Elevator

[qman 0]

I have to install a camera in 2 elevators in a building that is 10 stories high. Never have done this before so any input would be appreciated.

[griffonsystems 0]

find out who put the elevator in - most of the time it is the same company that is maintaining it. find out from them if they put additional wires in the wire harness, they usually put a few utp (cat5, 3) cables that you can use to run your camera

[qman 0]

Notyhing there, and no, no CAT 5. Any other suggestions?

[iwatchlive 0]

What about wireless?

[SeanMort 0]

We've done a few of these and we use RG174 cable for the job because it's thinner and lighter, and lasts longer than stranded centre RG59. The cable still needs to be replaced about every two years though. Haven't done a 10 story building yet, max was 6 stories. The wireless may work depending on frequency (1.2Ghz may be bad for reflections). Otherwise try IP & WiFi these two cams on a stream to another box.

[iwatchlive 0]

The wireless may work depending on frequency (1.2Ghz may be bad for reflections). What are relfections and why not us 900Mhz it is most certainly line of site. inside the shaft. I would run the antenna on the bottom or side of the lift or top, depending on where your home run is. Also, you could get lucky and alreay have a pair of extra wires or leads, the you could try a balun for. We do this ro avoid trenching whenever there is a gate arm operator close by inside gated communities.

 

Simple fix if you can get to the wiring bus on the front of the elevator (behind the push buttons). Usually a snake eyes security screw is used and you can have access to the entire wire panel to search for a line to "tone"

out!

[rory 0]

all that metal in the elevator and steel in the concrete of the 10 storey building, should be fun with wireless ))))

[SeanMort 0]

The reflections I was talking about are the transmitted waves being reflected off the metal in the lift shaft causing ghosting similar to a badly aligned TV antenna. 2.4Ghz being a smaller wavelength may reduce this potential problem but it's a bit of a thumbsuck as you won't know if it will work until it's installed. Even then you may get varying results at each lift level. I've seen this kind of problem in a mine shaft and the way we got around that was to use a leaky feeder cable system for the cams. But this gear was expensive. Check out the link below and see what these things cost in your country:

 

http://www.rollanet.org/~jim/work.html

 

What I meant about the IP thing was to use IP cams (or a codec such as NVT) in the lifts linked to a 802.11G wireless gateway and stream the signals out digitally, or use digital microwave.

[UMDRanger 0]

Is there a way to put cables in the harness? Or zip-tie them to it? Probably not code, but thought I'd point out the obvious.

[griffonsystems 0]

that's exactly what you do. why mess with wireless that probably wont be reliable if you can just run a line of coax or utp in the harness and term ur cameras..

 

if it were me i would just call the elevator maintenance guys or anyone in the area and tell them what you want to do and they will show you how to access the harness and get your needed wires in

[Jasper 0]

I would not even mess around with any of those 2.4GHz wireless cameras, because I have and they suck. You get interference from the new telephones that are using that same frequency. Same problem with the new “Gâ€

[SeanMort 0]

Putting a transmitter too close to the receiver "crushes" the receiver front-end circuit. I agree with the wireless not being appropriate. I also hate the darn things although they are neccessary in some places. With using cable though there is always the concern about induced voltage/inteference entering the coax whenever the lift gets juiced up for the next floor. We have seen this slightly on the lifts we have done. I've never done this before in a lift but what about using stranded CAT5 and baluns like the ones GE makes ? They work great in standard installations and show less interference than coax when run against power. Perhaps cable is the best way to go and get done with it.

[qman 0]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I have come up with 2 options. I'm not using wireless since the whole damm thing is metal, and it's an apartent building. The elevator people said to me "hell no", that they won't comein and help out with the wiring. What I think that I am going to do is either use direct burial grade CAT5 with balums, and power the cams localy on the elevators, or use RG59, and ziptie into the cable that goes up and down the elevator.

 

Thanks for all the suggestion.

[Marcusl 0]

You may want to check for your area, but the wire that goes into an elevator shaft should be plenum wire if memory serves. I have heard some horror stories of elevator guys (who were jerks) taking any wiring they see that wasn't plenum and just cutting it out when they were servicing/inspecting the elevator. This happened to the company I work for when we did some access control installations for an elevator a few years before I worked here. So I would definitely check into that. Also, to get your best answer about how to wire the cam in, you may want to check with another elevator service/inspection company to see what they would say on how to do it properly or how much they would charge to do it.

 

-Marcus

[nextan 0]

Any update from qman on the project?

 

I am working on a project for 2 x 25-storey apartment blocks with 3 elevators each. Have confirmed that there is no spare cable in the elevator shafts.

 

Learnt from some SIs that to implement cameras in existing elevators can be a very expensive affair, as the elevator company need to be engaged for the cabling job, and that requires engineernig effort as well as safety certification and these can be very costly.

 

I have tried IP video systems with WIFI connectivity with some success. In an outdoor environment, there is no problem of sending IP video over few hundred meters with WIFI (Wireless-G) solution.

 

The height of the apartment block is about 100 meters, but as some of you have mentioned, multipath effect (radio wave reflection) may affect the quality of transmission

 

there are 2 elevator shafts in each apartment, 1 for 2 elevators side by side, the other for the 3rd elevator.

 

Intend to carry out a trial soon, with IP based + Wireless-G solution.

[robzee67 0]

before you open those elevator...call the elevator company and ask them what to do...here in florida, you have to be certified/licensed to set foot,touch or look into the elevator shaft...all elevator are govern by the state and major fine/liability will land on your lap if anything goes or not wrong. I put 3 cameras in 3 elevators 23 floors condo using UTP and passive baluns...works great!