Help me pick a camera and mounting location - diagram inside

[hyfly 0]

Hi all. I'm new to the IP camera world and have been reading here and elsewhere trying to come up to speed. I bought a cheap foscam knockoff to play around with and now I'm ready to invest in my first decent camera.

 

My goal is to add surveillance to my home by starting with 1 camera and upgrading to more in the future. Here is a quick sketch of my home's footprint (obviously not to scale so ignore the numbers).

 

I'm trying to choose between location #1 or #2 for my first camera. Location #1 is completely covered porch, while location #2 would have to be mounted under an eave with about 12" of space (half gutter). A camera mounted in location #1 would not be able to view the whole courtyard, but has the best entry view. A camera mounted in location #2 would have a better view of everything, except the actual entry.

 

Any location advice would be appreciated, keeping in mind an upgrade plan for the future.

 

As for the camera, I'd like it to be POE, motion detection recording to a NAS, and have a good enough resolution to make a decent facial recognition while someone is approaching. As far as cost, I'd like to stay under $500 for camera + mount + POE switch.

 

Before posting, I was leaning toward Location #1 and the Acti 1111. Would this work for me?

 

There a couple other things I am not sure if I should be concerned about or not.

1. Location #1 is a completely covered overhang so there are times of the day where it is completely shaded while the rest of the courtyard is in bright sun. With my current foscam pointing through the window, this wreaks havoc on making out faces as all you get is a silhouette. Will I have this issue with all cameras?

 

2. Lens - variable lens seems like a waste for a set it and forget it surveillance camera. The Acti 1111 has a 4.2mm fixed, which seems to be the best fit for my situation, but I'm not clear on how 4.2mm translates to focus distance.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[Soundy 1]

Actually, a better place for capturing faces, I think, would be the choke point at the entrance to the courtyard. Tight shot on that little gap from location #2 and you get everyone coming into the area. Second wide shot of the courtyard to capture general activity, and you're good to go.

 

Problem with location #1 is that if someone comes into the courtyard and does some damage (are there windows around the courtyard someone could break into?) then leaves again without ever approaching the door, you'll never get that identifying shot.

[hyfly 0]

Thanks for the reply.

 

When you say tight shot the choke point, I assume you mean focus the camera shot at that point. To then obtain a wide shot of the courtyard, I would need a 2nd camera, is that correct?

 

There are windows in the courtyard, so yes, from location #1, I would not be able to see all of them. Also from location #1, my camera would likely be focused at they entry and so although I would have clear shot to the choke point, I am assuming I would not get a focused shot.

 

From location #2, my concern is that if they run through the choke point (it's currently open, no gate) then I will only get a blurry image without any coverage at the front door.

 

As far as distances, from location #1 to choke point it is around 32ft. From location #2 to choke point it is around 28ft. If my goal was to focus a tight shot on the choke point, what kind of lens would I need to look for?

[Soundy 1]

Thanks for the reply.

 

When you say tight shot the choke point, I assume you mean focus the camera shot at that point. To then obtain a wide shot of the courtyard, I would need a 2nd camera, is that correct?

Bingo!

 

There are windows in the courtyard, so yes, from location #1, I would not be able to see all of them. Also from location #1, my camera would likely be focused at they entry and so although I would have clear shot to the choke point, I am assuming I would not get a focused shot.

Probably not as clear as it could be.

 

From location #2, my concern is that if they run through the choke point (it's currently open, no gate) then I will only get a blurry image without any coverage at the front door.

A *good* camera won't give you a blurry image when someone is running. That's generally called motion blur, and it's caused by a too-slow shutter on the camera. Slow shutters are usually a side effect of a camera trying to compensate for otherwise-poor low-light response.

 

Plus, blur, if DOES happen, tends to be worse with the subject moving across the field of view... with a camera at point #2, most subjects are probably going to be moving more toward it.

 

As far as distances, from location #1 to choke point it is around 32ft. From location #2 to choke point it is around 28ft. If my goal was to focus a tight shot on the choke point, what kind of lens would I need to look for?

Your drawing shows that wall between #1 and the choke point at 11'?? I'd think the other distance would be a little longer, being a diagonal.

 

In any case, exact lens length will also depend on the width of the area you need to capture, but for the sake of calculation, let's assume the camera is at point #2, distance is 28', and the gap is 6' wide. On a camera with a 1/3" sensor, according to this caluclator: http://cctvlenscalculator.com/ - you'd need a lens about 21mm to JUST cover that gap. A 3-33mm varifocal lens is relatively common and would allow you to fine-tune the coverage to the exact fit you need.

[hyfly 0]

Sorry for the confusion on the diagram measurements. I just eyeballed it last night when I drew it up and couldn't get the dimensions to be hidden. Please disregard all the measurements. I can redo if we need a more accurate diagram.

 

Distance from #1 to choke = 32ft

Height of camera mounting #1 = 9-11ft

Distance from #2 to choke = 28ft

Height of camera mounting #2 = 9ft

Width of choke = 7ft

 

When I plug those numbers into your calculator, I get a focal length of 19.1mm and tilt of 11.5 deg.

 

I guess the Acti 1111 will not work for this purpose. Can you recommend a camera that would?

 

I've been ignoring dome cameras up to this point, but for location #2, maybe I should consider a dome. There is about 7 inches of stucco overhang I can mount it to with another 5 inches of gutter to help shade it. Hopefully that is enough width. If I get a dome, then I won't have to get a mounting bracket, is that right? If so, I could spend a little more on the camera itself.

[Soundy 1]

The tricky part with a dome is that they don't typically have space for a long lens - up to about 12-13mm is the biggest you'll typically find in a dome. The one exception I know of is a Pentax 15-50mm lens that will fit in a Panasonic WV-CW484/504 dome. However, if you used something with a small fixed lens, like the Dahua dome, it SHOULD be possible to fit a longer fixed lens - I know I have some 16mm lenses for 1/4" analog board cameras, something like that in a 1/2.7" MP version would do the trick, as long as it's not physically too long to fit in the dome.

[hyfly 0]

If I shift location #2 to the left, I can get the distance down to about 23-24ft, which puts me at about 15-16mm need. Can you give me an idea if I got a 13mm lens and maxed it out, how large is that sweet spot for facial recognition? At 23ft will it be blurry, then at 20 ft will it be clear?

 

The whole world of switching camera lenses is definitely over my head. Can I simply buy a camera with good internals, like an Acti 1111, swap out to a desired fixed lens size of my choice? Are all lenses just interchangeable like that?

 

As far as bullets go, have you seen one that can be mounted from the ceiling vs the wall? If a bullet is 7" long, what is the most shallow mount available?

 

Thanks for your help on this.

[hyfly 0]

So I've been searching for various camera options, and none that I've seen around the $400 mark have a lens large enough to tight shot that 7ft gap. I'm also not clear on how easy it is to swap lenses or what is compatible with what.

 

Can anyone recommend a camera that might work for me? Ideal would be shallow mount bullet or dome that can take a 16-19mm lens.

 

If I backed out the image to a width that a 13mm lens will cover, would I still be able to make out faces at say 720p?

[Soundy 1]

So I've been searching for various camera options, and none that I've seen around the $400 mark have a lens large enough to tight shot that 7ft gap. I'm also not clear on how easy it is to swap lenses or what is compatible with what.

It'll be tricky with a dome, unless you use one that has a C/CS lens mount. The Panasonics I mentioned do, as do at least some Areconts I've used... but none of those are in range. Dahua has a 3MP box camera that runs $400, those are a lot easier to find longer lenses for, but then you need an environmental housing for it.

 

Keep in mind that with the higher resolution of a MP camera, you don't need to get the shot as tight, because you have more detail to work with in the first place.