The ethics behind Covert camera installations.

[Numb-nuts 1]

In the past I have been asked to install covert cameras in bedrooms, in WCs in coffee areas where staff take their breaks and in cloakroom areas aswell as in the private office of various levels of staff.

 

I have had to consider the ethical aspect of these sometimes and it's been quite difficult to determine who has a legoitimate purpose to have coverts installed.

 

I once had a landlord that asked me to install a system and have a covert camera in all of his student apartments.

I told him I would have to consider this request which I eventually turned down on the basis that these apartments

were a place where a person would normally expect to have privacy and that installing cameras was a breach of that

right to privacy. It made me sick to turn down the work as I know that a competitor did the job for him.

 

I decided after that, that my policy would be that such clients were only legitimately allowed to install cameras in common areas alike kitchen, hallways and shared lounges and parking areas but excluding bathrooms, and apartments.

If a client has a particular problem with recent stock shortages and has an idea where the goods are going missing, I urge them to place a camera, only with consultation of the police and that the camera is temporary. This excludes cash handling areas, valuable stocks like jewelry etc, and tills.

 

It would be interesting to hear your ethics regarding covert cameras.

[fa chris 0]

If it's in an apartment why would it need to be covert? It's voyeurism and sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

I wouldn't put a normal camera in a bathroom, much less a covert one.

[Birdman Adam 0]

Wow, that sounds like a hard aspect of the job. Could potentially come back to bite if you make a wrong decision!

 

At first thought I would check whether they own the property and then whether privacy is expected in that area. If the answer is yes and then no, it is OK to put a camera there. But still - hard decisions...

 

I suppose the property owners should err on the side of caution and advertise the cameras, either by making them stand out or placing signage? All it would take is one mad employee who thinks they shouldn't be watched in the back to get you in trouble!

 

I wonder if there is law that more clearly draws a line. I would love to know all about it.

[Numb-nuts 1]

If it's in an apartment why would it need to be covert? It's voyeurism and sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

I wouldn't put a normal camera in a bathroom, much less a covert one.

 

I absolutely agree with that. I should have threatened to report him to police.

 

Anyway I don't do anything dodgy and that was a long time gone now.

[Soundy 1]

Never mind ethical, I'd be worried about what's legal. On this side of the pond, putting a camera anywhere one would have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" - such as a washroom, change room, bedroom, etc. - IS simply illegal, let alone unethical. The person installing the camera could be charged, as well as the person who commissioned the installation.

 

Screw the competitor - best to employ CYA practices.

[tomcctv 190]

covert in the UK needs a licence a lot of paperwork a trip to the court to see a judge and then can only be in place for a max time decided by the courts.

 

and hard to get. stick to the law. uk law installer is Responsible.

[ssnapier 0]

The same goes for audio, just last week I had a client call me for a trouble call and while fixing his issue I discovered that he had enabled audio recording on ALL of his cameras, even though I specifically refused to do it and explained the legal issues involved to him when the cameras went in.

 

I went back and disabled them all, because that is what the contract says and I will be damned if I let him screw me. I then added a second admin account and changed my passwords so that if he decides to change them back again I will have a log entry to prove that it wasn't me or any of my people.

[school security 0]

We use covert systems as well. Typically in cases of employee theft, but we have to have solid evidence that a crime is actually occuring. Then there is the whole "reasonable expectation of privacy". Bathrooms, locker rooms, etc.

 

Usually my video takes the fight away from the employee being charged, and they resign on the spot!

[Sawbones 0]

Seriously... who would actually install one in a bathroom?

 

That's creepy/pervert/peeping-tom territory.

[Kawboy12R 0]

We had an employee who would empty the excess money in the till periodically, stick the money in an envelope, use the washroom, and THEN give the envelope to the supervisor. She was occasionally seen adjusting her bra as she left the washroom with the money envelope. Grounds to consider putting a camera in the employee washroom?

[Soundy 1]

Seriously... who would actually install one in a bathroom?

 

That's creepy/pervert/peeping-tom territory.

Sometimes when we're doing an install in a retail site or something, if the staff there are cool, I'll crack a joke like, "Yeah, next we're putting the cams in the women's washrooms." Almost invariably, they respond with, "Ooooh, yeah, I wanna see that!"

 

Like... REALLY dude?! THINK about it - you REALLY want to see that???

[groovyman 0]

We had an employee who would empty the excess money in the till periodically, stick the money in an envelope, use the washroom, and THEN give the envelope to the supervisor. She was occasionally seen adjusting her bra as she left the washroom with the money envelope. Grounds to consider putting a camera in the employee washroom?

I've caught many people stealing money over the years. Some of the women take the bills and put it down their shirts. My running joke is "they come in as a B cup and leave as a C"