm just wondering where you would put it -- would you take the risk of having some reflections in exchange for being able to have it pointed directly in the line of travel that the person in the vehicle would be taking if they were driving up to the gate, or would you put it on the side and hope the person actually looks at it?

I wouldn't worry about this camera capturing faces at all. First of all, the best position for a plate camera is down low and straight-on to the plates, although something on the gate post looking across the driveway at an angle wouldn't be too bad either. Second, no matter how much you try to position the camera to mitigate reflections, there are so many variations in angle, curvature, color and tint of windshield glass... added to lighting and weather conditions... you'll never get something that works reliably even 50% of the time.

 

Awesome insight and advice -- THANK YOU! I am thinking of maybe even trying to do fiber optic for this distance and then converting it back to ethernet locally at the gate, and using a small switch to connect the two cameras + intercom system into it (if this is even possible with intercom systems).

As I said, many intercom/access-control systems are now IP-ready, and many of those (like the one pictured) have built-in cameras... so really, you'd only be connecting two devices: intercom panel, and the plate camera. The intercom panel would generally also have the trigger output for the gate controller.

 

I have had terrible luck in the past with Powerline adapters and am a little wary of even trying to use them for a 1000' run, but if you think that might be an option I should explore also, I will def put it on the list. The main thing I'd like to do is not make my data pipe back to the house be the limiting factor in the future as newer camera technology and streaming options arrive.

I doubt you'd be looking at bandwidth of over 5-6Mbps with everything on the gate post, even if you had 3MP cameras. Powerline adapters work well *if used properly*.

 

In and around my price ($850 or so per camera), would you have any specific ones that you would recommend?

Your plate cam will depend somewhat on the lighting available... there are some designs with IR and filters (to cut headlight glare) that are designed specifically for license plate capture. Someone else here should be able to suggest something.

 

Don't worry about Synology NAS compatibility btw -- I am more than happy to just use software that comes with some of the camera makers on a spare PC lying around, or even on my PC sitting in my home office.

Problem with that is, not all cameras have bundled NVR software... and if they do, it typically only works with their cameras, meaning you wouldn't be able to have the plate cam and the keypad cam recording in the same place.

[Soundy 1]

You only need POTS support if your intercom/keypad/gate-release is going through your phone system (ie. someone buzzes, phone rings, you press "6" to open the gate). If this is just for your home, you probably wouldn't be doing that... and even if you were using POTS, you'd probably be putting the interface module in the house, not at the gate.

 

Check some of these offerings as examples: http://www.aiphone.com/products/alpha-list/detail/ja (there are several other manufacturers as well). Your keypad, camera, access trigger and intercom would all just communicate via network along with the plate camera; whether using fiber, powerline, or ethernet extenders, that would transmit to the back end, then connect into the intercom base unit, which would then tie into the POTS if you need that function.

[Rehan 0]

You only need POTS support if your intercom/keypad/gate-release is going through your phone system (ie. someone buzzes, phone rings, you press "6" to open the gate). If this is just for your home, you probably wouldn't be doing that... and even if you were using POTS, you'd probably be putting the interface module in the house, not at the gate.

 

Check some of these offerings as examples: http://www.aiphone.com/products/alpha-list/detail/ja (there are several other manufacturers as well). Your keypad, camera, access trigger and intercom would all just communicate via network along with the plate camera; whether using fiber, powerline, or ethernet extenders, that would transmit to the back end, then connect into the intercom base unit, which would then tie into the POTS if you need that function.

 

Thank you so much for explaining that!

[Rehan 0]

Soundy,

 

After reading through that link you sent me and looking at a few others, I'm wondering which route you would take.

 

Would you use one of these all-in-one video call+intercom boxes or would you stick with a more traditional voice call only intercom but have a separate camera mounted there near the intercom station?

 

I'm wondering if the intercom boxes that have camera functionality would result in a cheaper, lower quality camera as compared to if I just did my own camera setup in addition to the regular intercom box. Also, as you had mentioned, that way I could choose cameras that all record to one location (my Synology NAS or somewhere else).

 

I'm sure the videocom setups probably look much nicer and feel more integrated, but in your opinion is it worth the tradeoff in terms of image quality and software/recording flexibility? Or is there really not much of a tradeoff and I've gotten it all wrong (which is always very likely in my case)?

 

Thanks again.

[thewireguys 3]

Here is another all IP intercom option for you.. The system supports VOIP/SIP so you can use VOIP phones. And the system should work with your Synology NVR Mobotix is on the supported list.

 

http://www.mobotix.com/eng_US/content/view/full/66936

[Soundy 1]

^There you go. If Mobotix has something suited to a license-plate cam, you're good to go.

 

All in all, I'd go with the integrated camera unless there was a very specific need to do otherwise. Again, having the camera right there by the keypad and call button helps assure that the subject looks at it at least once, and it's going to be at or near face level in most instances. At that distance, super-high quality isn't really a big concern.

[ssmith10pn 0]

The reason I was mentioning Pots is because 99% of the gate operators out there are Door King.

http://www.doorking.com/pages/home.php

 

Door King has the option of either using a dedicated phone to call the house or in line with your existing Phone line.

[Soundy 1]

The reason I was mentioning Pots is because 99% of the gate operators out there are Door King.

http://www.doorking.com/pages/home.php

 

Door King has the option of either using a dedicated phone to call the house or in line with your existing Phone line.

Yeah, but he's starting from scratch; there's no existing gate to interface with, and no need to tie it to the phone system.

[dsheli 0]

Since you have to buy a POE switch why not get a Netgear GS110TP, it will power you cameras and they have a gigabit fiber port built in. You can put one of these at your gate then use a media converter at the house. Or just get two and you will have POE back at the house if you decide to get any more cameras. I think they are going for about $150 on ebay.

David

http://www.netgear.com/business/products/switches/smart-switches/smart-switches/GS110TP.aspx

[ssmith10pn 0]

The reason I was mentioning Pots is because 99% of the gate operators out there are Door King.

http://www.doorking.com/pages/home.php

 

Door King has the option of either using a dedicated phone to call the house or in line with your existing Phone line.

Yeah, but he's starting from scratch; there's no existing gate to interface with, and no need to tie it to the phone system.

 

How is he going to open it or close it remotely if he's out of town and a delivery needs to get it?

What if he's in a different room or in bed when someone calls the gate?

 

If it has a phone line you can program the gate to call your house or your cell phone. Then you can open the gate by hitting 9 on the phone.

[Rehan 0]

Thanks for the continuous information guys!

 

I definitely would like the ability to open/close the gate via a telephone handset inside the house or from a remote location via a phone call.

[Soundy 1]

The reason I was mentioning Pots is because 99% of the gate operators out there are Door King.

http://www.doorking.com/pages/home.php

 

Door King has the option of either using a dedicated phone to call the house or in line with your existing Phone line.

Yeah, but he's starting from scratch; there's no existing gate to interface with, and no need to tie it to the phone system.

 

How is he going to open it or close it remotely if he's out of town and a delivery needs to get it?

What if he's in a different room or in bed when someone calls the gate?

Well that's the beauty of a network-based system, isn't it? Get something that uses a smartphone app and it doesn't matter where in the house OR the world you are.

 

If it has a phone line you can program the gate to call your house or your cell phone. Then you can open the gate by hitting 9 on the phone.

Of course, you assume the house even had POTS... many don't, now. At least a quarter of my friends no longer have landlines and haven't for several years.

 

At home, we maintain a VoIP-based landline, but we've been discussing getting rid of it for years, as my wife, son and I all have our own cell phones - only reason we still have it is because it's included in our internet/cable bundle.

[Rehan 0]

Soundy you make some good points.

 

The only worry I have is about how reliable the network based system would be outside of the home. I see that the Mobotix video-intercom still doesn't have a proper iPhone or iPad app, about 2.5 years after they promised one. It is a bit misleading since their promotional material shows an iPhone and iPad being used to manage incoming calls from visitors.

 

The house definitely still has a POTS system but I too have been thinking about going VOIP in the near future. The only reason I haven't yet is because I'm not sure if the latency of my internet connection would be low enough to handle VOIP reliably and not sure if I could ditch the phone line completely due to having to fax from home and having the alarm system tied into the POTS.